Analysis Time to Reinstate Zones.

Drake Huggins

Club Legend
May 2, 2018
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In typical saints' fashion, we have completely missed out in the father son provisions. For some unknown reason, none of our former champions are much chop at producing Y sex chromosomes. On the plus side, our women's team should be awesome over the next decade or so, but I digress.

In the 70's we were given Moorabbin, Cheltenham and the bayside suburbs down to Mentone as our suburban zone, just as all the young families left the area.

The drought lasted two decades. We lost Frankston, the Peninsula and surrounds to Hawthorn. Bentleigh and its surrounds were handed to Melbourne, for some unfathomable reasons.

Keysborough, Springvale, Clayton and Dingley were still mainly market gardens, farmlets or places where newly arrived migrants settled.

The peninsula was where young families were going and growing. Enter Hawthorn. Moore, the Matthews, Brereton, Mew, and others too many to mention was the result. The adjacent West Gippsland area was gifted to them as well. Tuck, Knights,the Abletts, the Dears et al. helped create a two decade long dynasty right there. They even had Loewey, but let him go and Bevo pounced.

I played at school with Gerard and Greg Healy. Edithvale boys, mad sainters whose dad ran the iconic Saints Social Club for many years. Zoned to Melbourne. The Fidges, Bevo, and several others lived on the wrong side of South Road, so had to go to Melbourne. They could almost see the Moorabbin ground from their front doors and couldn't play for us.

We got Mark Kellett and GT, both St.Bede's boys. Mickey Roberts from Beaumaris. Our only good area was Ballarat. At least we got Plugger, Spud, the Cunninghams, Burns, Perovic and Gellie amongst others.

Handy players like Kiel, Tweeddale, O'Keefe, Odgers, Mick Frawley and Jeff Dunne were good, but for whatever reason, none realised their full potential. Mick Frawley is the one that sticks in my craw. Gun CHF who could've been anything, but didn't thrive and went back to being a bush champion.

Fast forward to the late '90's. I moved back into the area. Having grown up a Jeff Fehring torpedo from our spiritual home, I brought my progeny back to live in Hampton to play with East Sandy, the feeder to the Dragons.

Imagine if the Dragons were our designated feeder club, as was the original proposal when the under 18s were created.

Judd, Ball, the Kings, and too many other top ten picks to mention over the past two decades. Flags would've been a given, when you consider up to seven Dragons were picked every year, with many of them becoming A grade, or elite. Most of the East Sandy players were saints' fans, with Auskick and training dominated by St.Kilda jumpers. Even ex-president Butterssssssss coached the Zebbie juniors.

Oh, what might have been! It would've made sense to align clubs with the feeders in their geographical areas and appropriate country zones. Instead of academies, we could simply allocate two priority draft picks a year from the relevant club or zones, in exchange for clubs putting resources into clubs and zones, helping development. I know clubs do it already, but formalising the processes would improve structures, wealth and enhance playing standards.

Under my cunning, Baldrick-like plan, the Sandringham Dragons would be our fedeer club, with us receiving two free hits in the draft each year. For example, 2001, Judd and Ball. 2018, max and Ben King. Yum, yum. Others will have good examples.

Our natural suburban area would be the Bayside, all the way from Brighton to Portsea. We could even be cheeky and throw in the Greater Dandenong area, especially with the flood of Eastern African migrants from the Sudan, Ethiopa, Eritrea et al. Players like Aliir Aliir, Daw, Chol and soon to become our very own Biggy, come to mind.

Satan, Matt and Fred should be lobbying Gil and Shocking to make it happen. Not only would it ensure our survival, but would almost guarantee ongoing success. It sure beats the thought of eventuslly getting Tassie as our exclusive zone, if you get my drift.

Make it so, number one and Satan!
 

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Drake Huggins

Club Legend
May 2, 2018
2,124
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The ghost of the G.G. Huggins Stand
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You're back, Pluggs! Reports of your death were greatly exaggerated! And so good to see you start back in tip top form. That encouraging reply was like watching a crisp, Steve Smith on drive for four. If you're a pom.😀

Seriously, glad to see you back.
I've been struggling with my stats 80% of the time, altgough I've been solid for the other 50%. Can you help a brother?
 
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plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
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You're back, Pluggs! Reports of your death were greatly exaggerated! And so good to see you start back in tip top form. That encouraging reply was like watching a crisp, Steve Smith on drive for four. If you're a pom.😀

Seriously, glad to see you back.
I've been struggling with my stats 80% of the time, altgough I've been solid for the other 50%. Can you help a brother?
It seems you just aren’t good at percentages. When I have that issue I enlist the help of the internet for 97% of the time and the other 14% is just pure guesswork. As for reinstating zones well it just won’t happen because whilst it would be great for us being in the private school system zone it would be terrible for most other sides.
 

