Time for Hohns and Chappell to move one

greatwhiteshark

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Posts
9,262
Likes
8,151
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
West Perth
#51
I have never got the hype about Maxwell? Is it because he got called the big show that everyone thinks he is a gun player. The amount of times I have watched him bat wanting to see this show and to be let down just goes on and on. Average player.
Based on who has been playing for Australia at test level could Maxwell have been given more chances? Yes possibly but making selection blunders on others does not mean doing it with Maxwell either.

And what is all this crap about preparing for the Dukes ball in England? They have been using adukes balls forever just as we have used the Kookaburra and for over 100 years there was no fear of this ball. Has this ball become magical all of a sudden?
Good players don’t care what ball is used, they adapt and perform as they should.
Never heard Border, Waugh, Taylor, Boon, the chappels etc etc ever mention this magical ball they may face going into an ashes series.

English conditions are different to here, I played there for many years and you just need to adapt both as a bowler and a batsman. I am still laughing at how we are using Dukes here in the shield thinking this will help our players.
It’s a bloody cricket ball for a God’s sake,not a magic wand.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Len Nicodemo

Team Captain
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Posts
311
Likes
157
AFL Club
Melbourne
#52
I have never got the hype about Maxwell? Is it because he got called the big show that everyone thinks he is a gun player. The amount of times I have watched him bat wanting to see this show and to be let down just goes on and on. Average player.
Based on who has been playing for Australia at test level could Maxwell have been given more chances? Yes possibly but making selection blunders on others does not mean doing it with Maxwell either.

And what is all this crap about preparing for the Dukes ball in England? They have been using adukes balls forever just as we have used the Kookaburra and for over 100 years there was no fear of this ball. Has this ball become magical all of a sudden?
Good players don’t care what ball is used, they adapt and perform as they should.
Never heard Border, Waugh, Taylor, Boon, the chappels etc etc ever mention this magical ball they may face going into an ashes series.

English conditions are different to here, I played there for many years and you just need to adapt both as a bowler and a batsman. I am still laughing at how we are using Dukes here in the shield thinking this will help our players.
It’s a bloody cricket ball for a God’s sake,not a magic wand.
I think like anything it can be a big beat up. I mean a few years ago according to Mark Nicholas reverse swing was the most important and amazing thing since cut bread. Yeah it’s useful and it happens, but let’s not pretend it hasn’t been a feature of an older cricket ball for many years now.

As far as the duke goes well it’s a ball that has a much more pronounced seam and gives the bowler some additional purchase for swing bowling. Jimmy Anderson will be able to swing anything so he is what he is. We are going to face pitches that have more grass coverage and resemble a green top, not overly dissimilar to the Perth wicket actually, that provided plenty.

The Indians bent the ball around a lot as well, so I think your point re the overreaction is fair to a degree, it still stands to reason that of our batsman can ward off early overs and build partnerships the bowlers will need to be relying on more than a duke or reverse swing to get them out.
 

SunshineTiger

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Posts
19,345
Likes
28,991
Location
Somewhere in Queensland
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Chelsea FC
#54
I have never got the hype about Maxwell? Is it because he got called the big show that everyone thinks he is a gun player. The amount of times I have watched him bat wanting to see this show and to be let down just goes on and on. Average player.
Based on who has been playing for Australia at test level could Maxwell have been given more chances? Yes possibly but making selection blunders on others does not mean doing it with Maxwell either.

And what is all this crap about preparing for the Dukes ball in England? They have been using adukes balls forever just as we have used the Kookaburra and for over 100 years there was no fear of this ball. Has this ball become magical all of a sudden?
Good players don’t care what ball is used, they adapt and perform as they should.
Never heard Border, Waugh, Taylor, Boon, the chappels etc etc ever mention this magical ball they may face going into an ashes series.

English conditions are different to here, I played there for many years and you just need to adapt both as a bowler and a batsman. I am still laughing at how we are using Dukes here in the shield thinking this will help our players.
It’s a bloody cricket ball for a God’s sake,not a magic wand.
But but but reverse swing.......
 

SunshineTiger

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Posts
19,345
Likes
28,991
Location
Somewhere in Queensland
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Chelsea FC
#55
I think like anything it can be a big beat up. I mean a few years ago according to Mark Nicholas reverse swing was the most important and amazing thing since cut bread. Yeah it’s useful and it happens, but let’s not pretend it hasn’t been a feature of an older cricket ball for many years now.

As far as the duke goes well it’s a ball that has a much more pronounced seam and gives the bowler some additional purchase for swing bowling. Jimmy Anderson will be able to swing anything so he is what he is. We are going to face pitches that have more grass coverage and resemble a green top, not overly dissimilar to the Perth wicket actually, that provided plenty.

