Time for Hartigan to be dropped

[John Who]

We just look so much more composed and versatile without Hartigan. More options up our sleeves. Tougher all round.

I just hope hartigans unfortunate injury opens don pykes eyes to the options we have in front of us. And they don't ALL have to revolve around a mediocre, lack lustre 27 yr old that fails under pressure.

Mick you already got what you wanted - Hartigan has already been dropped! Dropped due to injury!
But on a serious note, Hartigan does make some errors, but he's one of our strongest defenders and a relatively agile one. Not sure why you woudn't be a bit more positive about this bloke. He also had some interrupted weeks off from injury last year too, so it's hard to properly gauge his peak potential at this stage.

 

[mick500]

He also had some interrupted weeks off from injury last year too, so it's hard to properly gauge his peak potential at this stage.

Interestingly enough that was the same period we galvernised as a group and started looking tougher, around round 13 I believe it was. Seriously. We improved out of sight the moment he was gone.

He's 27, we know his peak potential, we know his weaknesses, yet we still persist with him. Insanity.

 

[Elite Crow]

It's all Hartigan is asked to do. And he can't even do that.

Is it? That’s what the coaches told you?

I wonder if that was the instruction the coaches told him when he smashed Robbie Gray.

You harp on about versatility and yet Hartigan is the only one between he and Otten who can play on different size forwards.

 

[mick500]

You harp on about versatility and yet Hartigan is the only one between he and Otten who can play on different size forwards.

I beg to differ. Otten can handle any forward Hartigan can, and he can go forward. Hartigan can't. Or he could, but he's no good at it.

 

[Elite Crow]

I beg to differ. Otten can handle any forward Hartigan can, and he can go forward. Hartigan can't. Or he could, but he's no good at it.

Otten could play on Robbie Gray? You think Otten has that mobility? Can you tell me what number a Otten is please?

As for going forward, he is behind so many of our forwards that he will only get a game up there in case of major injuries. He’s not switched up there to win us a game.

You are talking nonsense, the fact you keep on repeating it to keep your thread alive doesn’t put you in a good light.

 

[Bicks]

We just look so much more composed and versatile without Hartigan. More options up our sleeves. Tougher all round.

I just hope hartigans unfortunate injury opens don pykes eyes to the options we have in front of us. And they don't ALL have to revolve around a mediocre, lack lustre 27 yr old that fails under pressure.

 

[mick500]

The stats speak for themselves. Sydney kicked 6 goals in the first half with Hartigan playing, and 4 in the 2nd half when we were "a man down". No replacement, just free of Hartigan.

Since then without Hartigan we have conceded 62 and 70 points respectively. So a total of 132 against.

The 2 previous games before that we conceded 106 and 55 respectively. So a total of 161. So that's a 5 goal worse team with Hartigan.

The 2 games before that we conceded 82 and 99 respectively. So a total of 181. That's a 49 point or 8 goal worse team with Hartigan.

So on average we are a 6 and a half goal worse side with Hartigan.

But let's ignore stats and remember that 1 glorious day where Hartigan beat Gray . Oh how wondrous it was.

 

[70lethal]

You dont take into account we played the bottom side?
Your logic says Sloane is crap because we won 3 games without him and only 2 and 2 with him.
Otten is so slow. Harry Mckay a 200cm 3rd gamer made him look slow.
Not overly confident in Hartigan but hes a 100% better option than Otten.
This position is our weakest link. But to suggest Otten is a better solution is delusional

 

[mick500]

You dont take into account we played the bottom side?

I can only base it on what's happened. You going to ignore Collingwood scored 106 and essendon scored 99 against us with Hartigan? Hardly 2 top teams.

If anyone wants to accept the challenge that in the games Hartigan plays we concede more goals on average for the year compared to the games he misses I'm down for it. If I'm right a mod closes your account. If I'm wrong a mod closes my account.

Anyone down for that challenge and have that much faith in Hartigan? We are playing port this week and no Hartigan I assume so surely with the irreplaceable Hartigan out they will score heavily against us.

I mean, who's going to stop robbie gray if not hartigan? Lol.

 

[Bicks]

The stats speak for themselves. Sydney kicked 6 goals in the first half with Hartigan playing, and 4 in the 2nd half when we were "a man down". No replacement, just free of Hartigan.

Since then without Hartigan we have conceded 62 and 70 points respectively. So a total of 132 against.

The 2 previous games before that we conceded 106 and 55 respectively. So a total of 161. So that's a 5 goal worse team with Hartigan.

The 2 games before that we conceded 82 and 99 respectively. So a total of 181. That's a 49 point or 8 goal worse team with Hartigan.

So on average we are a 6 and a half goal worse side with Hartigan.

But let's ignore stats and remember that 1 glorious day where Hartigan beat Gray . Oh how wondrous it was.

 

[mick500]

Not a fan of facts?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Hartigan when fit will return, but in the meantime Otten is doing a great job at CHB.

 

[cmndstab]

The stats speak for themselves. Sydney kicked 6 goals in the first half with Hartigan playing, and 4 in the 2nd half when we were "a man down". No replacement, just free of Hartigan.

Since then without Hartigan we have conceded 62 and 70 points respectively. So a total of 132 against.

The 2 previous games before that we conceded 106 and 55 respectively. So a total of 161. So that's a 5 goal worse team with Hartigan.

The 2 games before that we conceded 82 and 99 respectively. So a total of 181. That's a 49 point or 8 goal worse team with Hartigan.

So on average we are a 6 and a half goal worse side with Hartigan.

But let's ignore stats and remember that 1 glorious day where Hartigan beat Gray . Oh how wondrous it was.

