Time to talk the "R" word yet?

[kulak]

There is, to me, a very significant flaw in core of this playing group, a flaw that's been there since 2015.

Put generally, the team does not have the collective mental toughness to "hang" in a game, to swim against the tide for a while, absorb momentum, then wrest it back.

If you track back through our losses there are very few I can think of where we have been put to the sword, have come back and made the game competitive.

Sure there are games we have got the scores closer, but they were games we were never in. Conversely when we win, we've broken sides relatively early and take the game away.

Games last year like North in Hobart (10 goals to 0 in Q1), Hawks at home, D's at home, of course the GF.

In 2016, R23 v WCE, Semi v Syd. All putrid performances, all looked exactly the same as last night.

Of course there's always exceptions, but I believe last night is the rule. No capacity to regroup at 1/4 time.

It's happened too many times, it's not an event. It's a pattern. We need to look past the core leadership and senior players of this group.

This years draft presents the perfect storm to act, we will lose 1 maybe 2 of our senior group returning home, we are stockpiling a war chest of picks and there will be quality SA talent to choose.

I agree, but I think our team balance contributes to that effect

We have a lot of one way players. Pyke inherited that. Forwards who don’t defend, and defenders who don’t attack.

When the opposition gets a midfield advantage, our defence does not have the rebound to create counter attack opportunities, and our forward line does not have the pressure to keep the ball in the area when it does go in

Look at every premiership team in recent years and you see:
- defenders who attack, from Lake to Rance
- forwards who defend, from Cyril to Daniel

And it was the same way in our 97-98 team.

This is why the loss of Charles and Brodie is so brutal. The problem is worse this year.

Because we have less players contributing to each phase, we have less margin to deal with some players having an off game or an off moment.

 

[marty36]

I agree, but I think our team balance contributes to that effect

We have a lot of one way players. Pyke inherited that. Forwards who don’t defend, and defenders who don’t attack.

When the opposition gets a midfield advantage, our defence does not have the rebound to create counter attack opportunities, and our forward line does not have the pressure to keep the ball in the area when it does go in

Look at every premiership team in recent years and you see:
- defenders who attack, from Lake to Rance
- forwards who defend, from Cyril to Daniel

And it was the same way in our 97-98 team.

This is why the loss of Charles and Brodie is so brutal. The problem is worse this year.

Because we have less players contributing to each phase, we have less margin to deal with some players having an off game or an off moment.

Really aren’t we drafting properly


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[kulak]

Really aren’t we drafting properly


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Isn’t there another thread where you have already made that point?

 

[Storm20]

Looking forward to the absolute pants wetters in this thread eat some humble pie after the performance tonight.

 

[Mattrox]

Isn’t there another thread where you have already made that point?

Yes. And he was wrong there too.

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[Redleg Crow]

Anyway next 6 weeks:
Swans, Suns, Carlton, Port, Dogs, Melb.

By June we'll pretty much know where we're at.
Win < 3 - rebuild is on
Win 3 - meh, play some kids, we're not going to trouble the engravers
Win 4 - We should finish in the 8, but that's probably about it.
Win 5 - I told you this thread was silly
Win 6 - I ALWAYS BELIEVED IN YOU PYKEY!!!

Do we dare to believe????

 

[Vhaluus]

It is still a rebuild if we lose Sloane.

We can win on a given week without him, but we can't win a flag.

 

[John Who]

It is still a rebuild if we lose Sloane.

We can win on a given week without him, but we can't win a flag.

Losing 1 player is not a rebuild, it's part and parcel of the game! For a true rebuild, we would be looking at getting rid of all players over 30 and aiming to play mostly young players for next year. A rebuild is when we have no hope in hell to make the Finals, or we don't look like we're going to advance further than where we sit on the ladder. With us missing a fair few decent players on the injury list, this topic thread is nothing but premature talk.

 

[Vhaluus]

Losing 1 player is not a rebuild, it's part and parcel of the game! For a true rebuild, we would be looking at getting rid of all players over 30 and aiming to play mostly young players for next year. A rebuild is when we have no hope in hell to make the Finals, or we don't look like we're going to advance further than where we sit on the ladder. With us missing a fair few decent players on the injury list, this topic thread is nothing but premature talk.

It's not just one player lol.

 

[kirky]

Do we dare to believe????

I’m going for “this thread was silly”.

 

[John Who]

It's not just one player lol.

I'm sorry I missed your point. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with my last post?

 

[Golumless]

Losing 1 player is not a rebuild, it's part and parcel of the game! For a true rebuild, we would be looking at getting rid of all players over 30 and aiming to play mostly young players for next year. A rebuild is when we have no hope in hell to make the Finals, or we don't look like we're going to advance further than where we sit on the ladder. With us missing a fair few decent players on the injury list, this topic thread is nothing but premature talk.

Sloane is one of the most important pieces to our side and right now we're not in a position to replace adequately without spending two draft picks.

