time to look at future....?

[NeoBlaze]

do you guys think that in our present situation we should look more towards our future team of champions? we all know our golden era is gone and now it's time to "rebuild" and tinker with our starting 22 and look at building experience in our youth and new draftees...

I mean for example we drafted Porter with the exact purpose of using him as our no.1 ruckman...since then the gloss has been taken off him as he spends more and more time on the pine....the whole reason why porter rose to fame was because he played an entire game of footy and built up his confidence and touch, and then when allan returned after injury his form went just as fast as it came...which is what we've witnessed with him so far this year....

porter is not a rotating ruckman, therefore he should be playing the most time on the ground as fitness allows....now i know that's hard to do since burton has been playing so well but for next year and the years after we need to develop our current list and provide them with a good grounding and find their feet in our team on a permanent basis....i say we need to start looking and phasing out our old horses......eg. martyn, blakey and burton all have been fantastic servants of the club but need to phased out for the greater good of the team to develop a new core group of players for the future....

our youngsters can only improve from match experience and we can see whether they can handle the intensity of AFL footy....players like Watt are withering on the basement because they can't get sufficient game time, instead of continually knocking back our youngsters we should be harbouring their talent and developing them as stars of the future, we've already seen how good our youngsters are why don't we continue to develop them?!?!

the likes of: watt, teague,harding, cochrane, d.motlop, petrie, s.motlop, sinclair and to a lesser extent harris, smith and crowe are all missing out on opportunities, by phasing out these old warhorses we can harbour this talent and look at moving forward rather than backwards....however our newest blood (hale, watson need time to develop, i agree first year rookies need time in the ressies...2-3 year players should be getting a look in as far as game time goes on a more consistant basis in our team

I'd like to see a team resembling something like this in 2-3 years time....remember that's a long time in footy 3 years ago we were playing premiership footy

FB: Makepeace, McCartney, Teague
HB: S.Motlop, Colbert, Baird
C: Robbins, Simpson, Cochrane
HF: D.Motlop, Morrell, Pickett
FF: Sinclair, Watt, Harding
R: Porter, Harvey, Grant

I: Petrie, Harris, Hale, Watson, Foott, Pratt, Cooper, Crowe, Jones, Clayton, McLaren, Smith

Phased out soon: burton, martyn, blakey
Phased out later: stevo, king, sav, archer, abrahams

 

[Rooboy 34]

Very good post Neo and similar to what I was saying to my mates on Saturday. We must look to the future. I would rather conceed this season (lets face it - 7th or 8th at absolute best), and develop the youngsters for the future than continue in the current mould. I know that Spider has been great this season, but the future for us is having Porter & Petrie as 1 & 2 ruckman. There is still plenty of experience there to bring a few kids in and show them the ropes. The only thing where I disagreed is with Rocca & Arch. They are still in their 20's which suggests that they should have at least 3 years in them...

 

[NeoBlaze]

phased out later doesn't necessarily mean in those 2-3 years.... form provided they have a role in our team...those in the sooner basket need to go this year because next year will be useless for them if they are retained

 

[TRex]

I agree with you Neo, its time for us to look to the future & start giving our youngsters more opportunities to play senior footy to show what they've got.

I was thinking about it the other week, after seeing so many good youngsters Geelong has & the 5 year plan that Mark Thomson has put into place.
I know that the young guys are going to be inconssistent but unless they're provided with the opportunities how they're going to experience the rigour of AFL fotball.

How about this for our line up in 2-3 years time

FB: Makepeace, Crowe, Teague
HB: S. Motlop, Baird, Watson
C: Sinclair, Harris, Cochrane
HF: D. Motlop, Morrell, Pickett
FF: S Grant, Hale, Harding
R: Petrie, Harvey, Smith

Int: Foott, Jones, Robbins, Porter, Cooper, Clayton, Watt & other youngsters that we pick up in the draft.

