Mystery Time travellers

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Procrastinator35 said:
First of all, you cannot perceive time, as it is not an ostensible existent.....Hence my point about it being an abstract concept....Do you comprehend the notion of abstraction in this context?
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Yes but my argument is that it is.

Procrastinator35 said:
What we can perceive is matter & matter in motion, in all it's various manifestations. We then infer the existence of space through which we both perceive those material objects & their movements; & through which we ourselves move thru in our own bodies....Space is in fact the invisible silent partner, not time.
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Take away all the senses and time is all the human mind can perceive. Free of all the distractions of matter and movement.

But again there is an important distinction between any ability to perceive and measure time and the reality of time's existence outside of the human mind.
 
Quokka said:

Take away all the senses and time is all the human mind can perceive. Free of all the distractions of matter and movement.

But again there is an important distinction between any ability to perceive and measure time and the reality of time's existence outside of the human mind.
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This is based on Rationalist Metaphysical assumptions of a Cartesian nature.....And no, Time is not all that's left....Time is something we all have to learn to comprehend & tell as kids....Indeed, I can vividly recall myself having to learn the abstract nature of the clock dial & what it in fact referred back to.....That is, the position of the earth on it's axis relative to the sun & the longitude of my locale......So much for a 'Metaphysical ontological given' then....Time is a social construct & measure of the earths movement relative to the sun & upon it's own axis.

What is inherent to the human condition/predicament is that we are spiritual bodies in space.....That is all that is left to us, where sensory deprivation is applied....Cartesian ontological mathematical principles refer back to geometry for their metaphysical axiomatic basis....But again, geometry - much like time, is a human invention & creation used to measure both matter & motion.....Mathematical principles refer to the rational component inherent in the human spirit.

The inherent ontological axioms of human nature is matter, space & spirit....We are finite spiritual bodies that occupy space….All other concepts are HUMAN INVENTION prefaced upon these 3 axiomatic truths/givens.

Time is a human invention.....It does not exist in reality.....It is a measurement of change & motion.....As Plato noted so eloquently....All there actually ever is, is the eternal present....What gives rise to the notion of time as a measurement, is our own finite mortal being.....Of a body that is subject to change & eventual decay.

The notion of time-travel itself is mere wish-fulfilment....Of the human imagination transcending it's own finite bodily limitations through the conceptual grasp of an eternity beyond the grave.....This is what gave rise to all Ancient Greek Tragedy/Comedy....AKA, The Human Predicaament.

Time doesn't exist outside of the human conception....Only matter, space & movement....Aristotle's eternal natural universe.
 
Time is just one of the limiting programs in this simulation, you won't find the edge of the universe either, in fact any act of real self discovery is directly thwarted by the physics of this universe... that's the tell... that's how a programmer would do it
 

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Yup, bullshit. We argued this way back, but in a nutshell, time is a thing. It's integrally linked to the other measurable dimensions we can sense. Einstein's theory proves this, and has been backed up an almost uncountable number of times through theory, practice and invention - thank Einstein for the accuracy of your GPS...

Your stance is one of human senses being the standard bearers of reality, and you seem to reject the mathematics. That's like saying the measure of your oven temperature should be based not upon the thermometer reading, but on how loud you shout "f### me that's hot!" when you put your hand on it. There's a reason why the cubit and handspans went out the window when trying to accurately measure the height of a horse...

You debunk Einstein and everyone who's either backed him up or failed trying to discredit him, in favour of ancient Greeks and humanist philosophers. Right there, your credibility went out the window. That's like ignoring the transcript of a parliamentary reading and going straight to Fox News. You've managed to fill the last several pages with a position that comes from nothing but your own spiritual bias, and ignored science to the point of ridiculousness. This stance and your use of the word "ontological" is right up there with Malcolm Roberts' bleating of the word "empirical" on that episode of Q&A, up against Brian Cox and the sheer weight of the world's scientific knowledge of climate change...reminds me of this famous cartoon:
actofdefiance.jpg
 
Gibbke said:
Yup, bullshit. We argued this way back, but in a nutshell, time is a thing. It's integrally linked to the other measurable dimensions we can sense. Einstein's theory proves this, and has been backed up an almost uncountable number of times through theory, practice and invention - thank Einstein for the accuracy of your GPS...

Your stance is one of human senses being the standard bearers of reality, and you seem to reject the mathematics. That's like saying the measure of your oven temperature should be based not upon the thermometer reading, but on how loud you shout "f### me that's hot!" when you put your hand on it.
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Indeed. Time is a thing. I cannot see it but I experience it and indeed Einstein amazing mind and science show it is indeed linked to other spacetime dimensions.
 
footyfan78 said:
Indeed. Time is a thing. I cannot see it but I experience it and indeed Einstein amazing mind and science show it is indeed linked to other spacetime dimensions.
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No....All you are experiencing is change & motion....It's not time at all....Time is the name we give to those changes & motions.