Equally with what our younger players are showing + a super strong draft it makes it a better call to restructure our side (not a full rebuild) and get a lot of talent in. Especially considering we already have one player who looks like he'll end up as one of the best players in the next generation.

 

[Redleg Crow]

Anyway next 6 weeks:
Swans, Suns, Carlton, Port, Dogs, Melb.

By June we'll pretty much know where we're at.
Win < 3 - rebuild is on
Win 3 - meh, play some kids, we're not going to trouble the engravers
Win 4 - We should finish in the 8, but that's probably about it.
Win 5 - I told you this thread was silly
Win 6 - I ALWAYS BELIEVED IN YOU PYKEY!!!

Three out of four now. Must win the next two.

 

[Golumless]

Well it might be time to start planning for the future, and treat the super experienced part of this squad as a if we jag a premiership from them whilst blooding kids, it's a bonus.

 

[AndysOtters]

We are an aging side, and together with the potential loss of Sloane and even Lynch, we are going to have to replace a large section of our team in the not too far away future.
Sauce is almost done. ROB and Hunter I do not see as top level material, so we need to find one. And for those saying Ruck isnt that important should have learnt a bit about football with Grundy smashing us last night.
Gibbs is playing well but he is 30 next year. Need to make sure we get a 100 games out of him to have any sons as potential F/S for us.
Betts has started the decline.
JJ is 30 next year.
Tex is 29 next year.
Mookay is 30 this year, and still in our best 22.
Douglas is 32 next year. Still best 22 at the moment and Gallucci hasnt shown he is going to take over his position any time soon.
Why the hell we took on an aging Gibson has got me totally miffed.
Our shot at the flag was last year and we couldnt take it.
We have alot on the list who are back up or not a given to be best 22 or always injured such as Otten, CEY, Dear, Hampton, Gallucci, Himmelberg, B Crouch, Knight, Sig, Davis, Polk etc.
The list isnt in great shape for the future from that angle.
Maybe dropping out this year, getting a good compo pick for Sloane and Lynch if they leave could be best thing long term.

Let’s not look at only the negatives here. You raise some very good points and most I agree with, but the list isn’t in as bad a shape as you think. The fact we are still in the top 4 and had 25-50% of our best 22 playing injured or sitting out injured for most of the season must say good things about our depth.

CEY and Greenwood have shown they can play AFL level week in week out. They have been solid contributors and if Greenwood builds his tank he could become special. (Age wise 25 and 26 respectively)

We have some young talent which we all know just needs time/games to develop, which should hopefully come when blokes like McKay finally step out of the picture. (Galluci, Milera, Murphy, Fogarty, Poholke) age wise 20, 20, 19, 18, 19 respectively

Then you have some young top end talent which has already come on and developing nicely (Crouch, Crouch, Laird, McGovern, Knight, Doedee, Atkins, Kelly)
Age wise 24, 23, 24, 23, 23, 21, 23, 23 respectively

Then you have some of the more established middle agents like (Smith, Seedsman, Lynch, Hartigan, Brown)
Age wise 26, 26, 27, 26, 25 respectively

Pair all that with a strong hand in the draft this year and i’d say the list is in good shape. Yes we lack a bit in that mid age elite bracket, but if the older boys (tex, Sloane, Gibbs, betts, Talia, etc) can hang on playing good footy in their early 30s then we can continue to press for a flag foresabbly for the next 5+ years with that bulk of younger talent.

I completely agree with you on the ruck side of things however. I think we have needed a legitimate backup to sauce for a very long time. He has no pressure to keep his spot as we have no-one capable of filling his role to AFL standard. God bless ROB but he’s no star AFL ruck. For the last 5 years we’ve had to watch nervously as any injury to sauce meant the end of our campaign. Thank gosh he’s been durable but wow we need to get plan B in place ASAP.

 

[GrommoT]

Let’s not look at only the negatives here. You raise some very good points and most I agree with, but the list isn’t in as bad a shape as you think. The fact we are still in the top 4 and had 25-50% of our best 22 playing injured or sitting out injured for most of the season must say good things about our depth.

CEY and Greenwood have shown they can play AFL level week in week out. They have been solid contributors and if Greenwood builds his tank he could become special. (Age wise 25 and 26 respectively)

We have some young talent which we all know just needs time/games to develop, which should hopefully come when blokes like McKay finally step out of the picture. (Galluci, Milera, Murphy, Fogarty, Poholke) age wise 20, 20, 19, 18, 19 respectively

Then you have some young top end talent which has already come on and developing nicely (Crouch, Crouch, Laird, McGovern, Knight, Doedee, Atkins, Kelly)
Age wise 24, 23, 24, 23, 23, 21, 23, 23 respectively

Then you have some of the more established middle agents like (Smith, Seedsman, Lynch, Hartigan, Brown)
Age wise 26, 26, 27, 26, 25 respectively

Pair all that with a strong hand in the draft this year and i’d say the list is in good shape. Yes we lack a bit in that mid age elite bracket, but if the older boys (tex, Sloane, Gibbs, betts, Talia, etc) can hang on playing good footy in their early 30s then we can continue to press for a flag foresabbly for the next 5+ years with that bulk of younger talent.