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Rooboy 34
Very good post Neo and similar to what I was saying to my mates on Saturday. We must look to the future. I would rather conceed this season (lets face it - 7th or 8th at absolute best), and develop the youngsters for the future than continue in the current mould. I know that Spider has been great this season, but the future for us is having Porter & Petrie as 1 & 2 ruckman. There is still plenty of experience there to bring a few kids in and show them the ropes. The only thing where I disagreed is with Rocca & Arch. They are still in their 20's which suggests that they should have at least 3 years in them...

I can't remember North ever conceeding a season 6 rounds in before. I would be horrified if the player did and I expected more from our supporters.

One bad game people....one game. After five really strong competitive games we are throwing in the season after one bad game....

 

[Rooboy 34]

Originally posted by Briedis


I can't remember North ever conceeding a season 6 rounds in before. I would be horrified if the player did and I expected more from our supporters.

One bad game people....one game. After five really strong competitive games we are throwing in the season after one bad game....

No Briedis - I'm conceeding that we are not going to be Premiers this season, and in my mind there is not really that much difference b/w finishing 2nd or lower. Ok - it is nice to make the finals, but as they say, 'There ain't no second prize'. For a team like us that has been up there for a while, we being Premiers is all that counts, and with our current crop of older players, we are simply not good enough to compete with the better sides. I was trying to say that if the kids were given a run now, then we may not be right up there this year, but hopefully the experience might propel them for future years...

 

[roobear]

Originally posted by Briedis


I can't remember North ever conceeding a season 6 rounds in before. I would be horrified if the player did and I expected more from our supporters.

One bad game people....one game. After five really strong competitive games we are throwing in the season after one bad game....

Too right Briedis, and despite how much Saturday sucked, it was really only a bad half of footy... the second half was very close, and there were good signs, even if they were too little and too late...

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Rooboy 34


No Briedis - I'm conceeding that we are not going to be Premiers this season, and in my mind there is not really that much difference b/w finishing 2nd or lower. Ok - it is nice to make the finals, but as they say, 'There ain't no second prize'. For a team like us that has been up there for a while, we being Premiers is all that counts, and with our current crop of older players, we are simply not good enough to compete with the better sides. I was trying to say that if the kids were given a run now, then we may not be right up there this year, but hopefully the experience might propel them for future years...

Who says that we can't win the flag? We were the best team in 1983 and didn't win it - we weren't the best team in 1999 and did win it. If we keep going in and doing our best and stay up there we can win the flag. It's a very even comp this year. The Bombers are not looking like contenders - who would have thought that?

I hate to see North supporters saying we can't win it. If being a North supporter over the years has taught me anything it is to never, ever write them off.

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by NeoBlaze
I'd like to see a team resembling something like this in 2-3 years time....remember that's a long time in footy 3 years ago we were playing premiership footy

FB: Makepeace, McCartney, Teague
HB: S.Motlop, Colbert, Baird
C: Robbins, Simpson, Cochrane
HF: D.Motlop, Morrell, Pickett
FF: Sinclair, Watt, Harding
R: Porter, Harvey, Grant

I: Petrie, Harris, Hale, Watson, Foott, Pratt, Cooper, Crowe, Jones, Clayton, McLaren, Smith

Phased out soon: burton, martyn, blakey
Phased out later: stevo, king, sav, archer, abrahams

Surely you must realise that you can't just bring in a group of kids and expect them to win the flag. It is a gradual process and it is a process that Pagan has started.

Teague, D. Motlop, Baird, Morrell, Sinclair, Watt, Harding, Harris, Petrie have all had runs in the 1s, some of them for extended periods.

He is giving these kids a chance, but at the same time he is not turning his back on the players that have been loyal servants to our club over a long period of time and are still good players.

Mick did a great job on Barry Hall, Burton has been brilliant. Blakes has been out of form, but I think we owe it to him to give him some leeway to get some form back.

You can't replace experience and proven quality with youth.

 

[windsock]

Originally posted by Briedis


Who says that we can't win the flag? We were the best team in 1983 and didn't win it - we weren't the best team in 1999 and did win it. If we keep going in and doing our best and stay up there we can win the flag. It's a very even comp this year. The Bombers are not looking like contenders - who would have thought that?

I hate to see North supporters saying we can't win it. If being a North supporter over the years has taught me anything it is to never, ever write them off.