The Indians bent the ball around a lot as well, so I think your point re the overreaction is fair to a degree, it still stands to reason that of our batsman can ward off early overs and build partnerships the bowlers will need to be relying on more than a duke or reverse swing to get them out.
How are our guys going to get it to reverse? Wet and dry? Rather than the Norton’s?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
May 24, 2006
Posts
48,918
Likes
79,370
Location
Car 55
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Redbacks, Sturt, Liverpool
Moderator #62
Why would the selectors have spoken to Tas coaches about Wade batting higher?

Prior to the season he would have been the last player you'd think would have been pushing for a test batting spot.

Credit to him he's made some runs in the first half of the Shield season and is now part of the conversation. And, to take things further, has been told that the next step is to push up the order. Very sensible. Of all the blunders and poor communication from the selectors this is one they have got right.

The last half of Wade's test career was enough to have had him stamped as a player never to select again in any role. Good that he's turned the ship around but to suggest that the selectors should have magically seen this renaissance coming and preemptively got Tassie to push him up the order is off the mark.
 

bird_man

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Posts
17,810
Likes
29,784
Location
The River Murray
AFL Club
St Kilda
Thread starter #63
Why would the selectors have spoken to Tas coaches about Wade batting higher?

Prior to the season he would have been the last player you'd think would have been pushing for a test batting spot.

Credit to him he's made some runs in the first half of the Shield season and is now part of the conversation. And, to take things further, has been told that the next step is to push up the order. Very sensible. Of all the blunders and poor communication from the selectors this is one they have got right.

The last half of Wade's test career was enough to have had him stamped as a player never to select again in any role. Good that he's turned the ship around but to suggest that the selectors should have magically seen this renaissance coming and preemptively got Tassie to push him up the order is off the mark.
Because he also scored 3 shield centuries during last season, it's not just a couple of months of form.

I'm more than happy for selectors to tell him he's gone to the back of the queue due to his last international efforts, but a guy smashing out runs at Shield level whilst other batsmen get picked averaging 28 deserves a bit of feedback.

He shouldn't have to wait until he's mentioned it to the media until he gets a token email from the coach.

This is an elite international sport
 
Joined
May 24, 2006
Posts
48,918
Likes
79,370
Location
Car 55
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Redbacks, Sturt, Liverpool
Moderator #64
Because he also scored 3 shield centuries during last season, it's not just a couple of months of form.

I'm more than happy for selectors to tell him he's gone to the back of the queue due to his last international efforts, but a guy smashing out runs at Shield level whilst other batsmen get picked averaging 28 deserves a bit of feedback.

He shouldn't have to wait until he's mentioned it to the media until he gets a token email from the coach.

This is an elite international sport
He rescued an absolutely dire 2017-18 Shield season with a late flourish (had 180 runs up until mid February at an average of 22).

He's continued on from that late burst - good for him - and has only now re-entered the conversation.
 

bird_man

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Posts
17,810
Likes
29,784
Location
The River Murray
AFL Club
St Kilda
Thread starter #65
He rescued an absolutely dire 2017-18 Shield season with a late flourish (had 180 runs up until mid February at an average of 22).

He's continued on from that late burst - good for him - and has only now re-entered the conversation.
He hasn't played any FC cricket for 6 weeks, so I can't understand how he has only just re entered the conversation? He should have at least been in the conversation when he was smashing out runs in the Shield. As I said earlier, he only received a token email from the coach after Wade spoke to the media.

It really shouldn't be that hard to pick up the phone after a guy makes his 4th century for the calendar year (November 17) and tell him if he wants a chance to wear the baggy green again he needs to bat at 4 instead of 6 (which is clearly a cop out considering he's in before the 35th over and a score of 130 on average).

I have no problem with Wade not being selected, but I'm sick of the mixed messages and poor feed back. Players were told they'd be picked on weight of runs and that hasn't happened. Then Wade is told he needs to bat at 4. Aaron Finch was picked as an opener and he bats at 5 or 6 for Victoria.

And don't you think that if the selectors aren't going to consider anyone batting outside the top 4 then they should at least let the state's know this?
 
Last edited:

Larry Barnsworth

Playing my Natural Game
Joined
Mar 11, 2018
Posts
904
Likes
1,207
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#66
Apologies if this has already been shared - Wade gives an interview on SEN where he kinda calls out the selectors for their BS

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/01...f-sense-wade-on-being-left-out-of-test-squad/

"He (Hohns) voiced his opinion about me batting in the top four, I raised that Shaun Marsh bats five for WA,"

"I feel like if I give up the gloves completely, go bat at four, it doesn’t pan out as well, I feel like the next thing I’ll be hearing is I can’t be picked as the back up keeper because I’m not keeping."

* not suggesting Wade should be picked, rather that the selectors need to be clearer in their communication. It seems ATM that the communication is just there to attempt to justify "gut" decisions after the fact.
 

