Time to make some changes with our List

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Moderator #51
We did draft well, but we still traded for Jolly and Ball (kinda) to imrpove the areas we needed to improve to win a flag. Same as Geelong did with Ottens.

If you guys are going to go after a decent forward or inside mid, you have to offer up quality. Players like Bower, McLean, Davies, Armfield are not worth anything. Hampson might get you something, but you need to offer up quality to get quality. What about someone like Walker or Betts? Both have had good seasons with good currency.

You might not like the idea or trading handy players, but you wont attract anything by offering Davies and a 3rd round pick.
What quality did you give up when you got recruited Jolly and Ball?
 

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Seen5

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#52
I'm all for looking to make changes in order to improve the list, but there is absolutely no need to make any knee-jerk reactions.
Agreed. We should also be focussing on developing players. Carrazzo, AJ are examples of players that have come from the rookie list - they have both continued to improve in 2011.

The Bullants have made VFL finals so it means that plenty of the youngsters are pushing for selection.

We should be looking for top up cheapies - like Duigan/Laidler - getting Waite and Kruezer up and running for finals and getting some games into the youngsters like Mitchell and Casboult.

We've got the core of a finals team that can go deep in September, Just need to keep adding that 10-15% improvement.
 

Nerv_01

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#53
Well it seems I have offended you, how I don't know, so I shall depart. There are many on your own board who want Fev back, is all I am saying. No need to be abusive, you're not the only one who lost a final over the weekend.
Probably best not to mention Fevola around here most are sick of hearing about him. When Fev left our membership dropped by 3000, the people round here who constantly call for Fev to come back supported him more than the club. Apparently he used pay out on young guys doing extra weights sessions, etc. We have improved a lot since he left and most think bringing him back will send us backwards.
 
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#54
We did draft well, but we still traded for Jolly and Ball (kinda) to imrpove the areas we needed to improve to win a flag. Same as Geelong did with Ottens.

If you guys are going to go after a decent forward or inside mid, you have to offer up quality. Players like Bower, McLean, Davies, Armfield are not worth anything. Hampson might get you something, but you need to offer up quality to get quality. What about someone like Walker or Betts? Both have had good seasons with good currency.

You might not like the idea or trading handy players, but you wont attract anything by offering Davies and a 3rd round pick.
What quality did you trade for Jolly/Ball? There are alternatives.
 

Ron

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#55
What quality did you trade for Jolly/Ball? There are alternatives.
We gave up a first and third round pick for Jolly, which was unders no doubt because Jolly wanted to come to us. As for Ball we got him cheap in the end, but there was a danger we might have missed him altogether, especially if the Dees actually had some balls. But we did offer combinations of (not just to the Saints) 2nd round pick, Wellingham and Goldsack to try and get him over.

Probably none of those are equal to the worth of Ball, especially Wellingham then as he has improved heaps. But at the end of 09 people thought Ball was finished anyway.

You are correct there are alternatives, especially for mature VFL and other league players. But after the success of Pods and Barlow and others every team is searching the lower leagues for good players, much harder to get one to sneak through now.
 

Blue and Silver

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#56
Wellingham would be the equivalent of a Lucas or Armfield circa 2009.

You traded draft picks and offered peanuts for Ball because he was coming anyway.

Yeah you have to lose some quality to get quality, but I think you underestimate Bower and Lucas worth. Paul was a first rounder, had a good season in 09' but has been struck by injuries. For the right team he could be a great pick up.

Lucas was a first rounder in 09' and was a surprise slider to 12 after it was anticipated he would be taken at 7.

Both have currency
 

ESKIE

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#57
We did give up Kennedy and a pic for Judd..we know how to trade, Bower has currency, and Lucas for sure, he is only young and has shown heaps.

Our blokes will come up with something, I get a feeling trade week will be hectic this year
 
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#58
Probably best not to mention Fevola around here most are sick of hearing about him. When Fev left our membership dropped by 3000, the people round here who constantly call for Fev to come back supported him more than the club. Apparently he used pay out on young guys doing extra weights sessions, etc. We have improved a lot since he left and most think bringing him back will send us backwards.
and as far as im concerned those 3000 members should never be allowed back to the club. Send them a Richmond membership application.
 
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#59
From what's been said here and there, Bower and Army are most likely to be traded with Aussie and Hoops off the senior list.

One normal draft pick with our Buckley pick. I'd look to trade our way into the top 10 draft picks.

Give Ed another year on the rookie list.
Aussie is not Austin I hope. I would pay out Brock to free up a spot
 
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#61
As valiant as our effort was tonight and without blaming any umpiring decisions of the fact that we probably were missing three important players in our team (Gibbs, Kruezer and Waite), I really believe we need to aggressively trade to become a serious contender for winning a flag.