Yawkey way

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May 8, 2017
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It seems you just aren’t good at percentages. When I have that issue I enlist the help of the internet for 97% of the time and the other 14% is just pure guesswork. As for reinstating zones well it just won’t happen because whilst it would be great for us being in the private school system zone it would be terrible for most other sides.
The most compromised draft in years coming up next year apparently.

The AFL are just trolling clubs like us now, the system is being gamed so badly now it’s a joke. Just a couple of points given that it’s a near free for all, the father son game limit wasn’t always 100, personally I think it should be 1 game. I’m sure family’s are just as proud if a guy plays 1 game as they would be if he played 100. You can also have a situation where a player wins a flag playing relatively few games with a club but is part of the legend of the club for generations like a Boyd. Then there’s the guys who have daughters who then have sons like Ed Richards, his grandad and great uncle are Collingwood legends and he’s in the open draft.

Maybe having nothing is the best way to go but surely the AFL should have to justify rules that are arbitrary and discriminatory on the one hand and yet incredibly loose and generous in other areas like academy’s and who qualifies for them.
 
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plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
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The most compromised draft in years coming up next year apparently.

The AFL are just trolling clubs like us now, the system is being gamed so badly now it’s a joke. Just a couple of points given that it’s a near free for all, the father son game limit wasn’t always 100, personally I think it should be 1 game. I sure family’s are just as proud if a guy plays 1 game as they would be if he played 100. You can also have a situation where a player wins a flag playing relatively few games with a club but is part of the legend of the club for generations like a Boyd. Then there’s the guys who have daughter who then have sons like Ed Richards, his grandad and great uncle are Collingwood legends and he’s in the open draft.

Maybe having nothing is the best way to go but surely the AFL should have to justify rules that are arbitrary and discriminatory on the one hand and yet incredibly loose and generous in other areas like academy’s and who qualifies for them.
So you want it more compromised? Anyway that has nothing to do with bringing zones back in. The draft is what it is. Whether it’s compromised or not it doesn’t stop you taking paddy or billings over bont. We are looking for excuses for ordinary recruiting. We should be looking at reasons our recruiting is ordinary.
 

Yawkey way

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May 8, 2017
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So you want it more compromised? Anyway that has nothing to do with bringing zones back in. The draft is what it is. Whether it’s compromised or not it doesn’t stop you taking paddy or billings over bont. We are looking for excuses for ordinary recruiting. We should be looking at reasons our recruiting is ordinary.
All true and I don’t want it compromised at all but seeing as it’s heading in the opposite direction how is it that we’re left out.

Blakey winds up in Sydney, Anderson’s dad played for the hawks and us and sits our our board but no special deals for us.

The green that GWS will recruit as an academy player all for a jumper and some socks is the grandson of Michael green the Richmond champ. Yep no way he plays afl without them, it’s absolute garbage and needs to stop. How can you compete with a club that benefits from an advantage like their academy.

The bont is a funny one I have my own conspiracy theories, I think we were in the process of giving nick the flick and steered clear of the bont because it was awkward.
 

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WhiskySaint

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Nov 23, 2016
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Where do you draw the line with games played whiskey, is it 1, 50 or 100?.
In recon either 75 or 100.
Should be enough games that you’ve had an impact on the club and the clubs had an impact on you. Lots of players have injuries and spend an age club, have an impact and be left in the 90s.

Maybe a game played and seasons served combo. Aka,
100+ games
Or
50+ and minimum of 5 seasons.
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
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All true and I don’t want it compromised at all but seeing as it’s heading in the opposite direction how is it that we’re left out.

Blakey winds up in Sydney, Anderson’s dad played for the hawks and us and sits our our board but no special deals for us.

The green that GWS will recruit as an academy player all for a jumper and some socks is the grandson of Michael green the Richmond champ. Yep no way he plays afl without them, it’s absolute garbage and needs to stop. How can you compete with a club that benefits from an advantage like their academy.

The bont is a funny one I have my own conspiracy theories, I think we were in the process of giving nick the flick and steered clear of the bont because it was awkward.
We have an academy as well. Also gws have won exactly nothing. Father son is good and 100 games seems about right to me. Having said that if it was one we would have Fischer mcasey this year.
 

LongerHasHickey

Team Captain
Aug 1, 2015
482
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Interesting one. I like the idea in theory but given how the AFL is set up, I can see the saints being royally screwed. We have seen how unfair the allocation of zones for NGA has been so far. I imagine the AFL would give all the good zones in the bayside area and south eastern suburbs to the dees and hawks over us.