Time is a human measurement.....All there ever actually is, is the eternal present.....The eternity of space & matter (You cannot get something from nothing) means time is simply a measurement of human sentient finite being.

You 2 need to get these concepts concretised in your heads.

I'm going to keep repeating this until my head falls off....Time is not an ontological, existential phenomenon.....It's a measurement.
 
Gibbke said:
Yup, bullshit. We argued this way back, but in a nutshell, time is a thing. It's integrally linked to the other measurable dimensions we can sense. Einstein's theory proves this, and has been backed up an almost uncountable number of times through theory, practice and invention - thank Einstein for the accuracy of your GPS...

Your stance is one of human senses being the standard bearers of reality, and you seem to reject the mathematics. That's like saying the measure of your oven temperature should be based not upon the thermometer reading, but on how loud you shout "f### me that's hot!" when you put your hand on it. There's a reason why the cubit and handspans went out the window when trying to accurately measure the height of a horse...

You debunk Einstein and everyone who's either backed him up or failed trying to discredit him, in favour of ancient Greeks and humanist philosophers. Right there, your credibility went out the window. That's like ignoring the transcript of a parliamentary reading and going straight to Fox News. You've managed to fill the last several pages with a position that comes from nothing but your own spiritual bias, and ignored science to the point of ridiculousness. This stance and your use of the word "ontological" is right up there with Malcolm Roberts' bleating of the word "empirical" on that episode of Q&A, up against Brian Cox and the sheer weight of the world's scientific knowledge of climate change...reminds me of this famous cartoon:
Click to expand...

Inane memes aside....Time is not a dimension....It exists nowhere & is merely a human conceptual application/measurement of bodily motion.

Einstein's theory is bunkum & proves no such thing at all....GPS is all about Newtonian mechanics & orbiting Satellites.

No, my stance is not limited to the level of empirical senses at all....One of the axiomatic rationalist principles I stipulated was the spiritual nature of man, in which the rationalistic/mathematic component inheres.....The same mathematical formulae for which Newton solved the riddle of our solar system with his theory of gravity....Of bodily relationships/effects upon one another in space.

Again....We can rationally grasp eternity & yet our bodies are finite & subject to change & decay, as they too are in motion in some sense all the time....This very notion & seeming paradox of change & stability lay at the foundation of the pre-Socratic philosophers.....Of Parmenides & Heraclitus.

My debunking of Einstein rests upon Newtonian physics, not the pre-Socratics at all.....So much for that little piece of historical sophistry.
 
footyfan78 said:
Repeating being so wrong in spacetime won't help you.
I love a fish that thinks water is not a thing too.
I love that life can make people think so differently but be so stuck in the same groove for so long....
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When you can re-connect with both your childhood & eternity then come back & talk to me.....Until then, you remain lost in the flux of a societally engendered chaos my friend.

Time is a man-made conception of a constructed social-reality.

Only deep meditation will solve both you & Gibbke of this delusional riddle my friend.

You're both lost in the vicissitudes & maelstrom of the socially constructed modern world.
 
Procrastinator35 said:
When you can re-connect with both your childhood & eternity then come back & talk to me.....Until then, you remain lost in the flux of a societally engendered chaos my friend.
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ha ha
I am never disconnected to all these things. it is why I comment in present time and past time to you.
Love to hear you in court trying to get yourself off a speeding fine that involves time...lol

But I love you have this confusion as a belief.
I will stick up for your right to express being wrong on time just as I can stick up for the muppet in another thread being just as wrong with his belief Mercuri was better than Bucky.

Meanwhile I will be amused at Gibbke being so angry with your wrong views on time. But keep it up, I love diversity of thinking when ii does no harm.
 
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footyfan78 said:
ha ha
I am never disconnected to all these things. it is why I comment in present time and past time to you.
Love to hear you in court trying to get yourself off a speeding fine that involves time...lol

But I love you have this confusion as a belief.
I will stick up for your right to express being wrong on time just as I can stick up for the muppet in another thread being just as wrong with his belief Mercuri was better than Bucky.

Meanwhile I will be amused at Gibbke being so angry with your wrong views on time. But keep it up, I love diversity of thinking when is does no harm.
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So enjoy your magical time travel adventures.....Even though they merely exist in the human imagination alone.

Though it's fun all the same watching both you & Gibbke get confused between the 2.

Until someone can actually 'travel through time' LOL......Then reality remains firmly affixed upon my side of the argument.
 