It is plainly obvious that we require KKP's in out team, both in defence and in attack as we are lacking some serious big man power. Yes we have plenty of competent mid-sized players but lets face it how many mid-sized KKP win you games. Our reliance on talls such as setanta (don't get me wrong he tries but he is not going to win a game off his own boot) and Henderson in defence is like plugging holes in a sinking ship. As for Hammer, how much longer do we persevere with a guy who in the past 5 seasons has played maybe 5 good games of football.

It has been far too long that the club has traded for midfielders and selected medium sized players in the draft without finding a true gorilla for our forward line and in defence. We will continue to fall short by a kick or two ever time and to tell you the truth I am sick of it!
Lets get serious, if our recruiters are going to do a good job then lets get some tall timber who can present or at least split the pack for our crumbers to take the spoils. Imagine if we had Kennedy! We are in serious need of big bodied players who can take a grab or at least create a contest.

In the past 10 years all i have ever felt when the ball is moving to the forward line is the uncertainty of, is Fevola on or is he being a selfish F**k and having a missy fit, and other than that there has been no CHF to kick the ball to. As good as Waite is he is not a true CHF.
I think to move forward we need to aggressively trade players to flll the obvious void we have in out list. I for one would be happy to let go of players such as Hammer, Thornton, Austin, Davies, White, Setanta, Okeefe, Kerr, Casboult, Mclean and Bower for some draft picks. As ruthless as it seems none of these players are ever going to take us to the next level.

The window is only going to stay open for a couple of years and with the draft advantages for teams such as the SUNS and GWS if we don't strike now we will seriously be looking to win our next flag in 2020. Lets get serious and get rid of out flotsom and jetsom and have a crack while we still have a chance.

time to cut the dead wood away!

Go Blues!
Sheer panic. No need. We're tracking damn well. Some trading, not wholesale changes. We've got some depth, and things to trade this year, for the right deal.
 

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Teagueeee15

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#62
We did give up Kennedy and a pic for Judd..we know how to trade, Bower has currency, and Lucas for sure, he is only young and has shown heaps.

Our blokes will come up with something, I get a feeling trade week will be hectic this year
In previous years Bower certainly had currency, but he's had a year where he's suffered a couple of soft tissue injuries and has been frozen out of the seniors for most of the year. In addition he's now out of contract, so whatever value he did have is all but extinguished and we will be trading him when his value is at its lowest. I agree that Lucas has a lot of value on the trade table and injury permitting he will be a 200 game player.
 

djw1952

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#65
As valiant as our effort was tonight and without blaming any umpiring decisions of the fact that we probably were missing three important players in our team (Gibbs, Kruezer and Waite), I really believe we need to aggressively trade to become a serious contender for winning a flag.

It is plainly obvious that we require KKP's in out team, both in defence and in attack as we are lacking some serious big man power. Yes we have plenty of competent mid-sized players but lets face it how many mid-sized KKP win you games. Our reliance on talls such as setanta (don't get me wrong he tries but he is not going to win a game off his own boot) and Henderson in defence is like plugging holes in a sinking ship. As for Hammer, how much longer do we persevere with a guy who in the past 5 seasons has played maybe 5 good games of football.

It has been far too long that the club has traded for midfielders and selected medium sized players in the draft without finding a true gorilla for our forward line and in defence. We will continue to fall short by a kick or two ever time and to tell you the truth I am sick of it!
Lets get serious, if our recruiters are going to do a good job then lets get some tall timber who can present or at least split the pack for our crumbers to take the spoils. Imagine if we had Kennedy! We are in serious need of big bodied players who can take a grab or at least create a contest.

In the past 10 years all i have ever felt when the ball is moving to the forward line is the uncertainty of, is Fevola on or is he being a selfish F**k and having a missy fit, and other than that there has been no CHF to kick the ball to. As good as Waite is he is not a true CHF.
I think to move forward we need to aggressively trade players to flll the obvious void we have in out list. I for one would be happy to let go of players such as Hammer, Thornton, Austin, Davies, White, Setanta, Okeefe, Kerr, Casboult, Mclean and Bower for some draft picks. As ruthless as it seems none of these players are ever going to take us to the next level.

The window is only going to stay open for a couple of years and with the draft advantages for teams such as the SUNS and GWS if we don't strike now we will seriously be looking to win our next flag in 2020. Lets get serious and get rid of out flotsom and jetsom and have a crack while we still have a chance.

time to cut the dead wood away!

