Recommitted Tim Taranto

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PMBangers said:
Are you seriously saying Greenwood and Lyons have a similar outside ability as Taranto? I can't take that seriously, sorry. Lyons and Greenwood are exactly what you are trying to say Taranto is, fairly one dimensional inside stoppage players. It screams "I haven't watched much Taranto" to suggest that's all he is
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Well I have, vs Taranto (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...2=25&type=A&pid1=3504&pid2=6333&fid1=S&fid2=S)

Lyons has:
- better disposal efficiency
- fewer clangers
- fewer turnovers
- higher metres gained
- more score involvements
- more goal assists
- more inside 50s

Lyons dominates Taranto inside and out in every category no?
 

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Gresh_Magic said:
Will be a Saint in 2021.

Giants want Geary to replace Heater down back seeing as both players are cooked anyway. Fair deal if you ask me.
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The Giants need a ruckman so a straight swap for Ryan Abbott should get it done.
 
Good young player, strong, productive and durable. But while his pace is good, it's definitely not a clear strength or anything. His kicking and decision making have also looked very shaky.

With Jones and Steele the other primary inside mids, wouldn't getting Taranto create another Melbourne situation (Oliver, Viney, Petracca, Brayshaw)?

#4 in clangers per game and #7 in turnsover per game with the lowest disposal efficiency out of ALL midfielders to play 10+ games in 2019 at 59.59%. Very few players have been more wasteful and counterproductive than Taranto. FYI he has the traditional turnover merchants (Treloar, Adams) beat at handing the ball directly to opposition.
 
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Prochard123 said:
Very good young player, strong, productive and durable. But while his pace is good, it's definitely not a clear strength or anything. His kicking and decision making have also looked very shaky.

With Jones and Steele the other primary inside mids, wouldn't getting Taranto create another Melbourne situation (Oliver, Viney, Petracca, Brayshaw)?

#4 in average clangers a game in the AFL in 2019 (4.77), with close to 3.5 turnovers a game.
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I feel like the midfield situation at Melbourne is a false narrative. Their forwardline is trash. Their midfield is quality.
 
Ducky Tie said:
I feel like the midfield situation at Melbourne is a false narrative. Their forwardline is trash. Their midfield is quality.
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Potentially, but with unacceptable clanger and turnover numbers, and probably the worst kick/lowest disposal efficiency in the game (2x seasons with less than 60% DE), he's definitely not one I'd target myself.

Caldwell on the other hand I think presents much better value. You will get him at close to 50% of Taranto's salary, will probably cost a 2nd round pick, and is so much more damaging than Taranto despite being a younger player.
 
Prochard123 said:
Potentially, but with unacceptable clanger and turnover numbers, and probably the worst kick/lowest disposal efficiency in the game (2x seasons with less than 60% DE), he's definitely not one I'd target myself.

Caldwell on the other hand I think presents much better value. You will get him at close to 50% of Taranto's salary, will probably cost a 2nd round pick, and is so much more damaging than Taranto despite being a younger player.
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It sounds like we’ve been having a crack at Caldwell too, but I don’t see how you can say that he’s much more damaging than Taranto at this stage. Caldwell hasn’t actually done all that much yet. He might develop into a good player, but it’s not guaranteed. Taranto has a best and fairest in a team that made a grand final. Has best on ground games in finals. At 22, he could still improve from here as well.
 
Prochard123 said:
Potentially, but with unacceptable clanger and turnover numbers, and probably the worst kick/lowest disposal efficiency in the game (2x seasons with less than 60% DE), he's definitely not one I'd target myself.

Caldwell on the other hand I think presents much better value. You will get him at close to 50% of Taranto's salary, will probably cost a 2nd round pick, and is so much more damaging than Taranto despite being a younger player.
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I checked and his kick efficiency has been fairly low (around 48% in 2018/2019 and even slightly lower this year). To compare, Petracca is at 53% this year. Treloar between 48-55% in the last 4 seasons. Parker in the 46-56% range for years. Bont was 53% this year (although has been closer to ~60 in prior years). T. Kelly 54% this year. Cripps 52-54% the last 2 seasons.

You’re right that his kicking efficiency isn’t great, however plenty of the games best mids are only marginally ahead. Also worth noting... Taranto kicks a LOT despite his low efficiency.

(Using 2019 stats for larger sample size)
Taranto - 721 disposals (431 kicks / 290 handballs) + 141 kicks over the course of last season. Most inside mids kick slightly more, break even, or even handball more than they kick, but Taranto’s discrepancy is pretty huge. So the simple fact that he’s kicking so much would drag down his overall DE% in comparison to other mids despite his actual kick efficiency % only being ~4-5% below.

Wonder if it’s game plan or role related that his kick/hb differential is so high. If he’s put into a midfield and paired with Steele as the main inside clearance bulls focusing on dishing to Hill, Billings, Hannebery (GWS lacking these sorts of polished outside runners besides Whitfield who seems to play more from the back half rather than midfield) etc maybe we’d start to see a more normal k/hb ratio on show and less problems with his kick efficiency, but this is just theoretical.
 

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General Giant said:
Considering where those picks would end up, I would.
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TigerTime88 said:
That's quite clearly not going to get it done.

Was a top 3 pick who has vetted that form at AFL level.
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Fair enough, being contracted only adds to the value.

Just looking over the Treloar and Shiel deals where two first round picks where given to the Giants, a second round pick was given back in both circumstances.

Although they both initially involved better picks in #7 and #9 where the Saints pick wouldn't be until at least #11 this year the return of a second pick makes that of a similar worth.

Say St Kilda plays finals again next year and say wins one you could be looking at something like picks #11 & #13 (future). The combination of those two lands basically bang on the worth of pick two on the points value. Obviously that system isn't bulletproof but I think it shows that isn't a massively unrealistic offer.

All hypothetical.
 
He's worth a top 5 pick and a late first, admittedly did have a down year, after coming fresh into the best 22 off a shoulder reco don't think anyone is going to deny he progressively worked into it this year.
Honestly because of the amount of inside mids we have I can see us entertaining the trade, would hope we ask about a good player from them that plays a position we need more of, Marshall or Clark would be two in particular I'd ask about
 
PMBangers said:
He's worth a top 5 pick and a late first, admittedly did have a down year, after coming fresh into the best 22 off a shoulder reco don't think anyone is going to deny he progressively worked into it this year.
Honestly because of the amount of inside mids we have I can see us entertaining the trade, would hope we ask about a good player from them that plays a position we need more of, Marshall or Clark would be two in particular I'd ask about
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Why would you let him go should be the question.
 
pulpdriver said:
Why would you let him go should be the question.
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If a player legitimately wants a trade we don't usually stand in the way, no harm in having discussions and seeing what we could get
 
PMBangers said:
I'm not suggesting we trade him at a loss, read what I said again
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I wasn't suggesting you'd be trading him at a loss, more that the players you had traded weren't at a loss. Only way to trade Taranto is at a loss.
That'd be breaking history.
 
pulpdriver said:
Why would you let him go should be the question.
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They are stacked in the midfield so could let him go without it impacting them that much - Kelly, Coniglio, Hopper, Green, Ward, Caldwell is going to stay so they will want to get games into him. Plus potentially De Boar if they want to tag someone.

Does taking Taranto out of that mix really hurt their midfield that much when they have so many top line players to still rotate through there?

Plus with the apparent salary cap issues, it would clear some space to use the picks they would get in the trade to bring in someone who would fix one of their weaknesses.
 
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