Time to re-think the secondary markets

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Walshawk

Premiership Player
Mar 24, 2017
3,155
3,521
Blackburn
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Let's assume Tassie comes in the next five years as team 19. This is the perfect opportunity to maximise the benefits to the comp and the code of teams playing games in smaller markets.
Currently
Launceston - Hawks x 4 (year by year contract)
Hobart - North x 4 (year by year)
GWS - Canberra x 3 (year by year)
GC - Darwin x 1 (contract ends next year)
Saints - Cairns x 1 (year by year @ $650K) -
Dogs - Ballarat x 2 (part of Vic Govt funding of Marvel upgrades deal)
Dees - 1 x Alice Springs

North and Hawks = eight games to be played elsewhere. Saints are unhappy with on field - weather/results, and it makes no sense for a Vic club to be playing in Queensland while the Suns play in NT. All contract end this year or next.

Possible new venues
Albury - Stadium just upgraded - only 1500 grandstand but decent facilities and total capacity for around 15K. AFL heartland crowds would be string, hopefully council comes to the party with incentives
Newcastle - Currently being upgraded, only 800 grandstand but similar sized hills to Albury.
Townsville - has hosted one AFL game, capacity is 9k
Wellington - has hosted two Saints games capacity is 25K. There is talk of Western Springs in Auckland being expanded to suit AFL, but that could be a decade away.

Based on what we saw during 2020/21 is that clubs playing one off games in new markets will draw a big crowd (Vioc club games in Pert, Tassie, GC, etc), so rather than continue with the current model of clubs adopting regions (until fans get sick of that club), I am suggesting rotating clubs through these markets, rather than one club wearing out their welcome like North in Hobart. The one exception to this would be to send GC back to Queensland, and North take over NT. Now that their on field woes are fixed, GC can hand over the NT Academy to North who need it now. Also it is time for GWS to fully embrace Western Sydney with a name change and more games in Western Sydney, but they can maintain their memberships in Canberra via away games. IF they are not going to have a 100% crack at Western Sydney, you might as well move them to Canberra (that is a discussion for another time).

New structure once Tassie come in:-
Darwin - North x 1.
Albury - North x 1
Ballarat - Dogs x 1, Saints x 1
Newcastle - Dees x 1 (same colours as Knights, or could put Giants here and Dees in Canberra). It is crazy to have no games in a city of 550K (Newcastle/Maitland), with another 350K between Newcastle and Sydney on the Central Coast.
Canberra - Hawks, Saints, Dogs, North, GWS x 1 (over Easter show). GWS also away team x 2, so maintaining their three games and fan base. Five games, the AFL can really test their appetite for footy.
Cairns - GC x 1

This spread will ensure better crowds at games which is what the AFL and broadcaster want. Clubs get a set fee play a major share of the gate to ensure games are promoted properly. These should be promotional games, not just designed to fill the pockets of struggling clubs.

I have no games at Alice Springs - tiny town, with a substandard venue, crowds of 5k - 7k are more suited to preseason or AFLW.

This discussion is predicated upon Tassie entering the comp as team 19 in the next five years, and also assumes no 20th team in the next decade, so no discussion of that please.

What are your suggestions?
 

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
73,317
115,031
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What are you trying to achieve?

Easy money for the clubs? For them to own that market? To promote Aussie Rules there because they wont get a team for 20-50 years if ever? I reckon the priority of the answers to these 3 questions, sets the agenda.
 

The_Wookie

Queenslander
Jul 2, 2010
35,876
33,674
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Let's assume Tassie comes in the next five years as team 19. This is the perfect opportunity to maximise the benefits to the comp and the code of teams playing games in smaller markets.
Currently
Launceston - Hawks x 4 (year by year contract)
Hobart - North x 4 (year by year)
GWS - Canberra x 3 (year by year)
GC - Darwin x 1 (contract ends next year)
Saints - Cairns x 1 (year by year @ $650K) -
Dogs - Ballarat x 2 (part of Vic Govt funding of Marvel upgrades deal)
Dees - 1 x Alice Springs

North and Hawks = eight games to be played elsewhere. Saints are unhappy with on field - weather/results, and it makes no sense for a Vic club to be playing in Queensland while the Suns play in NT. All contract end this year or next.

