Time for Hohns and Chappell to move one

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#26
Tasmania has responded after Australian selectors once again overlooked Matthew Wade for a spot in the Test team for the upcoming two-match series against Sri Lanka.
Chairman of selectors Trevor Hohns said the Tigers wicketkeeper-batsman wasn’t included in the squad because he was batting too far down the order at No. 6 for his state.
“He’s playing as a wicketkeeper-batsman for Tasmania and it just so happens we have a wicketkeeper-batsman in our Test side who is the captain,” Hohns said.
“If Matthew wants to be considered as a straight-out batsman, it would be nice to see him batting a little higher up for Tasmania.
“That conversation has been had.”
However, Tasmania coach Adam Griffith said nobody at Cricket Australia ever told him the 31-year-old needs to be promoted in the batting line-up to be considered for national selection.
“I’ve never been told by Cricket Australia that he has to bat in the top four,” Griffith told The Mercury.
“I had a conversation with (coach) Justin (Langer) a couple of days ago where he did say one of the reasons we haven’t picked him is because he bats at six.
“But before that there wasn’t a directive from CA that he has to bat in the top four otherwise we can’t pick him.”
Wade has been the top runscorer in the Sheffield Shield this season, amassing 571 runs from six matches at an average of 63.44 batting in the middle order.
He’s carried on his impressive form from last season and in the past two summers has racked up 1225 runs while averaging 51.04. But despite Australia crying out for established batsmen, a recall to the Test side hasn’t been forthcoming.
Matthew Wade has to keep biding his time.
Opening up about being left on the sideline once again, Wade said it was disappointing his weight of runs hasn’t come into calculations and questioned coach Justin Langer’s assertion performances would dictate selection.
“Justin Langer shot me an email just before the start of the last Test (against India in Sydney) just saying well done on my performances and at the moment I’m probably not going to get a look-in any time soon,” Wade told Fox Sports News this week.
“I feel like my form is as good as anyone in the country. When Justin took over he said weight of runs would be the leverage to get selected and I feel like I’ve put the runs on the board over a long period of time now.
“I’d like the opportunity if it comes, I understand it’s probably not going to come as a keeper, my Test career is probably done as a wicketkeeper, but I feel like my weight of runs as a batsman should be looked at.”
Wade said although he was batting at six, he was accustomed to coming in early in innings in domestic cricket on the toughest batting wicket in the country. He also said he feels like a Test No. 5 or 6 and hoped selectors were keen to consider him as a specialist batting option in those positions, rather than viewing him solely as a wicketkeeper.
“I’m hoping they’re not just looking at me as a specialist keeper, I hope they are looking at me as a batsman as well,” Wade said. “If I have to prove that in Shield cricket, I will.
“I’ll come up the order and take off the gloves. Hopefully the communication keeps coming.”

Of the lack of opportunity in the baggy green despite his fantastic form, Wade added: “It’s pretty frustrating.
“It was a blessing in disguise that I got to play just as a batter with Tim (Paine) in the (Tasmania) team, so it probably showed the selectors that I can play as a specialist batsman.
“I’m not batting in the top four of five at the moment for Tasmania, but at the moment in the Test team I feel like number five or six, that role would suit me perfectly, so hopefully they come knocking soon.
“I’m arguably batting on the worst wicket in the country. Granted it is at six, but I feel like I’m in pretty early in most innings. They might want me to come up the order, maybe that’s something that I can look at.
“I understand, as a keeper it’s probably not going to come there … my Test career is probably done as a wicketkeeper but I feel like my weight of runs as a batsman should be looked at.”
Wade played the last of his 22 Tests against Bangladesh in 2017 and has scored two tons and four half centuries while on international duty in the whites.
 

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#27
I'd like to see Ricky Ponting involved in either selection or pathways program. I know they apparently could not afford him in a full time role against his channel 7 salary, but this would allow him to do both.

Just a thought.
So here we are, Cricket Australia has expanded the BBL in order to rake in more profits. Yet at the same time cannot use this cash in order to employ a past Australian captain and one of the countries best Cricket brains?
 
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#28
We should go the England approach, select a bunch of recently retired scouts who report to a chairman, preferably one who hasn't been an utter failure in all his administrative roles for the past 30 years.

At least Mark Waugh is gone. In his autobiography he paints himself as a victim from the press and selectors when he couldn't buy a run in the last 3 years of his career. Now he is walking blindspot who refuses to accept criticism of the same structure that he was apparently a victim of in his playing days.
Nail. Head. Great post mate.
 