Mate I know some statisticians who would belt you for calling this "stats". You can't take six games against different teams with different players in the 22, look at a single number and draw a conclusion.

Well, I mean, you can, but you look like an idiot when you do it.

 

[Bicks]

Not a fan of facts?

Not a fan of delusional ramblings...

In an ideal world Hartigan would be good depth, but right now he's easily the best option for the role he plays on our list, most on this board agree with that and more importantly the coaching group think that.

 

[1970crow]

Otten could play on Robbie Gray? You think Otten has that mobility? Can you tell me what number a Otten is please?

As for going forward, he is behind so many of our forwards that he will only get a game up there in case of major injuries. He’s not switched up there to win us a game.

You are talking nonsense, the fact you keep on repeating it to keep your thread alive doesn’t put you in a good light.

Is this Marty's alias?

 

[Miss Vanessa]

You dont take into account we played the bottom side?
Your logic says Sloane is crap because we won 3 games without him and only 2 and 2 with him.
Otten is so slow. Harry Mckay a 200cm 3rd gamer made him look slow.
Not overly confident in Hartigan but hes a 100% better option than Otten.
This position is our weakest link. But to suggest Otten is a better solution is delusional

While I'm happy with either Otten or Hartigan - both have deficiencies - I think it needs to be said that Harry McKay only had nine touches and four marks. He kicked two goals - one of which was the result of Crouch putting it on his chest 20m from goal directly in front, and the other a result of a turnover just outside 50 before McKay took a mark running back into space with Jenkins on him. Otten had a perfectly serviceable game and kept McKay quiet most of the night.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Hartigan when fit will return, but in the meantime Otten is doing a great job at CHB.

Agree

Hartigan has recently finished top 10 in our BF while Otten was not in our round 1 best 22.

It’s is clear in the coaches minds who is first choice and who is break glass

Hartigan when fit may come back through the sanfl however he will be our 1st choice CHB in the back half of the season

 

[70lethal]

Otten 0 tackles. 0 drive from defensive 50.

Not going to win a gf if he makes the side.

 

[mick500]

Hartigan when fit will return, but in the meantime Otten is doing a great job at CHB.

I have little doubt you are right about that. I hope this opens don pykes eyes, but like I said, I fear you are spot on.

 

[FR0GGY]

The stats speak for themselves. Sydney kicked 6 goals in the first half with Hartigan playing, and 4 in the 2nd half when we were "a man down". No replacement, just free of Hartigan.

Since then without Hartigan we have conceded 62 and 70 points respectively. So a total of 132 against.

The 2 previous games before that we conceded 106 and 55 respectively. So a total of 161. So that's a 5 goal worse team with Hartigan.

The 2 games before that we conceded 82 and 99 respectively. So a total of 181. That's a 49 point or 8 goal worse team with Hartigan.

So on average we are a 6 and a half goal worse side with Hartigan.

But let's ignore stats and remember that 1 glorious day where Hartigan beat Gray . Oh how wondrous it was.

Hartigan went off in the first qtr.
We have also played two of the weakest teams in the comp.
You also like to ignore his performance in the grand final because it suits your argument.
Life will be tough for you following the crows because when fit hartigan will be back in.
Time to find another hobby horse because it’s getting embarrassing for you.

 

[mick500]

Mate I know some statisticians who would belt you for calling this "stats". You can't take six games against different teams with different players in the 22, look at a single number and draw a conclusion.

Well, I mean, you can, but you look like an idiot when you do it.

Firstly I doubt a statistician could belt anyone lol, secondly, just call them facts and not stats then. Because it's all factually accurate. We are on average defensively a 6 and a half goal better side without Hartigan than with him based on this year.

 

[mick500]

Time to find another hobby horse because it’s getting embarrassing for you.

Funnily enough I think the same thing every time I see fumble fumble, failed spoil attempt, turnover, kick down the line from Hartigan.

 

[FR0GGY]

Firstly I doubt a statistician could belt anyone lol, secondly, just call them facts and not stats then. Because it's all factually accurate. We are on average defensively a 6 and a half goal better side without Hartigan than with him based on this year.

It’s not factually accurate, hartigan didn’t even take the field in the 2nd qtr they scored 3 goals in the first and 3 in the second. It made no difference.

Funnily enough I think the same thing every time I see fumble fumble, failed spoil attempt, turnover, kick down the line from Hartigan.

You do realise Talia turns it over more?

 

[mick500]

It’s not factually accurate, hartigan didn’t even take the field in the 2nd qtr they scored 3 goals in the first and 3 in the second. It made no difference.

It is actually accurate. If you read what I wrote I left the Sydney game out for the average of us being a 6 and a half goal better side defensively without Hartigan. Re read it. Only included 6 games. The Sydney game he got injured in so I left it out for easier assessent. Wouldn't have changed much anyway, except like I noted they scored 6 in the first half vs 4 in the 2nd with Hartigan off. And a total of 75 points which is middling when looking at the other 6 games. Regardless, that match was left out when working out we are a 6 and a half goal better side defensively without Hartigan this year so far.

 

[FR0GGY]

It is actually accurate. If you read what I wrote I left the Sydney game out for the average of us being a 6 and a half goal better side defensively without Hartigan. Re read it. Only included 6 games. The Sydney game he got injured in so I left it out for easier assessent. Wouldn't have changed much anyway, except like I noted they scored 6 in the first half vs 4 in the 2nd with Hartigan off. And a total of 75 points which is middling when looking at the other 6 games. Regardless, that match was left out when working out we are a 6 and a half goal better side defensively without Hartigan this year so far.

Talia turns it over more than hartigan. You missed that bit.
How about wait until we play some good teams and then do your average points again.
Using 2 matches against two of the worst sides in the competition is just silly.