If they could make it work I'd been all for the reintroduction of zones. The benefits:
1) Incentivises clubs to invest heavily into grassroots footy.
2) Brings back the community feel of the supporter base for clubs which has largely been lost since the move to two melbourne based stadiums. The way Footscray got behind the doggies in 2016 was a throw back to the past.
3) the NAB league will be in lieu of the old under 19s competition. It allows potential draftees to train with their allocated clubs to help with integrating into the club. I'd like to see this extended so draftees can play in the VFL, which would benefit Victorian draftees similar to how draftees in SA and WA currently play in the SANFL and WAFL, making draftees more ready to make the transition to the big league.
4) Eliminates go home factor.

If zones were linked to NAB League teams:

Carlton - Northern Knights
Collingwood - Murray Bushrangers
Essendon - Calder Cannons
Geelong - Geelong Falcons
Hawthorn - Eastern Ranges + Launceston
Melbourne - Oakleigh Chargers
North Melbourne - Bendigo Pioneers + Hobart
Richmond - Gippsland Power
St Kilda - Sandringham Dragons + Dandenong Stingrays
Western Bulldogs - Greater Western Victoria Rebels + Western Jets
 

LongerHasHickey

Team Captain
Aug 1, 2015
482
1,147
AFL Club
St Kilda
Interesting one. I like the idea in theory but given how the AFL is set up, I can see the saints being royally screwed. We have seen how unfair the allocation of zones for NGA has been so far. I imagine the AFL would give all the good zones in the bayside area and south eastern suburbs to the dees and hawks over us.

If they could make it work I'd been all for the reintroduction of zones. The benefits:
1) Incentivises clubs to invest heavily into grassroots footy.
2) Brings back the community feel of the supporter base for clubs which has largely been lost since the move to two melbourne based stadiums. The way Footscray got behind the doggies in 2016 was a throw back to the past.
3) the NAB league will be in lieu of the old under 19s competition. It allows potential draftees to train with their allocated clubs to help with integrating into the club. I'd like to see this extended so draftees can play in the VFL, which would benefit Victorian draftees similar to how draftees in SA and WA currently play in the SANFL and WAFL, making draftees more ready to make the transition to the big league.
4) Eliminates go home factor.

If zones were linked to NAB League teams:

Carlton - Northern Knights
Collingwood - Murray Bushrangers
Essendon - Calder Cannons
Geelong - Geelong Falcons
Hawthorn - Eastern Ranges + Launceston
Melbourne - Oakleigh Chargers
North Melbourne - Bendigo Pioneers + Hobart
Richmond - Gippsland Power
St Kilda - Sandringham Dragons + Dandenong Stingrays
Western Bulldogs - Greater Western Victoria Rebels + Western Jets
Just did a best 22 if saints had been allocated both clubs:

B: T.Langdon, Frost, Haynes
HB: McGrath, Battle, Whitfield
C: Merrett, Taranto, Clark
HF: Florent, Gunston, Lynch
F: Dale, M.King, Lonie
R: Gawn, J.Kelly, Brayshaw

Int: B.Smith, E.Langdon, B.King, Scully
 

ScrappyDo

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Mar 29, 2018
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No, no and no!
Abolish the lot and return to an uncompromised draft.
One need only allow the sale of a FS selection to the club in question on draft night, though the mechanism for that already exists, it's called trading... As we'll see with Bing, when a player is determined to get to get to a club, he can do so.

Zones, academies and FS are designed to corrupt the draft, and operating within a competitive environment means exploitation is a fait accompli.
Burn the lot of it, there's better ways to achieve the desired results.
 

Drake Huggins

Club Legend
May 2, 2018
2,124
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The ghost of the G.G. Huggins Stand
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Stoke City, Southampton.
It seems you just aren’t good at percentages. When I have that issue I enlist the help of the internet for 97% of the time and the other 14% is just pure guesswork. As for reinstating zones well it just won’t happen because whilst it would be great for us being in the private school system zone it would be terrible for most other sides.
That's my fervent wish, pluggs. For once, we would be handed an advantage of sorts, the way Sydney, Brisbane, GCS, GWS, WCE, Freo, Crows, Carlton, Melbourne, the Filth and Power have had in the recent past. Why not us for once?

I have no idea how we'd get it done and I understand the AFL would be very reluctant, given we don't count at the Death Star.

On the other hand, with Gil in the chair and with Satan on our side, there may never be a better time to ask the question. Maybe one priority pick from your junior feeder club?
 