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#29
No, selectors are to blame for sending convoluted and inconsistent messages at press conferences re the selection of the national team. The way the Matthew Wade and Glenn Maxwell topics were handled smacked of gross negligence and incompetence. The way they omitted Joe Burns from the side was a disaster, especially when Aaron Finch was selected and put in as an opener. The way Labuschagne was selected with a Shield Average of sub 30, and the way Mitchell Marsh was selected after Hohns himself said we 'Don't need an all rounder unless we have a really good one'.

Other than that, yeah you're probably right.
Your problem is that you don't know cricket.

The selectors are looking for batsmen with the potential to play against duke balls in England. That requires players with tight techniques and some mental application which presently are in short supply. No surprise, you get commentators, such as Michael Vaughan laughing at Australia's prospects of retaining the Ashes.

Batsmen that waive a cross-bat at nothing deliveries outside the off-stump are not going to thrive in England i.e. Burns, Head and Finch. Batsmen those main scoring shot is to swipe across the line through mid-wicket are not going to get many runs in England i.e. Wade. Batsmen that do not have the mental application to occupy the crease for long periods of time whilst few runs are scored are not going to score heavily in England i.e. Maxwell and Harris.

Currently, the only two batsmen I have any confidence in of providing any resistance to England's bowling are Labuschagne and Pucovski. Labuschagne showed his class in the last Test match and whilst ideally he would have more shield runs this season, he has averaged over 40 in the last previous two seasons of the Shield whilst knocking up approx. 700 runs - making him one of the better performed batsmen in the Shield. Pukovski, I don't know a lot about, but he ticks a lot of boxes - is young, has scored runs, and looks to have a nice technique.

Both, Labuschagne and Pucovski, need a run now to assess later suitability for England.
 
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#30
Your problem is that you don't know cricket.

The selectors are looking for batsmen with the potential to play against duke balls in England. That requires players with tight techniques and some mental application which presently are in short supply. No surprise, you get commentators, such as Michael Vaughan laughing at Australia's prospects of retaining the Ashes.

Batsmen that waive a cross-bat at nothing deliveries outside the off-stump are not going to thrive in England i.e. Burns, Head and Finch. Batsmen those main scoring shot is to swipe across the line through mid-wicket are not going to get many runs in England i.e. Wade. Batsmen that do not have the mental application to occupy the crease for long periods of time whilst few runs are scored are not going to score heavily in England i.e. Maxwell and Harris.

Currently, the only two batsmen I have any confidence in of providing any resistance to England's bowling are Labuschagne and Pucovski. Labuschagne showed his class in the last Test match and whilst ideally he would have more shield runs this season, he has averaged over 40 in the last previous two seasons of the Shield whilst knocking up approx. 700 runs - making him one of the better performed batsmen in the Shield. Pukovski, I don't know a lot about, but he ticks a lot of boxes - is young, has scored runs, and looks to have a nice technique.

Both, Labuschagne and Pucovski, need a run now to assess later suitability for England.
My problem is that I don’t know cricket? Yeah, that’s a good one. If you actually read my post you’d see that my major gripe with our selectors is the ridiculously diluted levels of communication to individuals performing at Shield Level whilst continuing to publicly pass over ridiculously weightless excuses that fly in the face of their original comments.

My issue is the fact Wade wasn’t actually given an acceptable reason for not being picked, and that for such a long time high performing shield players are not selected after bludgeoning runs in each season. You don’t make runs in state cricket in the long form if your technique isn’t good, so I am sorry, your point is not going to be taken.
 

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Thread starter #31
Your problem is that you don't know cricket.

The selectors are looking for batsmen with the potential to play against duke balls in England. That requires players with tight techniques and some mental application which presently are in short supply. No surprise, you get commentators, such as Michael Vaughan laughing at Australia's prospects of retaining the Ashes.

Batsmen that waive a cross-bat at nothing deliveries outside the off-stump are not going to thrive in England i.e. Burns, Head and Finch. Batsmen those main scoring shot is to swipe across the line through mid-wicket are not going to get many runs in England i.e. Wade. Batsmen that do not have the mental application to occupy the crease for long periods of time whilst few runs are scored are not going to score heavily in England i.e. Maxwell and Harris.

Currently, the only two batsmen I have any confidence in of providing any resistance to England's bowling are Labuschagne and Pucovski. Labuschagne showed his class in the last Test match and whilst ideally he would have more shield runs this season, he has averaged over 40 in the last previous two seasons of the Shield whilst knocking up approx. 700 runs - making him one of the better performed batsmen in the Shield. Pukovski, I don't know a lot about, but he ticks a lot of boxes - is young, has scored runs, and looks to have a nice technique.

