Time to move on Conditioning Staff

Scham

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Sep 19, 2004
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The last four straight years we have been hard by injuries.

Is it time to move on staff?

Are doing the same things and expecting a different result?

They’ve been shithouse for longer than that but this year has been their best so it’s the wrong time to start this thread imo. They definitely seem to be trying new ideas since the crisis towards the end of preseason.

Having said that, I’d still be punting Weber at years end.
 

Nodgey

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All clubs bring players back too soon. See Buddy last night. But I still shudder at some decisions we’ve made.

And I was never convinced a rugby man could get AFL players to optimal fitness but we’ve run out games well this year.
 

fnerd

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Yeah my beefs never really been with our fitness as such more the mismanagement of players and their injuries.
Predominantly Harley (likely lost cause anyway) and shill.

Clearly theyve got us fit (tho I do wonder at what cost.-
(Again I note ross commenting on Harley’s calves on his first contract with us about making them “bullet proof”, pretty much conceding they overloaded him)
As for hilly see his current return - too early or even the delayed decision to put him into surgery last year.

It just seems at some stage the wheel turns for you as a club and really does seem like it’s never actually turned for us and doesn’t even look look like it will.
 

rgauci

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It’s the way the club is run. It’s short term gain for long term pain instead of vica versa. Stephen Hill is thrown to the wolves early in his career. Has a real early spike in form and is tagged from about his 30th game. He’s ground down and ends up chronically injured. Battered, bruised and spat out by the system by his late 20s. Contrast that story with Luke Schuey. Chronically injured in his early years. Missed large chunks of footy. Had recurring hammy’s. They look after him. Ease him in. Build his body. Give him rests when he’s battered. Ultimately he becomes a norm smith medalist. Late 20’s he’s durable and winning matches. Simple example but it occurs over and over and over again at Fremantle. They take a short sighted view. They’ve finally clicked in my opinion. Building Sturt up was a god send. But they don’t do it often enough yet.

If you can maintain a players career at the peak of their powers for longer, that’s what wins premierships. Enough players in that window where they are elite.

We don’t do that well. We need to get better at harnessing each individual within the squad.

The constant dribble about accelerated growth, fast tracking development, banging games into youngsters is a club ethos and it’s at the root of the problem.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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It’s the way the club is run. It’s short term gain for long term pain instead of vica versa. Stephen Hill is thrown to the wolves early in his career. Has a real early spike in form and is tagged from about his 30th game. He’s ground down and ends up chronically injured. Battered, bruised and spat out by the system by his late 20s. Contrast that story with Luke Schuey. Chronically injured in his early years. Missed large chunks of footy. Had recurring hammy’s. They look after him. Ease him in. Build his body. Give him rests when he’s battered. Ultimately he becomes a norm smith medalist. Late 20’s he’s durable and winning matches. Simple example but it occurs over and over and over again at Fremantle. They take a short sighted view. They’ve finally clicked in my opinion. Building Sturt up was a god send. But they don’t do it often enough yet.

If you can maintain a players career at the peak of their powers for longer, that’s what wins premierships. Enough players in that window where they are elite.

We don’t do that well. We need to get better at harnessing each individual within the squad.

The constant dribble about accelerated growth, fast tracking development, banging games into youngsters is a club ethos and it’s at the root of the problem.
Agree.
Case in point: Hogan. Absolutely pushed to play by round 1. Forced to start the season underdone. Not ideal at all.
Cautious approach isn’t their forte.
Stephen Hill repeatedly pushed to come back early. Bennell not properly managed. Feel like young players are pushed above and beyond their capabilities.
 

Scham

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It’s the way the club is run. It’s short term gain for long term pain instead of vica versa. Stephen Hill is thrown to the wolves early in his career. Has a real early spike in form and is tagged from about his 30th game. He’s ground down and ends up chronically injured. Battered, bruised and spat out by the system by his late 20s. Contrast that story with Luke Schuey. Chronically injured in his early years. Missed large chunks of footy. Had recurring hammy’s. They look after him. Ease him in. Build his body. Give him rests when he’s battered. Ultimately he becomes a norm smith medalist. Late 20’s he’s durable and winning matches. Simple example but it occurs over and over and over again at Fremantle. They take a short sighted view. They’ve finally clicked in my opinion. Building Sturt up was a god send. But they don’t do it often enough yet.

If you can maintain a players career at the peak of their powers for longer, that’s what wins premierships. Enough players in that window where they are elite.

We don’t do that well. We need to get better at harnessing each individual within the squad.

The constant dribble about accelerated growth, fast tracking development, banging games into youngsters is a club ethos and it’s at the root of the problem.

Nothing wrong with banging games into youngsters, WC are doing it to good affect. But the rest of what you said is right about the individual management of each player and taking a long term view.

Hill isn’t having trouble now because of his early games imo, it’s more the games through the middle of his career where he was clearly played while carrying an injury (or injuries).
 

Nodgey

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I’ve always maintained that the approach of bringing players back too early shortens careers. If you rest them when needed, sacrifice a few games, you can get an extra few seasons at the end of their careers. So short sighted. The AFLPA should be all over it, but I guess the players always want to play.
 