Possible new venues
Albury - Stadium just upgraded - only 1500 grandstand but decent facilities and total capacity for around 15K. AFL heartland crowds would be string, hopefully council comes to the party with incentives
Newcastle - Currently being upgraded, only 800 grandstand but similar sized hills to Albury.
Townsville - has hosted one AFL game, capacity is 9k
Wellington - has hosted two Saints games capacity is 25K. There is talk of Western Springs in Auckland being expanded to suit AFL, but that could be a decade away.

Based on what we saw during 2020/21 is that clubs playing one off games in new markets will draw a big crowd (Vioc club games in Pert, Tassie, GC, etc), so rather than continue with the current model of clubs adopting regions (until fans get sick of that club), I am suggesting rotating clubs through these markets, rather than one club wearing out their welcome like North in Hobart. The one exception to this would be to send GC back to Queensland, and North take over NT. Now that their on field woes are fixed, GC can hand over the NT Academy to North who need it now. Also it is time for GWS to fully embrace Western Sydney with a name change and more games in Western Sydney, but they can maintain their memberships in Canberra via away games. IF they are not going to have a 100% crack at Western Sydney, you might as well move them to Canberra (that is a discussion for another time).

New structure once Tassie come in:-
Darwin - North x 1.
Albury - North x 1
Ballarat - Dogs x 1, Saints x 1
Newcastle - Dees x 1 (same colours as Knights, or could put Giants here and Dees in Canberra). It is crazy to have no games in a city of 550K (Newcastle/Maitland), with another 350K between Newcastle and Sydney on the Central Coast.
Canberra - Hawks, Saints, Dogs, North, GWS x 1 (over Easter show). GWS also away team x 2, so maintaining their three games and fan base. Five games, the AFL can really test their appetite for footy.
Cairns - GC x 1

This spread will ensure better crowds at games which is what the AFL and broadcaster want. Clubs get a set fee play a major share of the gate to ensure games are promoted properly. These should be promotional games, not just designed to fill the pockets of struggling clubs.

I have no games at Alice Springs - tiny town, with a substandard venue, crowds of 5k - 7k are more suited to preseason or AFLW.

This discussion is predicated upon Tassie entering the comp as team 19 in the next five years, and also assumes no 20th team in the next decade, so no discussion of that please.

What are your suggestions?

Tassie is going to be a secondary market by every measure. We can start your thing off by just not having it.
 

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fargothegreat

It's time for Tasmania to join the AFL.
Oct 8, 2011
7,580
20,539
Hobart
AFL Club
Richmond
Let's assume Tassie comes in the next five years as team 19. This is the perfect opportunity to maximise the benefits to the comp and the code of teams playing games in smaller markets.
Currently
Launceston - Hawks x 4 (year by year contract)
Hobart - North x 4 (year by year)
GWS - Canberra x 3 (year by year)
GC - Darwin x 1 (contract ends next year)
Saints - Cairns x 1 (year by year @ $650K) -
Dogs - Ballarat x 2 (part of Vic Govt funding of Marvel upgrades deal)
Dees - 1 x Alice Springs

North and Hawks = eight games to be played elsewhere. Saints are unhappy with on field - weather/results, and it makes no sense for a Vic club to be playing in Queensland while the Suns play in NT. All contract end this year or next.

Possible new venues
Albury - Stadium just upgraded - only 1500 grandstand but decent facilities and total capacity for around 15K. AFL heartland crowds would be string, hopefully council comes to the party with incentives
Newcastle - Currently being upgraded, only 800 grandstand but similar sized hills to Albury.
Townsville - has hosted one AFL game, capacity is 9k
Wellington - has hosted two Saints games capacity is 25K. There is talk of Western Springs in Auckland being expanded to suit AFL, but that could be a decade away.

