Time to talk the "R" word yet?

Mike Smyth

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I disagree, yes there is a cliff coming and the management of it will determine our fate. But as noted our drafting has been ok (its about playing them that is the issue)

Define long and painful? Not making the 8? We are specialists at that . Not winning a flag is another matter

I think Ports list is the better in the speed of a flag ( at the moment)
If we start retiring our oldies at the end of this year (as we really need to do) I would imagine we will hover between 7th to 12th for the next 5 years, never being a genuine chance.
 

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BrissyCrow

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Referring to Geelong, all they did differently this year was added 2 genuinely gun youngsters:
- Clark (nice pace, composed, good skills, run and carry player)
- Miers (composed, elite goal sense)

Hopefully Jone, Ned, Fog or a few can stand up next year. Then the valuable Carlton’s first round pick will be hopefully the boost juice that can complete an immediate “rebuild”. Maybe the word more appropriate is “reinvigorate”?
ANother thing that Geelong did was to move some players on. Lincoln McCarthy went to Brisbane and George Horlin-Smith to the Suns. Jackson Thurlow went to Sydney. Thats not a bad group of players to give up.
 

BrissyCrow

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If we start retiring our oldies at the end of this year (as we really need to do) I would imagine we will hover between 7th to 12th for the next 5 years, never being a genuine chance.
For me the biggest difference between Port and us regarding which club is closest to a flag, is the draftees. They got three very good players who have been in their team all year. what we need is for the youngsters that we have drafted in the past few years to step up. If that were to happen and then add on this years 1st or 2nd pick we will still be in the eight and depending on what level our youngsters acchieve then we would be in with a chance. We just need the draftees to do what Ports draftees has done.
 

jackster83

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ANother thing that Geelong did was to move some players on. Lincoln McCarthy went to Brisbane and George Horlin-Smith to the Suns. Jackson Thurlow went to Sydney. Thats not a bad group of players to give up.
Menzel went to Sydney too.

That would be the equivalent of us moving Gallucci, Poholke, Knight, etc on.

Would free up cap space and clear a path for Jones, McHenry, etc to get decent opportunities.
 
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For me the biggest difference between Port and us regarding which club is closest to a flag, is the draftees. They got three very good players who have been in their team all year. what we need is for the youngsters that we have drafted in the past few years to step up. If that were to happen and then add on this years 1st or 2nd pick we will still be in the eight and depending on what level our youngsters acchieve then we would be in with a chance. We just need the draftees to do what Ports draftees has done.
Do you think Rozee, Butters and Duursma would have played all season for us?
 

Betts are off

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Do you think Rozee, Butters and Duursma would have played all season for us?
Thing is we didn't trade away Polec, Wingard and Pittard. Freeing up at least 2 starting 22 spots for flanker/wing/forward pocket type roles that young players can come in and play right away.

But to answer your question, Rozzee would absolutely be playing, but the other 2 I think would be in the logjam for outside types that Jones is currently in.
 

Golumless

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Do you think Rozee, Butters and Duursma would have played all season for us?
Not at all, however, we've been very good with early year development so it is hard to fault the club here for the most part (ignoring one circumstance, but that's more us overinvesting in an area than anything else).

With Port, this is a story we've seen before. Young first year draftee bursts on the scene and shows something and is persisted with. Within 2-3 seasons they are completely mediocre with minimal improvement. I'd be amazed if Rozee, Butters and Duursma don't follow that trend in all honesty as that club is a black hole in that 2nd to 4th year period.
 

Southerntakeover

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For me the biggest difference between Port and us regarding which club is closest to a flag, is the draftees. They got three very good players who have been in their team all year. what we need is for the youngsters that we have drafted in the past few years to step up. If that were to happen and then add on this years 1st or 2nd pick we will still be in the eight and depending on what level our youngsters acchieve then we would be in with a chance. We just need the draftees to do what Ports draftees has done.
Port give their draftees opportunities, we don't.

Our draftees won't be at the experience profile necessary to take over when our seniors are put out to pasture.
 

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skam85

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Not at all, however, we've been very good with early year development so it is hard to fault the club here for the most part (ignoring one circumstance, but that's more us overinvesting in an area than anything else).

With Port, this is a story we've seen before. Young first year draftee bursts on the scene and shows something and is persisted with. Within 2-3 seasons they are completely mediocre with minimal improvement. I'd be amazed if Rozee, Butters and Duursma don't follow that trend in all honesty as that club is a black hole in that 2nd to 4th year period.
Bonner was supposedly this amazing elite half back at the beginning of his career, AA talent, blah blah blah.

And now he's a poor man's Pittard.
 

Peter J

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Do you think Rozee, Butters and Duursma would have played all season for us?
I think to be fair those guys are holding their own.

Jones has certainly had opportunity but unfortunately couldn’t nail it down.

I guess the argument becomes whether we pulled the trigger on his omission too quickly. He’s clearly too good for SANFL.
 

Golumless

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Bonner was supposedly this amazing elite half back at the beginning of his career, AA talent, blah blah blah.

And now he's a poor man's Pittard.
Even Pittard did that as well. DBJ also looked the goods early and followed that. Wines went from one of the hottest prospects to a poor mans Matt Crouch as another.
 

skam85

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I think to be fair those guys are holding their own.

Jones has certainly had opportunity but unfortunately couldn’t nail it down.

I guess the argument becomes whether we pulled the trigger on his omission too quickly. He’s clearly too good for SANFL.
We're at different stages than Port too.

Our coaching staff (rightfully/forcibly) believe that we are in a Premiership Window and pick the senior side accordingly.
While I don't agree with our selections (Jones should absolutely be playing over Douglas), it is what it is.

Port have this "throw enough mud at the wall and hopefully some of it sticks" philosophy where they should be rebuilding but also think they're a chance to win the flag Bulldogs-style, but also think they're a developing side.
Thus their kids play sooner but eventually fade, because, well, Port are not very good at developing talent over the long term.

We can see that with SPP, Wines, Bonner, Wingard, and more. Port's value for high draft picks is terrible.
Having said that, Port would have to do a lot more wrong to ruin Rozee's career.

Whereas we in recent times have the likes of Doedee and ROB who sat on the sidelines for years without an opportunity - now look at them.
Tex at the start of his career. Fogarty now.

We've turned low draft picks into very good players - Cameron, Gov, Sloane. Even the Atkins is a best 22 player in a top 6 side.

I know who I'd rather be playing for, and it seems Jones and co agree.
 

JPetro83

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Only conerns i have going forward is our forward line... Tex, Betts, JJ wont be there after 2021.. well Tex might be but if he is average now imagine him in 2021...we have to hope like hgell Fogarty comes good, Murphy and Stengle star and then for Himmelberg to bulk up and be a target. i think from 2021- 2024ish there will be some lean years
 

Southerntakeover

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Yeah I tend to agree with this.

Once it became clear he was too good for SANFL it should have been a case of perseverance.
Absolutely. You trust that he'll find his feet at the level. The thing is that we'd be far better off now had we done it.

When we look at going for broke this year etc we'd be substantially better off in finals with a Jones who has his sealegs than inferior players, but because we wouldnt invest earlier in the season we're pretty rapidly reaching the point where that simply isnt an option.
 
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