Both, Labuschagne and Pucovski, need a run now to assess later suitability for England.
Not sure about those stats mate. Marnus has never managed to go through one season averaging over 40. It's been mid to late 30's for the last 3 years and 28 this year.

He may have a nice looking technique, but if he's averaging mid 30's in FC cricket on Aussie wickets I can't see him doing that well in England.
 
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#32
Your problem is that you don't know cricket.

The selectors are looking for batsmen with the potential to play against duke balls in England. That requires players with tight techniques and some mental application which presently are in short supply. No surprise, you get commentators, such as Michael Vaughan laughing at Australia's prospects of retaining the Ashes.

Batsmen that waive a cross-bat at nothing deliveries outside the off-stump are not going to thrive in England i.e. Burns, Head and Finch. Batsmen those main scoring shot is to swipe across the line through mid-wicket are not going to get many runs in England i.e. Wade. Batsmen that do not have the mental application to occupy the crease for long periods of time whilst few runs are scored are not going to score heavily in England i.e. Maxwell and Harris.

Currently, the only two batsmen I have any confidence in of providing any resistance to England's bowling are Labuschagne and Pucovski. Labuschagne showed his class in the last Test match and whilst ideally he would have more shield runs this season, he has averaged over 40 in the last previous two seasons of the Shield whilst knocking up approx. 700 runs - making him one of the better performed batsmen in the Shield. Pukovski, I don't know a lot about, but he ticks a lot of boxes - is young, has scored runs, and looks to have a nice technique.

Both, Labuschagne and Pucovski, need a run now to assess later suitability for England.
I’ve also actually never said I wanted Finch or Head in my side, and I’ve also said I find Head’s technique to be far more indicative of short form cricket.

I don’t know why you’re mentioning Burns, he already has 3 test centuries. He is an exceptional long form cricketer, if you want to say he doesn’t have a tight technique then I’d be hard pressed to argue Warner has one also and he averages 50+ in test cricket.

Matthew Wade is a more than capable and deserving no.6 right now, you’re not exactly putting him up against much competition from our former no.6, and if people think he is a waste of a spot then they don’t realise that no.6 is the last of our recognised batsman, so we aren’t expecting him to reinvent the wheel, just come into that spot in good form. Right now he is the country’s best choice for that position.
 
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#33
Not sure about those stats mate. Marnus has never managed to go through one season averaging over 40. It's been mid to late 30's for the last 3 years and 28 this year.

He may have a nice looking technique, but if he's averaging mid 30's in FC cricket on Aussie wickets I can't see him doing that well in England.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/sheffield-shield-2016-17/2017-18


2016/17 10 19 2 626 96 36.82

2017/18 11 22 2 795 134 39.75

You are correct, I was under the impression his 2016/17 was over 40.

They still need to see how he goes in these two tests against Sri Lanka; you know what you will get from Wade and Maxwell. The Australian bowlers should be able to get the job done against Sri Lanka and if they can't then they will have to placed under the microscope prior to the Ashes squad being picked.
 
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#34
Your problem is that you don't know cricket.

The selectors are looking for batsmen with the potential to play against duke balls in England. That requires players with tight techniques and some mental application which presently are in short supply. No surprise, you get commentators, such as Michael Vaughan laughing at Australia's prospects of retaining the Ashes.

Batsmen that waive a cross-bat at nothing deliveries outside the off-stump are not going to thrive in England i.e. Burns, Head and Finch. Batsmen those main scoring shot is to swipe across the line through mid-wicket are not going to get many runs in England i.e. Wade. Batsmen that do not have the mental application to occupy the crease for long periods of time whilst few runs are scored are not going to score heavily in England i.e. Maxwell and Harris.

Currently, the only two batsmen I have any confidence in of providing any resistance to England's bowling are Labuschagne and Pucovski. Labuschagne showed his class in the last Test match and whilst ideally he would have more shield runs this season, he has averaged over 40 in the last previous two seasons of the Shield whilst knocking up approx. 700 runs - making him one of the better performed batsmen in the Shield. Pukovski, I don't know a lot about, but he ticks a lot of boxes - is young, has scored runs, and looks to have a nice technique.

Both, Labuschagne and Pucovski, need a run now to assess later suitability for England.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/10705916

I suggest you read that, and try and understand my reasoning behind my points that the selectors really are struggling to convince people for the reasons the nations best current state player isn’t playing.
 