CALL ME SNAKE

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 19, 2014
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In typical saints' fashion, we have completely missed out in the father son provisions. For some unknown reason, none of our former champions are much chop at producing Y sex chromosomes. On the plus side, our women's team should be awesome over the next decade or so, but I digress.

In the 70's we were given Moorabbin, Cheltenham and the bayside suburbs down to Mentone as our suburban zone, just as all the young families left the area.

The drought lasted two decades. We lost Frankston, the Peninsula and surrounds to Hawthorn. Bentleigh and its surrounds were handed to Melbourne, for some unfathomable reasons.

Keysborough, Springvale, Clayton and Dingley were still mainly market gardens, farmlets or places where newly arrived migrants settled.

The peninsula was where young families were going and growing. Enter Hawthorn. Moore, the Matthews, Brereton, Mew, and others too many to mention was the result. The adjacent West Gippsland area was gifted to them as well. Tuck, Knights,the Abletts, the Dears et al. helped create a two decade long dynasty right there. They even had Loewey, but let him go and Bevo pounced.

I played at school with Gerard and Greg Healy. Edithvale boys, mad sainters whose dad ran the iconic Saints Social Club for many years. Zoned to Melbourne. The Fidges, Bevo, and several others lived on the wrong side of South Road, so had to go to Melbourne. They could almost see the Moorabbin ground from their front doors and couldn't play for us.

We got Mark Kellett and GT, both St.Bede's boys. Mickey Roberts from Beaumaris. Our only good area was Ballarat. At least we got Plugger, Spud, the Cunninghams, Burns, Perovic and Gellie amongst others.

Handy players like Kiel, Tweeddale, O'Keefe, Odgers, Mick Frawley and Jeff Dunne were good, but for whatever reason, none realised their full potential. Mick Frawley is the one that sticks in my craw. Gun CHF who could've been anything, but didn't thrive and went back to being a bush champion.

Fast forward to the late '90's. I moved back into the area. Having grown up a Jeff Fehring torpedo from our spiritual home, I brought my progeny back to live in Hampton to play with East Sandy, the feeder to the Dragons.

Imagine if the Dragons were our designated feeder club, as was the original proposal when the under 18s were created.

Judd, Ball, the Kings, and too many other top ten picks to mention over the past two decades. Flags would've been a given, when you consider up to seven Dragons were picked every year, with many of them becoming A grade, or elite. Most of the East Sandy players were saints' fans, with Auskick and training dominated by St.Kilda jumpers. Even ex-president Butterssssssss coached the Zebbie juniors.

Oh, what might have been! It would've made sense to align clubs with the feeders in their geographical areas and appropriate country zones. Instead of academies, we could simply allocate two priority draft picks a year from the relevant club or zones, in exchange for clubs putting resources into clubs and zones, helping development. I know clubs do it already, but formalising the processes would improve structures, wealth and enhance playing standards.

Under my cunning, Baldrick-like plan, the Sandringham Dragons would be our fedeer club, with us receiving two free hits in the draft each year. For example, 2001, Judd and Ball. 2018, max and Ben King. Yum, yum. Others will have good examples.

Our natural suburban area would be the Bayside, all the way from Brighton to Portsea. We could even be cheeky and throw in the Greater Dandenong area, especially with the flood of Eastern African migrants from the Sudan, Ethiopa, Eritrea et al. Players like Aliir Aliir, Daw, Chol and soon to become our very own Biggy, come to mind.

Satan, Matt and Fred should be lobbying Gil and Shocking to make it happen. Not only would it ensure our survival, but would almost guarantee ongoing success. It sure beats the thought of eventuslly getting Tassie as our exclusive zone, if you get my drift.

Make it so, number one and Satan!
Lololol.
Faarrkking brilliant.
Nice long well typed out thought provocing post .
Just backhanded with a simple yet effective
"Nah"
:D
 

Corpus

Senior List
Feb 6, 2019
187
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It's an interesting discussion.

I just want simplicity and fairness. The academies do serve a purpose at the moment but I hope we move to a completely open system, except for F/S.

And with F/S, maybe moving to a system where it isn't games played but rather years of service (say, a minimum of 4 years) to account for those who battled to get on the park for whatever reason but still contributed to the club.

Also I hope we can move to a pure free agency system with a simple set of rules.
 

The Punter

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Absolutely not.

So Sandy have produced a number of great players recently. Are the reasons geographical, or do to with a well-run organisation? Or just luck?

The only fair system is a completely uncompromised draft without any concessions (zones, academies and father-son) where the worst team gets the best access to the best talent. This, along with the salary cap (which would work much more effectively as a pseudo talent cap if footballers were paid more) will ensure the fairest system.
 

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