Cobbler

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Absolutely time to move on. All clubs go through ups and downs but ours our repetitive and long lasting.

If your job is to condition the players and they fail then the proof is in the pudding.

Would anyone keep anyone that was failing at their job??
 

arsesmart

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Sep 25, 2018
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Injuries are a very emotional thing. Footy's a very very emotional thing for supporters. Most every club's supporters would feel their club has the worst of it. So until I see some solid data I wouldn't be passing any definitive judgement on the S&C guys. But...

Given how many of the long term injury guys run into complications and/or never get back out on the park, the S&C guys don't really meet the excellence standard of indispensability, so I reckon a change might be worth it as you give yourself a chance to go out and hire someone who does (if you get the selection process right).
 

theGav56

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Injuries are a very emotional thing. Footy's a very very emotional thing for supporters. Most every club's supporters would feel their club has the worst of it. So until I see some solid data I wouldn't be passing any definitive judgement on the S&C guys. But...

Given how many of the long term injury guys run into complications and/or never get back out on the park, the S&C guys don't really meet the excellence standard of indispensability, so I reckon a change might be worth it as you give yourself a chance to go out and hire someone who does (if you get the selection process right).
I agree with what you are saying about seeing data that actually benchmarks us against other clubs.

I worry that simply looking at injuries is a bit narrow. The way we have a young side running out 4 quarters is pretty impressive. Rather than wholesale changes there may be some areas that can be improved.

How a big a field is out there in terms of experienced S&C professionals at the high end? I have no idea. Are they long-term contracted?
 

arsesmart

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I agree with what you are saying about seeing data that actually benchmarks us against other clubs.

I worry that simply looking at injuries is a bit narrow. The way we have a young side running out 4 quarters is pretty impressive. Rather than wholesale changes there may be some areas that can be improved.

How a big a field is out there in terms of experienced S&C professionals at the high end? I have no idea. Are they long-term contracted?
You're right on ensuring it's a holistic picture to be accounted for with S&C.

If Webber is an asset on that fitness strength score, they should set a measurable goal where Freo's to be the AFL gold standard for injury management/rehab and task him (or someone) with headhunting the right people to help this happen.
 

Scham

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My take on it is we buy dodgy used cars from other people (clubs)and then blame our mechanics(fitness staff) when they can't fix it.

Nah can’t agree with that. Bennell played plenty of footy with GC, Hill has only been with us, so too Sandi and Tabs.

Who else has been injury prone that our guys are getting blamed for?
 
May 2, 2007
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This thread is very funny, classic Big Footy and the sports fan in general.

I mean really, how would some bloke that works as, I dunno and accountant or plumber or whatever during the week that's only contact with the players is watching on the TV from their couch or 100m away up in the stands have any informed opinion on how competent these sorts of staff are at a football club?

Do you really think the people running the club aren't making sure we have the absolute best people available in these roles?

Maybe they aren't any good but to think you have any idea unless you are on the inner sanctum or at the very least trained in this area yourself is laughable.
 
Aug 16, 2009
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This thread is very funny, classic Big Footy and the sports fan in general.

I mean really, how would some bloke that works as, I dunno and accountant or plumber or whatever during the week that's only contact with the players is watching on the TV from their couch or 100m away up in the stands have any informed opinion on how competent these sorts of staff are at a football club?

Do you really think the people running the club aren't making sure we have the absolute best people available in these roles?

Maybe they aren't any good but to think you have any idea unless you are on the inner sanctum or at the very least trained in this area yourself is laughable.
This is a topic I follow closely. I have posted often with links to facts and figures.

There is no doubt we are poor at having a fit and available list. However the reasons for that are not clear, as the info in the media is not detailed enough. Keeping players like Morabito, Silvagni, Bennel and Apeness on the list for extended lengths of time and playing very little football contributes to making our numbers poor. Whether we didn’t investigate these players enough before bringing them in, whether other clubs are more ruthless at cutting these types of players, whether we ruined these players or they just didn’t have the bodies, I don’t know. Maybe having these players on the list has not been a negative as it builds loyalty.

One thing I am sure of is that we do poorly on fit and available list measures.
 

Scham

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This thread is very funny, classic Big Footy and the sports fan in general.

I mean really, how would some bloke that works as, I dunno and accountant or plumber or whatever during the week that's only contact with the players is watching on the TV from their couch or 100m away up in the stands have any informed opinion on how competent these sorts of staff are at a football club?

Do you really think the people running the club aren't making sure we have the absolute best people available in these roles?

Maybe they aren't any good but to think you have any idea unless you are on the inner sanctum or at the very least trained in this area yourself is laughable.

Just like all the 1000’s of accountants, plumbers, retirees and students that protest against climate change. They should just stay home eh? They don’t have any idea either.
 

Cesoir

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Just like all the 1000’s of accountants, plumbers, retirees and students that protest against climate change. They should just stay home eh? They don’t have any idea either.
Just like all the 1000’s of accountants, plumbers, retirees and students that deny climate change is a thing. They should just stay home eh? They don’t have any idea either.

Exactly!
 

malpaso

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Just like all the 1000’s of accountants, plumbers, retirees and students that protest against climate change. They should just stay home eh? They don’t have any idea either.
Hahah, draw a long bow why don't you..
 
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