I completely agree with you on the ruck side of things however. I think we have needed a legitimate backup to sauce for a very long time. He has no pressure to keep his spot as we have no-one capable of filling his role to AFL standard. God bless ROB but he’s no star AFL ruck. For the last 5 years we’ve had to watch nervously as any injury to sauce meant the end of our campaign. Thank gosh he’s been durable but wow we need to get plan B in place ASAP.

Very well put.

The Tippett sanctions and defections (Danger) have meant that 25-27+ age group is most likely short of a few more stars that would have made us that much stronger now and in recent seasons - porbably robbed Tex, Sloane and co of a flag or two.

On the bright side, I think those same defections will make us stronger than what we would have been in the upcoming years. Wasn't our intention but Peter has been robbed and Paul will be paid.

 

[AndysOtters]

Very well put.

The Tippett sanctions and defections (Danger) have meant that 25-27+ age group is most likely short of a few more stars that would have made us that much stronger now and in recent seasons - porbably robbed Tex, Sloane and co of a flag or two.

On the bright side, I think those same defections will make us stronger than what we would have been in the upcoming years. Wasn't our intention but Peter has been robbed and Paul will be paid.

Ahhh I was trying to think back to why we were packing in that age bracket, thanks for the reminder

Yep agree with you, although I still hold hope that Tex and co can win one with the list we have.

 

[Redleg Crow]

Anyway next 6 weeks: Swans, Suns, Carlton, Port, Dogs, Melb.
By June we'll pretty much know where we're at.
Win < 3 - rebuild is on
Win 3 - meh, play some kids, we're not going to trouble the engravers
Win 4 - We should finish in the 8, but that's probably about it.
Win 5 - I told you this thread was silly
Win 6 - I ALWAYS BELIEVED IN YOU PYKEY!!!

 

[Scorpus]

Time to tell Sloane and Lynch they are not required next season

 

[Rotayjay]

WTF is going on with this side? We lose a grand final and start the season in disappointing fashion. Get decimated by injuries. We pull great wins out of our arses like those against Richmond and Sydney. Beat crap sides by decent margins. But that is all interspersed with utter shitshow performances against 4th-10th sides. What does our age profile look like with all these injuries? Are we being forced to play a young side?

It's just incredibly sad to watch because the good wins give you hope, only to have it so cruelly dashed.

 

[Crowked]

Lynch
Jenkins
Atkins
Poholke
Douglas
Jacobs
Kelly
Ellis Yolman
Hartigan
McKay
Gibson

Players who played today, who will never win us a premiership.

Maybe, we do need to rebuild.

 

[1990crow]

Lynch
Jenkins
Atkins
Poholke
Douglas
Jacobs
Kelly
Ellis Yolman
Hartigan
McKay
Gibson

Players who played today, who will never win us a premiership.

Maybe, we do need to rebuild.

I think we couldve picked a worse year to start one.

 

[CrowCro]

New players with no future. Poholke ( has nothing, lucky if ends up being an SANFL player) Greenwood( skills are rubbish constantly slams onto his foot, can't reflex handball). Galluci( has some attributes but a poor disposal and a bit of a headless chicken). These players add nothing to the team. They just fill roles. We urgently need ball carriers and even think trading Lynch would be way too go as our forwards are too slow at chasing out of defence. McGovern, Tex and JJ are plenty up fwd with Fogarty when needed.

 

[Scorpus]

Here's what should be the core of our side going forward.

I'm assuming any player 26 or younger is still fine. And that Brad Crouch will recover.

B Brown - Talia - Doedee
HB Smith - Hartigan - Laird
C Seedsman - B. Crouch - Milera
HF Gallucci - Fogarty - Knight
F Murphy - McGovern - ?
R ? - M. Crouch - Greenwood

I Kelly - ? - ? - ?

Reckon two of those players might become Himmelberg and O'Brien plus possibly McPherson will come on

Stop gaps will be Atkins, Gibbs, Betts and Jenkins. Sloane, Lynch, Douglas, Gibson, Hampton and Mackay moved on.

Then fill those spots with draftees. Good news is defence is looking set for a few more years if we persist with a mini-rebuild

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Here's what should be the core of our side going forward.

I'm assuming any player 26 or younger is still fine. And that Brad Crouch will recover.

B Brown - Talia - Doedee
HB Smith - Hartigan - Kelly
C Seedsman - B. Crouch - Milera
HF Gallucci - Fogarty - Knight
F Murphy - McGovern - ?
R ? - M. Crouch - Greenwood

I ? - ? - ? - ?

Reckon two of those players might become Himmelberg and O'Brien plus possibly McPherson will come on

Stop gaps will be Atkins, Gibbs, Betts and Jenkins. Sloane, Lynch, Douglas, Gibson, Hampton and Mackay moved on.

Then fill those spots with draftees. Good news is defence is looking set for a few more years if we persist with a mini-rebuild

Laird should be a given.