Based on what we saw during 2020/21 is that clubs playing one off games in new markets will draw a big crowd (Vioc club games in Pert, Tassie, GC, etc), so rather than continue with the current model of clubs adopting regions (until fans get sick of that club), I am suggesting rotating clubs through these markets, rather than one club wearing out their welcome like North in Hobart. The one exception to this would be to send GC back to Queensland, and North take over NT. Now that their on field woes are fixed, GC can hand over the NT Academy to North who need it now. Also it is time for GWS to fully embrace Western Sydney with a name change and more games in Western Sydney, but they can maintain their memberships in Canberra via away games. IF they are not going to have a 100% crack at Western Sydney, you might as well move them to Canberra (that is a discussion for another time).

New structure once Tassie come in:-
Darwin - North x 1.
Albury - North x 1
Ballarat - Dogs x 1, Saints x 1
Newcastle - Dees x 1 (same colours as Knights, or could put Giants here and Dees in Canberra). It is crazy to have no games in a city of 550K (Newcastle/Maitland), with another 350K between Newcastle and Sydney on the Central Coast.
Canberra - Hawks, Saints, Dogs, North, GWS x 1 (over Easter show). GWS also away team x 2, so maintaining their three games and fan base. Five games, the AFL can really test their appetite for footy.
Cairns - GC x 1

This spread will ensure better crowds at games which is what the AFL and broadcaster want. Clubs get a set fee play a major share of the gate to ensure games are promoted properly. These should be promotional games, not just designed to fill the pockets of struggling clubs.

I have no games at Alice Springs - tiny town, with a substandard venue, crowds of 5k - 7k are more suited to preseason or AFLW.

This discussion is predicated upon Tassie entering the comp as team 19 in the next five years, and also assumes no 20th team in the next decade, so no discussion of that please.

What are your suggestions?
Most important thing is one team per market, and an appropriate team in each market. No point having a Vic team playing in Queensland, when a Queensland team is looking to sell games.

Gold Coast
  • Cairns x 1, Townsville x 1 + QLD Academy
North
  • Darwin x 2 + NT Academy
GWS
  • Canberra x 3 + ACT Academy
Dogs
  • Ballarat x 2
Melbourne
  • Newcastle x 1
St Kilda
  • Wellington x 1, Auckland x 1 (AFL should push for stadium to be built) + NZ Academy
 

Kwality

Hall of Famer
Aug 14, 2011
39,770
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Let's assume Tassie comes in the next five years as team 19. This is the perfect opportunity to maximise the benefits to the comp and the code of teams playing games in smaller markets.
Currently
Launceston - Hawks x 4 (year by year contract)
Hobart - North x 4 (year by year)
GWS - Canberra x 3 (year by year)
GC - Darwin x 1 (contract ends next year)
Saints - Cairns x 1 (year by year @ $650K) -
Dogs - Ballarat x 2 (part of Vic Govt funding of Marvel upgrades deal)
Dees - 1 x Alice Springs

North and Hawks = eight games to be played elsewhere. Saints are unhappy with on field - weather/results, and it makes no sense for a Vic club to be playing in Queensland while the Suns play in NT. All contract end this year or next.

Possible new venues
Albury - Stadium just upgraded - only 1500 grandstand but decent facilities and total capacity for around 15K. AFL heartland crowds would be string, hopefully council comes to the party with incentives
Newcastle - Currently being upgraded, only 800 grandstand but similar sized hills to Albury.
Townsville - has hosted one AFL game, capacity is 9k
Wellington - has hosted two Saints games capacity is 25K. There is talk of Western Springs in Auckland being expanded to suit AFL, but that could be a decade away.

Based on what we saw during 2020/21 is that clubs playing one off games in new markets will draw a big crowd (Vioc club games in Pert, Tassie, GC, etc), so rather than continue with the current model of clubs adopting regions (until fans get sick of that club), I am suggesting rotating clubs through these markets, rather than one club wearing out their welcome like North in Hobart. The one exception to this would be to send GC back to Queensland, and North take over NT. Now that their on field woes are fixed, GC can hand over the NT Academy to North who need it now. Also it is time for GWS to fully embrace Western Sydney with a name change and more games in Western Sydney, but they can maintain their memberships in Canberra via away games. IF they are not going to have a 100% crack at Western Sydney, you might as well move them to Canberra (that is a discussion for another time).