Sorry but you are kidding yourself Briedis. I love my club but I'm not deluded about our ability. We snuck in against Carlton and the Bulldogs and caught the Smears off guard after their pre-season cup win.
If we win more than 10 games for the year we have exceeded my expectations.
In response to the original post, yes it is time to look to the future. That means stop drafting 25-26 year olds who couldn't cut the mustard at other clubs, and start giving our kids - who were rated as stars in thier junior years - a go (subtle enough?).

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by windsock


Sorry but you are kidding yourself Briedis. I love my club but I'm not deluded about our ability. We snuck in against Carlton and the Bulldogs and caught the Smears off guard after their pre-season cup win.
If we win more than 10 games for the year we have exceeded my expectations.
In response to the original post, yes it is time to look to the future. That means stop drafting 25-26 year olds who couldn't cut the mustard at other clubs, and start giving our kids - who were rated as stars in thier junior years - a go (subtle enough?).

We won the flag in 1999 with a lot of the personel we have at the moment, we are only six games into the season and we have been going pretty well this year.

I'm not saying we are favourites to win the flag, but we are still a chance and I will think so until we can not make the finals mathematically.

You give up too easily....

To suggest that we throw the season after six rounds is ridiculous. In 1999 we were 1-4 but we still won the flag. We ARE good enough we played well in our first 5 games.

I don't understand why you would make excuses for us winning games. We were better than the opposition so we won.

 

[Rooboy 34]

Originally posted by Briedis


We won the flag in 1999 with a lot of the personel we have at the moment, we are only six games into the season and we have been going pretty well this year.

Gone from that day in September

Corey McKernan, Peter Bell, Martin Pike, Scott Welsh, John Longmire, Cameron Mooney, Brett Allison, Craig Sholl, Matty Capuano. Add to that Wayne & Winnie and that is 11 players who are not going to play this season.

On top of that everyone is now 2½ years older including Mick, Johnny Blakey & Stevo - all of whom were playing better then than they will this season. We may well be only six games in, but we are not good enough this season. And if we don't start promoting youngsters soon, we won't be good enough for a couple of years to come...

 

[windsock]

Originally posted by Briedis


We won the flag in 1999 with a lot of the personel we have at the moment, we are only six games into the season and we have been going pretty well this year.

Lets be honest about the guys who got us the Flag in 1999 and where they are placed now.
Off the top of my head Stevens, Blakey, Archer and Martyn are not the players they were 3 years ago. McCartney isn't playing particularly well this year.
We don't have Abraham, Welsh, Mooney, Allison, Sholl or Pike -none of them stars, all important nonetheless.
We are also without McKernan, an absolute star from that finals series (go back and watch the Preliminary Final against Brisbane).
Oh and a bloke called Carey - one of the better players in the comp back then I believe - is sitting on the couch with a hot milo and tim tam watching Oprah Winfrey each afternoon in Wagga.
You may disagree but Stuey Cochrane, Ben Robbins, Sav Rocca and Troy Makepeace et al don't quite make up for the loss of the above mentioned names.

 

[tashibatts]

Re: Re: time to look at future....?

Originally posted by Briedis




Mick did a great job on Barry Hall
You can't replace experience and proven quality with youth.

He sure did do a great job on Barry Hall.. but we are gonna have to replace good ole experienced Mick with someone at the end of this year.. and I would rather they got a bit of experience while Mick is still around.

Go Roos

Also looks like Ole Blakey may have to give it up According to the way the year has gone so far.

 

[Rooboy 34]

Re: Re: Re: time to look at future....?

Originally posted by tashibatts


He sure did do a great job on Barry Hall.. but we are gonna have to replace good ole experienced Mick with someone at the end of this year.. and I would rather they got a bit of experience while Mick is still around.

And one guess Tashi who you think that player should be...

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Rooboy 34


Gone from that day in September

Corey McKernan, Peter Bell, Martin Pike, Scott Welsh, John Longmire, Cameron Mooney, Brett Allison, Craig Sholl, Matty Capuano. Add to that Wayne & Winnie and that is 11 players who are not going to play this season.