Richard Pryor

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Posts
6,404
Likes
8,056
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#67
Apologies if this has already been shared - Wade gives an interview on SEN where he kinda calls out the selectors for their BS

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/01...f-sense-wade-on-being-left-out-of-test-squad/

"He (Hohns) voiced his opinion about me batting in the top four, I raised that Shaun Marsh bats five for WA,"

"I feel like if I give up the gloves completely, go bat at four, it doesn’t pan out as well, I feel like the next thing I’ll be hearing is I can’t be picked as the back up keeper because I’m not keeping."

* not suggesting Wade should be picked, rather that the selectors need to be clearer in their communication. It seems ATM that the communication is just there to attempt to justify "gut" decisions after the fact.
Yep, it's really hard to argue their public statements are anything but trying to justify decisions after the fact, hence "We can't promote anyone from the Shield because they're all averaging in the 30's, and we don't want to reward poor performance", and then "We can't select Wade because he's a keeper who bats down the order" and "Sure Finch is struggling, but he's trying REALLY HARD, and it would be good for him to learn to bat in all three formats" and "Maxwell is a white ball specialist in our eyes and he should focus on that".

Whether or not one agrees with the decisions or they pay off is almost irrelevant to the fact the selectors seem to be 100% bullshitting the media/players. Simply saying "Our selection criteria is an internal matter, no comment" would be better as I think the fans could come up with more consistent reasoning behind the selection decisions.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Posts
480
Likes
443
AFL Club
Collingwood
#68
FWIW there are currently 3 people occupying the men's selection panel
https://www.cricketaustralia.com.au/cricket/national-selection-panel
  • Trevor Hohns
  • Greg Chappell
  • Justin Langer
It's common knowledge Chappell is a proponent of the talent pathway approach. Where 'talent' is identified as early as possible and given opportunity that may not have occured based upon prior performance alone. So whenever we see a younger player parachuted in with a modest record I assume Chappell has been the driver. Same with a player who is persisted with for longer than others despite modest output. All my bias, granted, but it feels like these players are identified 'talent' whereas the others on the selection merry-go-round are not. And that's Chappell's bag.

Trevor Hohns is a weird one. Long term Chairman of Selectors (2 lengthy terms), who's got a whiff of long term public servant about him and his utterances. Yet he's not a traditional sports administrator nor high performance background. Is the Chairman a volunteer or full time paid position? I 'member talk back when Mark Waugh was a selector about having one full time selector and how this was a departure of the current none. Obviously there would be a stipend, but the suggestion of part time infers selection duties incringe upon your day job. Chappell is also the National Talent Manager and Langer the coach - so does that mean that Hohns is full time or is no one currently full time?

The the new coach is also the new selector. Given the elder statesmen status of his colleagues, I wonder how much Langer is treated as "the new boy"? Seen and not heard. Boomers used to be pretty big on that sort of stuff as anyone who has spent time in institutions would know.

* This is all wild supposition based upon bias and utter fantasy, meaning it can safely be ignored.
It certainly is a paid position. Rod Marsh was on 300k
I read a Brett Geeves article recently, he said Hohns is on 250k
Nice saving of 50k there, but I digress.
Lots of travel and nice hotels. Good gig.
 

Doss

Super Moderator
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Posts
70,521
Likes
95,362
AFL Club
Essendon
Admin #70
The selectors can't be panned for not getting Tasmania to move Wade up the order; that's high end rubbish.

Using his batting position as the reason for his non-selection is also high-end rubbish, however. I disliked Wade with some strength by the end of his second stint as a Test player if I'm being honest; however, in a season where precious few are making consistent runs at Shield level, Wade is one of the few who undeniably is.

Plus, it's a false economy anyway; if Wade was picked, he's probably not going to be batting opening or batting 3 or 4; he will be batting at 5 or 6, which just so happens to be where he's been batting, OH GUESS WHAT, for Tassie.

High-end nonsense, I tells ya.
 

Stopher

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Posts
8,707
Likes
12,985
Location
Gippsland
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Liverpool
#71
The great irony is that Wade opens the batting in both short forms, has done quite well with it this season, yet is as far from selection in those formats as he ever has been.
 

The Swans Blog

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Posts
9,700
Likes
5,954
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
The Swans Blog
#72
The great irony is that Wade opens the batting in both short forms, has done quite well with it this season, yet is as far from selection in those formats as he ever has been.
Short memories. It was little over a year ago he was dropped for an abysmal series overseas, averaging bugger all. Sure, he's scoring runs for fun now, but he doesn't have a track record of scoring in international games.
 

Stopher

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Posts
8,707
Likes
12,985
Location
Gippsland
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Liverpool
#73
Short memories. It was little over a year ago he was dropped for an abysmal series overseas, averaging bugger all. Sure, he's scoring runs for fun now, but he doesn't have a track record of scoring in international games.
I wasn't even suggesting he should be in either the ODI or T20 teams, but more using Hohns' logic (or lack thereof) against him. The goalposts keep moving for them to justify a certain player staying in or out of the side.
 
Top Bottom