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#35
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/sheffield-shield-2016-17/2017-18


2016/17 10 19 2 626 96 36.82

2017/18 11 22 2 795 134 39.75

You are correct, I was under the impression his 2016/17 was over 40.

They still need to see how he goes in these two tests against Sri Lanka; you know what you will get from Wade and Maxwell. The Australian bowlers should be able to get the job done against Sri Lanka and if they can't then they will have to placed under the microscope prior to the Ashes squad being picked.
How do you know what you’ll get from Wade & Maxwell? How can you be so sure? Yet you can be so sure about promoting Labuschagne with sub par shield numbers and Pucovski who is still wet behind the ears.

Your argument re the duke ball being the reason tighter techniques are why Wade and Maxwell aren’t playing is weightless. Wade is making runs early in an innings on the nations hardest state wicket. I am not sure if you remember Tasmania much but we were bowled out by SA on a green top down there a few years back, it’s not a great wicket to bat on and probably not dissimilar to English conditions.
 

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Thread starter #36
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/sheffield-shield-2016-17/2017-18


2016/17 10 19 2 626 96 36.82

2017/18 11 22 2 795 134 39.75

You are correct, I was under the impression his 2016/17 was over 40.

They still need to see how he goes in these two tests against Sri Lanka; you know what you will get from Wade and Maxwell. The Australian bowlers should be able to get the job done against Sri Lanka and if they can't then they will have to placed under the microscope prior to the Ashes squad being picked.
Do we know what we would get from Maxwell though?

Last block of games he got in the baggy green he averaged more than Labuschagne averages at FC level and made a ton against the number one test team in the world on their home soil.
 

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#37
How do you know what you’ll get from Wade & Maxwell? How can you be so sure? Yet you can be so sure about promoting Labuschagne with sub par shield numbers and Pucovski who is still wet behind the ears.

Your argument re the duke ball being the reason tighter techniques are why Wade and Maxwell aren’t playing is weightless. Wade is making runs early in an innings on the nations hardest state wicket. I am not sure if you remember Tasmania much but we were bowled out by SA on a green top down there a few years back, it’s not a great wicket to bat on and probably not dissimilar to English conditions.
Both Wade and Maxwell may still yet make the squad for England. If Wade continues to score heavily in the Shield he will be hard to not select, especially in light of the lack or runs from the other candidates.

The problem as I see it is that you go into a Test match with six specialist bats and that can't consist of Khawaja, Head, Maxwell, Harris and Maxwell as five of those specialist bats -there just way too loose. It is a recipe for getting rolled for 60 or there abouts way too many times for my liking. If Wade comes into the side it would have to be at the expense of Head and not a techniquely sound player like Labuschagne who is needed to anchor an innings.

In respect, to Pucovski the Australian way is to select young players when the quality of player is not there in the Shield - he is not the first Australian bat picked on talent. Michael Clarke and Ricky Ponting were picked before there time and without a weight of Shield runs.

The other thing here to is the scheduling of the Shield and the importance of this competition to a strong national squad. Pushing the Shield to the start and the end of the cricket calendar year is not being fair on players and consequently, your weakening the national side.
 

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Thread starter #38
Both Wade and Maxwell may still yet make the squad for England. If Wade continues to score heavily in the Shield he will be hard to not select, especially in light of the lack or runs from the other candidates.

The problem as I see it is that you go into a Test match with six specialist bats and that can't consist of Khawaja, Head, Maxwell, Harris and Maxwell as five of those specialist bats -there just way too loose. It is a recipe for getting rolled for 60 or there abouts way too many times for my liking. If Wade comes into the side it would have to be at the expense of Head and not a techniquely sound player like Labuschagne who is needed to anchor an innings.

In respect, to Pucovski the Australian way is to select young players when the quality of player is not there in the Shield - he is not the first Australian bat picked on talent. Michael Clarke and Ricky Ponting were picked before there time and without a weight of Shield runs.

The other thing here to is the scheduling of the Shield and the importance of this competition to a strong national squad. Pushing the Shield to the start and the end of the cricket calendar year is not being fair on players and consequently, your weakening the national side.
Ponting had weight of runs. He scored close to 800 in his first year and a touch under 1,000 the year before being selected.

Agree 100% with the scheduling issues. The fact they refuse to play the big bash at the end of the cricket season because they need it to be in school holidays just shows where we are.

The likes of Alex Carey and Glenn Maxwell will get to play 2 FC games this season. Its a joke.
 

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#39
I see wade and six batting with paine at seven. 2 guys digging in and batting for the long haul. I see many 100 run partnerships, mayben70 plus partnerships on a regular basis, trying to stablelise the ship. Paine fights and values his wicket, wade along side him is a good match considering the train wreck they would be trying to salvage.