New structure once Tassie come in:-
Darwin - North x 1.
Albury - North x 1
Ballarat - Dogs x 1, Saints x 1
Newcastle - Dees x 1 (same colours as Knights, or could put Giants here and Dees in Canberra). It is crazy to have no games in a city of 550K (Newcastle/Maitland), with another 350K between Newcastle and Sydney on the Central Coast.
Canberra - Hawks, Saints, Dogs, North, GWS x 1 (over Easter show). GWS also away team x 2, so maintaining their three games and fan base. Five games, the AFL can really test their appetite for footy.
Cairns - GC x 1

This spread will ensure better crowds at games which is what the AFL and broadcaster want. Clubs get a set fee play a major share of the gate to ensure games are promoted properly. These should be promotional games, not just designed to fill the pockets of struggling clubs.

I have no games at Alice Springs - tiny town, with a substandard venue, crowds of 5k - 7k are more suited to preseason or AFLW.

This discussion is predicated upon Tassie entering the comp as team 19 in the next five years, and also assumes no 20th team in the next decade, so no discussion of that please.

What are your suggestions?

Where is the money coming from ?
 

kranger

All Australian
Nov 30, 2006
619
529
Kalamunda
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Swan District
I like this thread. I was thinking about starting something very similar where we can discuss all the games that get sold to different locations, instead always talking about it in threads for Tasmanian or Canberra.

On that point, is there any chance of getting all of the Tassie threads merged into one. And likewise, getting all the Canberra threads merged into one?
 

Kwality

Hall of Famer
Aug 14, 2011
39,770
14,874
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Same place it does now. State and local government looking to boost spending and tourism in the area.

I am cynical of these arrangements. Where successful they are transparent, e.g the Hawks/Tassie deal that is/was more than 'selling a game'.
Not many fill that bill.
 

kranger

All Australian
Nov 30, 2006
619
529
Kalamunda
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If Tasmania does get a team, would Hawks still look to sell games, or would they settle back into Melbourne?

They seem to be a lot better off compared to when they started down in Tassie.
 

kranger

All Australian
Nov 30, 2006
619
529
Kalamunda
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Swan District
It seems like Melbourne is saturated with games, which is why so many games are sold to secondary markets. But that is great thing, because those secondary markets are never going to be home to a team.

I think all of the non Melbourne teams need to play as many games at their home venue as possible (i.e. GWS, Geelong, Gold Coast).

Any games that get played in regional NSW and QLD, like Newcastle and Townsville should be home games for the Melbourne based teams.

But the away team in the game is always a respective NSW or QLD team. That way the Melbourne team gets the cash, and the NSW and QLD team gets more local exposure.

So an example would be:

Year 1:
Newcastle - St Kilda vs Sydney
Wollongong - North Melbourne vs GWS
Townsville - St Kilda vs Brisbane
Cairns - North Melbourne vs Gold Coast

Year 2:
Newcastle - St Kilda vs GWS
Wollongong - North Melbourne vs Sydney
Townsville - St Kilda vs Gold Coast
Cairns - North Melbourne vs Brisbane

Repeat
 

Walshawk

Premiership Player
Mar 24, 2017
3,155
3,521
Blackburn
AFL Club
Hawthorn
If Tasmania does get a team, would Hawks still look to sell games, or would they settle back into Melbourne?

They seem to be a lot better off compared to when they started down in Tassie.
Our current president will put money before anything else. But he will be gone soon. We need to do what is best for our members (as many MCG games as possible) and our on field success (as many MCG games as possible). There is not reason we should not get as many MCG games as MelBourne (10). Pies get 9 and Tigers 10 this year. I would be happy with a game or two at another secondary venue as long as we get 9 at MCG.
 

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