On top of that everyone is now 2½ years older including Mick, Johnny Blakey & Stevo - all of whom were playing better then than they will this season. We may well be only six games in, but we are not good enough this season. And if we don't start promoting youngsters soon, we won't be good enough for a couple of years to come...

As far as players missing are concerned - I think our two current ruckmen are better than those two in 99, Longmire, Mooney and Allison had little impact on the day and only Fruity had a real impact throughout the year, we miss Scholl but Sav is a good option up forward along with Morrell and Baird makes up for Pike. The only real hole is the one left by Duck.

The point is our side today is not much worse, if it is at all, then the one in 1999. I think it is better. Our midfield is much stronger and we have alot more depth. Our defence is better. I think our forward line is weaker, but that is developing as the year goes on.

I think it's really sad that you guys have given up on the boys for this year already. Time to have some faith.

How many more youngsters do we need to play before everyone is happy? In the last 30 games we have debuted many young players including Teague, Petrie, Harris, Lindsay Smith, Morrell, Baird, D. Motlop as well as player like Makey, Byron and Cochrane over the last 3-4 years. You can't just play all the kids.

How about we field the MK's side in seniors this week ....

 

[tashibatts]

Re: Re: Re: Re: time to look at future....?

Originally posted by Rooboy 34


And one guess Tashi who you think that player should be...

Shannon Watt of course

lol

Go Roos

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by windsock

Off the top of my head Stevens, Blakey, Archer and Martyn are not the players they were 3 years ago. McCartney isn't playing particularly well this year.

Archer has been brilliant this year.

Stevo's been good considering he came back early from a knee reco. But, gee he was in great form last year until he did his knee, give the guy a break.

Mick has been a great steadying influence in defence and has done his job as per normal, we look a little lost down back without him.

Blakes is out of form, but he will get it back I reckon.

Macca is out of position and will go back to being the stoic defender as soon as he is given the chance. He has done some good things up forward, but looks a little out of place....

Also, Simpson is a far better player than he was in 1999. He can play dual roles these days and has a better all-round game.

Plus some of the young kids we have blooded since 1999 are looking like they will be handy replacements.

 

[tashibatts]

Originally posted by Briedis




Plus some of the young kids we have blooded since 1999 are looking like they will be handy replacements.

Like Jnr

 

[Rooboy 34]

Originally posted by Briedis


As far as players missing are concerned - I think our two current ruckmen are better than those two in 99, Longmire, Mooney and Allison had little impact on the day and only Fruity had a real impact throughout the year, we miss Scholl but Sav is a good option up forward along with Morrell and Baird makes up for Pike. The only real hole is the one left by Duck.

The point is our side today is not much worse, if it is at all, then the one in 1999. I think it is better. Our midfield is much stronger and we have alot more depth. Our defence is better. I think our forward line is weaker, but that is developing as the year goes on.

I think it's really sad that you guys have given up on the boys for this year already. Time to have some faith.

How many more youngsters do we need to play before everyone is happy? In the last 30 games we have debuted many young players including Teague, Petrie, Harris, Lindsay Smith, Morrell, Baird, D. Motlop as well as player like Makey, Byron and Cochrane over the last 3-4 years. You can't just play all the kids.

How about we field the MK's side in seniors this week ....

If you honestly believe that the players we have today are better than those back in 99, you are only fooling yourself. The only one of the group that left who was lucky was probably Mooney - the rest all contributed significantly throughout the year (if not on the day itself).

You say that the rucks we have now are better than back then - clearly you haven't seen the game on video much. Spider has been a great tap ruckman for us, but Capuano & McKernan's work around the ground on that day and throughout that season was sensational. Porter has not contributed as much in 6 games this season as either of those 2 in that game alone.

I know that over the last season or so we have blooded a number of youngsters (10 last season & Baird this), but they need more opportunities. It is great that Jnr & Digger have got a run over the last 2 games as well as Leigh Harding & Bairdy, but where are Dildo, the Hurricane, Petrie & Teaguey. If we don't give them more time this season while we have some experience, we will end up in a similar situation to what St Kilda find themselves in now...