Procrastinator35 said:
So enjoy your magical time travel adventures.....
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They are no more magical than the oxygen you breath with in this spacetime but you can believe they are magical if it makes you happy.
I love to see you in court debunk the speeding fine WITHIN spacetime and get off..lol
Let me know the spacetime event I can attend it please.
 
footyfan78 said:
They are no more magical than the oxygen you breath with in this spacetime but you can believe they are magical if it makes you happy.
I love to see you in court debunk the speeding fine WITHIN spacetime and get off..lol
Let me know the spacetime event I can attend it please.
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This is where all the trouble & confusion begins.....When physicists indulge in metaphysical assumptions & formulas of the human imaginations making alone.

Such things are the province of Philosophers.....Physicists need to return to their own realm of expertise & cease making complete assess of themselves.

Theoretical physics from Einstein onwards is mostly complete & utter nonsense.....It's pure fantasy.
 

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Procrastinator35 said:
This is where all the trouble & confusion begins..
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In YOUR mind.
There is no trouble but you can feel confused if it your experience.
Do not let it trouble you.
But of course the reality of a speeding fine and trying to convince yourself time is not thing, probably does shake a bit of your foundations.
Life is what you make it. In time of course...lol
 
footyfan78 said:
In YOUR mind.
There is no trouble but you can feel confused if it your experience.
Do not let it trouble you.
But of course the reality of a speeding fine and trying to convince yourself time is not thing, probably does shake a bit of your foundations.
Life is what you make it. In time of course...lol
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Once again.....You seem to have conceptions mixed up with perceptions.....Abstract concepts with Ostensible ones.....The human imagination with reality.

You & Gibbke have much to learn in the realm of Metaphysics......I suggest you study Aristotles Categories as a means to set you both on the right path.

There's little point in me debating with those unschooled in even the most rudimentary of Metaphysical axioms & philosophical principles.
 
Procrastinator35 said:
There's little point in me debating with those unschooled in even the most rudimentary of Metaphysical axioms & philosophical principles.
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Try the Science board then before shelling out personal attacks in here.

Checks the boards rules for clarification if needed.
 
Procrastinator35 said:
Inane memes aside....Time is not a dimension....It exists nowhere & is merely a human conceptual application/measurement of bodily motion.

Einstein's theory is bunkum & proves no such thing at all....GPS is all about Newtonian mechanics & orbiting Satellites.

No, my stance is not limited to the level of empirical senses at all....One of the axiomatic rationalist principles I stipulated was the spiritual nature of man, in which the rationalistic/mathematic component inheres.....The same mathematical formulae for which Newton solved the riddle of our solar system with his theory of gravity....Of bodily relationships/effects upon one another in space.

Again....We can rationally grasp eternity & yet our bodies are finite & subject to change & decay, as they too are in motion in some sense all the time....This very notion & seeming paradox of change & stability lay at the foundation of the pre-Socratic philosophers.....Of Parmenides & Heraclitus.

My debunking of Einstein rests upon Newtonian physics, not the pre-Socratics at all.....So much for that little piece of historical sophistry.
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Just on this one point but this is completely incorrect. GPS need to know exactly (in practical terms) their location, velocity... and time :rolleyes: to be of any use, time-wise they need an accuracy of ~20-30 nanoseconds. If the satellites worked solely on Newtonian physics they would be out by over 10km in a single day.

The satellites orbit ~20,000km above the Earth and at a speed of 3900 m s^-1 (14,040 km h^-1). Each GPS is fitted with an atomic clock.

Due to their velocity alone the GPS would experience ~7μs less time than a 24hr period as experienced at sea level on Earth. This is Special Relativity and is the lesser of the two effects as due to the height of their orbit they are further out of Earth's gravitational well and the General Relativity effects equate to a time contraction of ~45μs extra in 24hrs.

And so a net gain of ~38μs (38000 nanoseconds) per 24hrs. This is constantly calculated and accounted for on the GPS's and so if Einstein's ideas were bunk then they would have been out by a huge amount the very first day they were used.

The effects may be detectable but insignificant to humans, take a plane flight or go to the top of a mountain and time is flowing differently for you than someone standing still at sea level, this has been experimentally proven many times but a lifetime of variations won't even come close to a difference of a single second. Relativity is theoretical in name only our understanding of it is vital in the modern world and it is calculated and field tested millions of times a day.
 
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Procrastinator35 said:
Time is a man-made conception of a constructed social-reality.
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I reckon we live in a time space continuum. It is all around us that there is a passing of something right. It's in the revolution and rotation. It's in the rings of a tree, phases of a moon, womens' menses. It has to be so or else the pysche would be fractured and not know if it was coming or going.

Unless as you said, through deep meditation or mushrooms you might break through.
 
armpit said:
I reckon we live in a time space continuum. It is all around us that there is a passing of something right. It's in the revolution and rotation. It's in the rings of a tree, phases of a moon, womens' menses. It has to be so or else the pysche would be fractured and not know if it was coming or going.

Unless as you said, through deep meditation or mushrooms you might break through.
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That's not a space-time continuum though....It's merely cyclical motion.
 
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