Go Blues!
especially WAYNE HUGHES, who for 3 drafts 2007-2008-2009 did not even look at recruiting kpp of any sort !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is not counting KREUZER, who is a ruckman and a number 1 pick and could not be ignored. we have lost finals because we have nobody who can be relied on to kick 4-5 goals like other teams above us, since FEV left. i think that HAMPSON was playing well before his injury and should be kept, because he can play in the ruck and up forward. i also think that THORNTON has been very handy for the team this year as a swingman and should be kept as well...i was not his biggest fan in the past, but he has been there when others have been missing and done the job. we may have won if he had not got injured last night. the WESTERN BULLDOGS have proven that a team cannot rely on smalls to win big finals for a team, and we rely on that as well. the seeds of this loss were sown back in 2007 like i said, and it was only last draft that CARLTON told HUGHES to pull his head in and pick KPP, but 3 years too late!!!!!!!!!!!!!! some people think you should stick strong with everything CARLTON,but our lack of tall marking power goes way back and AUSTIN & BOWER have done nothing to change this. most teams recruit a bit of everything ( as in kpp,mids,rucks,and flankers ) each draft, but not CARLTON !!! It seems that our recruiters take 3-4 of the same type each year, and i am sick to death of them doing that rubbish !!! looks like another long summer of soul searching for the MIGHTY BLUES. we can only hope that the cats can stop the MAGGOTS from equalling our number of premierships this season...........can you imagine them if they win it again...........WHAT A NIGHTMARE !!! EDDIE would rub it in all summer !!!:mad::eek::thumbsdown:::confused:
 

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#67
use JORDAN RUSSELL for trade bait i say. maybe MCLEAN to GWS or PORT if possible, as they both need experienced players with their young lists.they are both still contracted, but we need to try to grab an early pick to get a gun key forward kid, who can take a grab and at least give us more choice up forward in the long run. we have enough " link players " like RUSSELL, and he comes from ADELAIDE. we have to improve our chances of getting a KPF in this draft !!! no matter what !!!
 

gbatman

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#68
It's near impossible to get a tall forward that is any good in the trade period. They cost too much. The last one that was any good that went in a trade was Kennedy and it took the best player in the league to get him.

I wouldn't have high hopes of getting a tall forward in the draft.

This is what we should do. Pick up a tall forward in the rookie draft and in the national draft again if we think there is anyone with potential about there.

Remember we chased key position players last year so we have a few in their second year in 2012 who we can work on. McCarthy, Watson and Mitchell.

Watson must go on the same path as Michael Hurley has at Essendon. A defender as a junior who is being moulded into a vary good forward. Watson has the perfect build to be a forward and is the right type of athlete. Tall, heavy, slid, strong and powerful. Henderson has a lean, light weight athletic build and is more of a running player. He hasn't got the forward's build and has sown up CHB and that is where he must stay. Ideas of Hendo going forward and Watson going to CHB in 2012 aren't bad ideas but I think we will be better off not going in that directions and showing a little extra patience with Watson in much the same way we have done this year with Thornton, Yarran and Henderson all changing ends.

Watson has not had the fitness and tricks for AFL this year but a big preseason and all our high profile development people and coaches will get onto him about it and make him a power forward.

From what I have seen Watson hasn't got the contested marking tricks which hinders him more as a forward than a back and he seems to move in the wrong areas when up forward but if you iron these things out you will have a very good forward. This is also why he is a back and not a forward, at this level we can change this and being in his second year it will be perfect timing to make a positional change with him.

We do not have a position for a tall defender. Henderson is not a forward, we have tried to make him into one to suit our needs but he is a much better backman than a forward which has been shown. Jamison has full back sown up and if we retain Bower then it's all done and dusted when it comes to tall backs.

Watson is 195cm tall, built like a forward and strong. What he has over all our other talls is when he gets going he will be able to kick goals from outside 50 which none of our tall forwards can really do. Part of being a good CHF is the ability to kick goals from that position which means being able to kick them from 50 to 60 meters out.

Our plan should be to have Mitchell as our next full forward and Watson as our center half forward. This would make us a hell of a side down the track if this pans out as I vision it.

Our coaching staff need to get hold of Watson and work with him flat out and teach him to play forward and how to use his body to out mark opponants.
 

FULACH

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#69
In previous years Bower certainly had currency, but he's had a year where he's suffered a couple of soft tissue injuries and has been frozen out of the seniors for most of the year. In addition he's now out of contract, so whatever value he did have is all but extinguished and we will be trading him when his value is at its lowest. I agree that Lucas has a lot of value on the trade table and injury permitting he will be a 200 game player.
Agree with this and hence why I believe Freo maybe looking at him.

Id imagine we'd offer a 3rd rounder and you guys would all cut sick and say how he was nearly AA back in the day and when he is at his best he is worth Fyfe minimum.