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Rooboy 34



If you honestly believe that the players we have today are better than those back in 99, you are only fooling yourself. The only one of the group that left who was lucky was probably Mooney - the rest all contributed significantly throughout the year (if not on the day itself).

You say that the rucks we have now are better than back then - clearly you haven't seen the game on video much. Spider has been a great tap ruckman for us, but Capuano & McKernan's work around the ground on that day and throughout that season was sensational. Porter has not contributed as much in 6 games this season as either of those 2 in that game alone.

I know that over the last season or so we have blooded a number of youngsters (10 last season & Baird this), but they need more opportunities. It is great that Jnr & Digger have got a run over the last 2 games as well as Leigh Harding & Bairdy, but where are Dildo, the Hurricane, Petrie & Teaguey. If we don't give them more time this season while we have some experience, we will end up in a similar situation to what St Kilda find themselves in now...

I have seen the video (smartarse) and I still reckon that Spider and Porter a far better ruckmen than McKernan and Capuano. McKernan was great in the 2nd quarter of the GF kicking some much needed goals, but Spider has kicked a few goals as well. Cappers took some marks around the ground but got killed in the ruck, as did McKernan. Very rarely do we get killed in the ruck these days. And I think Porter is a far better player than Cappers around the ground, but is lacking confidence at the moment. Cappers is also very injury prone and often we only had McKernan to do the ruckwork.

As you have said we have blooded a lot of youngsters, but I think we have given them plenty of game time as well. Perhaps a few could have had a bit more, but we still have quite a few quality senior players who have performed for the club over a long period of time and I can understand why Pagan would want to give them a chance too.

Loyalty is very important and I love how Pagan shows loyalty to his players. If he didn't then what's the point of blooding youngsters? We would be continually blooding youngsters and never giving our senior players a go....

 

[Rooboy 34]

Originally posted by Briedis


I have seen the video (smartarse)

I thought that you might like that - I was smiling when I typed it. I think that most supporters have worn out their VCR's playing that tape...

I think that our fundamental difference of opinion centers around the game time given to the younger players. I feel that they should be given more of a go - you feel that they have been. I agree that we can't just let them all play at once, but when you are able to play 22 players, there should be more than just 1 or 2 rookies in any given side. I feel that the selectors should make some hard decisions now in relation to some of the older players so that in 2 or 3 seasons, we aren't forced to play 8 or 9 players with 20 or so games. Similar to the Aussie cricket side with the Waugh twins, we are going to be up the proverbial creek if Mick, Blakes, Spider, Stevo, Kingy & Arch all retire within a year or so of each other. If for examples the selectors retired Spider now, then Ports & Petrie basically have to play, which would mean that come the end of next season Petrie would be close to 50 games and hopefully starting to influence matches. The way that Denis brought Byron into the side was great, but he allowed Byron plenty of ground time in 98...

 

[windsock]

Originally posted by Briedis


The point is our side today is not much worse, if it is at all, then the one in 1999. I think it is better. Our midfield is much stronger and we have alot more depth. Our defence is better. I think our forward line is weaker, but that is developing as the year goes on.

/B]

Are you trying to wind us up?

 

[windsock]

Briedis saying Stevo isn't as good as he he was in 1999 makes perfect sense. I'm sure he would tell you himself that a reco at the age of thirty, as well as the glass incident and general soreness after playing the way he has for so long is not going to help him become a better as he gets older. These are all basic facts.
Malcolm Blight was a fu(king genius for Christ sake but that doesn't mean he is going to whack the boots on today and send in torps from 60 metres every day of the week. I hate to be the one to tell you Briedis but Cocoon was just a movie. We can't really get young or stay young. And when footballers get past about 28 or 29, they rarely get better (I'm sure you can give me examples - for every one I'll give you 20 against).
We aren't calling for over the top wholesale blooding of players before they are ready. Nor are we suggesting we have a team full of geriatric *******s that won't win a game. We are just being realistic. I think it is something you might have to contemplate in the next few weeks.

 

[tashibatts]

Windsock= I will give u 1 example, based on this years form - and a bit of last years:
Matthew Burton..

Go Roos