On second thoughts, lets get mitch back.

Fmd, what a disaster oz cricket has become.
 
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#40
Surely they could've picked Wade for the tests against SL, even if he doesn't play he is still rewarded with section in the squad. Place in him the tour match side in Hobart, see how he goes. If he doesn't play the tests, easy enough to release him for BBL games. Once he is in camp have a discussion about what they want from him. He has taken over being captain which is great and the first game back for Tasmania he moves up the order as instructed by CA. If he is not in the WC squad he gets over to England and plays CC, if he is doing a good job pencil him in for an Ashes squad, at least for that Aus vs Aus A game.
 
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#42
The selectors are not to blame for cricketers playing too much limited overs stuff and ruining their batting skills and technique.
No, the selectors are a problem, but a small part of the problem (except maybe Greg Chappell, whose pursuit of "pathways" over players proving themselves infects the Shield and Futures League).

Many, many other things beyond selection need to change.
 
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#44
I'd like to see Ricky Ponting involved in either selection or pathways program. I know they apparently could not afford him in a full time role against his channel 7 salary, but this would allow him to do both.

Just a thought.
Selectors having full time roles the media is not a good idea. The same goes for coaches and administrators. The potential conflicts of interest, and over-analysis by media and the likes of us on every slip of the tongue or ambiguous statement, are simply too great.
Getting him in with a consulting role from time to time might be workable.
 
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#47
Both Wade and Maxwell may still yet make the squad for England. If Wade continues to score heavily in the Shield he will be hard to not select, especially in light of the lack or runs from the other candidates.

The problem as I see it is that you go into a Test match with six specialist bats and that can't consist of Khawaja, Head, Maxwell, Harris and Maxwell as five of those specialist bats -there just way too loose. It is a recipe for getting rolled for 60 or there abouts way too many times for my liking. If Wade comes into the side it would have to be at the expense of Head and not a techniquely sound player like Labuschagne who is needed to anchor an innings.

In respect, to Pucovski the Australian way is to select young players when the quality of player is not there in the Shield - he is not the first Australian bat picked on talent. Michael Clarke and Ricky Ponting were picked before there time and without a weight of Shield runs.

The other thing here to is the scheduling of the Shield and the importance of this competition to a strong national squad. Pushing the Shield to the start and the end of the cricket calendar year is not being fair on players and consequently, your weakening the national side.
You’re not correct re Ponting. I am also sceptical about your call on Labuschagne anchoring an innings. The individuals in England to lean on for that are Khawaja and Smith.

The scheduling I agree with.
 
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#48
Both Wade and Maxwell may still yet make the squad for England. If Wade continues to score heavily in the Shield he will be hard to not select, especially in light of the lack or runs from the other candidates.

The problem as I see it is that you go into a Test match with six specialist bats and that can't consist of Khawaja, Head, Maxwell, Harris and Maxwell as five of those specialist bats -there just way too loose. It is a recipe for getting rolled for 60 or there abouts way too many times for my liking. If Wade comes into the side it would have to be at the expense of Head and not a techniquely sound player like Labuschagne who is needed to anchor an innings.

In respect, to Pucovski the Australian way is to select young players when the quality of player is not there in the Shield - he is not the first Australian bat picked on talent. Michael Clarke and Ricky Ponting were picked before there time and without a weight of Shield runs.

The other thing here to is the scheduling of the Shield and the importance of this competition to a strong national squad. Pushing the Shield to the start and the end of the cricket calendar year is not being fair on players and consequently, your weakening the national side.
There is literally no way they'll make the squad for England. CA have their papers stamped, it was pretty clear from the convoluted press release Hohns gave and Langer's wishy washy philosophical responses that they won't pick them. I mean Hohns has not even taken into consideration when Wade has come in to bat and the wicket's he has played on. Maxwell is pigeon holed to a ODI position.

I fon't know you can say that based on current long form game form that Wade & Maxwell can't be considered as specialist batsman, i mean really, who else do we have waiting at door? Yeah you'll say Labuschagne and Pucovski but the Labuschagne call really wasn't one that becomes any better than picking Maxwell or Wade. Pucovski is green, and the issue is that the standards CA are setting by overlooking consistently big run makers in favour of 'youth' is just sending mixed and silly messages.
 

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#50
I can say very confidently re Siddle that’s he’s been selected for his form in England, but if Worrall was fit he would already be in the Test squad ahead of Siddle. Selectors rate him very highly, but can’t get on the park consistently enough.
 
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