Honestly what do you think would get the deal done? Id imagine fringe for fringe or our 3rd rounder.
 

djholmes

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#71
First 22 for next season

B: Thornton--------Lake*---------Laidler

H: Russell---------Jamison--------Yarran

C: Scotland-------Gibbs----------Robinson

H: Walker--------Henderson-------Simpson

F: Garlett---------Waite-----------Betts

RR: Krezuer, Judd, Murphy

Bench: Warnock, Duigan, McLean, Sub: Lucas
 

Bluebear

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#72
It is plainly obvious that we require KKP's in out team, both in defence and in attack as we are lacking some serious big man power. Yes we have plenty of competent mid-sized players but lets face it how many mid-sized KKP win you games. Our reliance on talls such as setanta (don't get me wrong he tries but he is not going to win a game off his own boot) and Henderson in defence is like plugging holes in a sinking ship.

It has been far too long that the club has traded for midfielders and selected medium sized players in the draft without finding a true gorilla for our forward line and in defence. We will continue to fall short by a kick or two ever time and to tell you the truth I am sick of it!
Murphy and Simpson kick those goals and we are playing this week. Our height would be unchanged.

We recruited Jamison. Until injured AA full back.
We recruited Bower, excellent second tall when fit.
We traded for Henderson. I maintain will be a good CHF, but if not, has rarely been beaten in his first year as a key defender. Not a bad "plug".

We recruited almost exclusively tall last draft. The last trade before Judd was for neither a small nor a meduim........but for Warnok who many lamented at the time.


Going into last night we were "too short" yet in a hostile environment we got screwed out of a win.

You are the very definition of a "chicken little" IMO.


Lets get serious, if our recruiters are going to do a good job then lets get some tall timber who can present or at least split the pack for our crumbers to take the spoils. Imagine if we had Kennedy! We are in serious need of big bodied players who can take a grab or at least create a contest.
Imagine if we did. His name is Lachie Henderson, and he is looking every bit the player that Kennedy was at the same age. Hendo is 21.
I think to move forward we need to aggressively trade players to flll the obvious void we have in out list. I for one would be happy to let go of players such as Hammer, Thornton, Austin, Davies, White, Setanta, Okeefe, Kerr, Casboult, Mclean and Bower for some draft picks.

time to cut the dead wood away!
Void?
Casbouolt is showing great potential. Bower, may get fit, and if he does is very bit a part of our next flag.

Relax. We are on the up. Some tinkering with the list may be required, and a big forward would be nice, but lts not panic.
 

TOPBLUE_25

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#73
Injury free round 1 2012 I would say our best 22 would be

Duigan: Jamison: Bower
Yarran: Henderson: Laidler

Scotland: Murphy: Simpson

Betts: Waite: Thornton
Walker: Hampson: Garlett

Warnock: Judd: Gibbs

Int: Kreuzer: Carrazzo: Russell: Robinson

2nd 22
Joseph, Watson, Armfeild, McInnes, McCarthy, Touhy, Davies, McClean, Lucas, White, MItchell, Collins, Dare, Casboult, Kerr, Setanta, Ellard, Curnow, O'keefe, Twomey, Carter, Houlihan and Austin

Bolded are players who could be delisted/traded for picks/rookie upgrades etc in my opinion. (not saying I want them gone for example I'd like us to keep white.)
 
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Moderator #75
especially WAYNE HUGHES, who for 3 drafts 2007-2008-2009 did not even look at recruiting kpp of any sort !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is not counting KREUZER, who is a ruckman and a number 1 pick and could not be ignored. we have lost finals because we have nobody who can be relied on to kick 4-5 goals like other teams above us, since FEV left. i think that HAMPSON was playing well before his injury and should be kept, because he can play in the ruck and up forward. i also think that THORNTON has been very handy for the team this year as a swingman and should be kept as well...i was not his biggest fan in the past, but he has been there when others have been missing and done the job. we may have won if he had not got injured last night. the WESTERN BULLDOGS have proven that a team cannot rely on smalls to win big finals for a team, and we rely on that as well. the seeds of this loss were sown back in 2007 like i said, and it was only last draft that CARLTON told HUGHES to pull his head in and pick KPP, but 3 years too late!!!!!!!!!!!!!! some people think you should stick strong with everything CARLTON,but our lack of tall marking power goes way back and AUSTIN & BOWER have done nothing to change this. most teams recruit a bit of everything ( as in kpp,mids,rucks,and flankers ) each draft, but not CARLTON !!! It seems that our recruiters take 3-4 of the same type each year, and i am sick to death of them doing that rubbish !!! looks like another long summer of soul searching for the MIGHTY BLUES. we can only hope that the cats can stop the MAGGOTS from equalling our number of premierships this season...........can you imagine them if they win it again...........WHAT A NIGHTMARE !!! EDDIE would rub it in all summer !!!:mad::eek::thumbsdown:::confused:
Seriously? How would you know Hughes was told to pull his head in? He doesn't have the final say in our recruiting, he just presents the information to the coaching staff and they choose accordingly. They don't have to follow his recommendations so there is nothing to pull his head in over.

By the WAY, what's with the random CAPITALISATION?
 
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