Mystery Time travellers

[Xenthor]

but if it doesn't exist then what exactly is time dilatation? we've measured it after all.

Just been reading about it and it's very interesting. My comment was just about something I have read before stating that there will never be a scientific experiment able to prove that time exists.
Not sure where I read this tho

 

[GreyCrow]

But do you believe the future exists? That if you could time travel could you go to the future and experience things that haven't happened yet, as far as your concerned?

Because that's lineal time, its a straight line all events are simply points on string on and we're back to reference frames deciding the past, present or future. You said earlier, you see multiple futures being possible. But if we follow this from a lineal perspective, then we are already someones past. Every decision has already been made by your futureself. there may be Billions of future you's, All having chosen different paths. But whatever future you follow your still trotting down a line already set out.

No I don't believe the future has happened. It cant have. I think time is lineal in the sense that I am standing on a piece of string that has burnt behind me and has no form in front of me. I guess my concept of time is derived from our need for order and habit. Even our ancestors who didn't have the same concept of time as us followed a progression of repeatable events to bring order to their lives. The Nile flooded each year , the swallows returned each spring , bears awoke and rain stopped.

To use an analogy, imagine you created a time machine totally your decision, You made the choice to travel to the future and you exit the machine you meet your future self. He knew you would here and explains that he's achieved everything in his life that he ever wanted and its all thanks to a magic book which tells you exactly what choices will lead to what outcomes and its guaranteed to work because as he explains: this has already happened from his perspective, He's already traveled to the future he's already taken the book and used it to achieve everything he ever wanted.

Now the question is this, if the past is set, if its absolutely certain and unalterable. can you truly decide to take the book of your own free will?
would you reject the book out of pride to prove you decide your fate? or do you accept it?

lets say you reject it, you travel back in time you go about life, free making your own decisions. deciding your fate, you pass a homeless bum on the street he's old missing an eye and a leg he looks like he's rotting of some strange disease. You look at him, he looks at you and smirks you suddenly realise he's you, he tell's you his deepest regret was not taking the book, he explains how everything in his life went to shit after deciding not to take the book and so in desperation he tried to travel back to that future point and get the book.

But something went wrong, he got sent to the past, broke he contracted some strange disease which was slowly killing him. suddenly he starts coughing and spluttering, he vomits blood. he looks at you and says, "whatever you do, don't use the machine ever again" he then half laughs, half coughs, "is that really how i said it?" he then rolls over and dies.

do you listen to his advice? or do you still think you control your own fate?

Its a closed loop situation. If my position is that by going back in time I cant change my now as whatever I do in the past will bring me back to the now , then whether I take the book is neither here nor there as I have the book in the future. FutureMe is successful not because PresentMe took the book. I did not know of FutureMe's success until I PresentMe got to the future and found FutureMe. So the actions of PresentMe don't matter.

The paragraph of the dying me then cant occur.

I have in this life seen and done some things I regret tremendously. I wish I could go back and make better choices. I cant. Not forgetting the many many people I have hurt beyond comprehension, but my life would not be the rich rewarding one it is today because I did go through that fire. I am the Me that exists because of that pain. One of my paths may well have ended my life through external causes. Another of my paths may have led me to a relationship that isn't fulfilling. But I didn't ,I am Me. Made up of PastMe and PresentMe and I await with great hope FutureMe

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Just been reading about it and it's very interesting. My comment was just about something I have read before stating that there will never be a scientific experiment able to prove that time exists.
Not sure where I read this tho

It was a common thought for many years, hell i was taught it growing up. what we have to understand is Time is simple the 4th coordinate in finding a location in spacetime. If time wasn't real then we would only need 3 coordinates in spacetime. Of course this simply isn't true, if you don't plot the correct 4th co-ordinate into a satellites orbit then it doesn't work, all the GPS readings would be off.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

No I don't believe the future has happened. It cant have. I think time is lineal in the sense that I am standing on a piece of string that has burnt behind me and has no form in front of me. I guess my concept of time is derived from our need for order and habit. Even our ancestors who didn't have the same concept of time as us followed a progression of repeatable events to bring order to their lives. The Nile flooded each year , the swallows returned each spring , bears awoke and rain stopped.

Its a closed loop situation. If my position is that by going back in time I cant change my now as whatever I do in the past will bring me back to the now , then whether I take the book is neither here nor there as I have the book in the future. FutureMe is successful not because PresentMe took the book. I did not know of FutureMe's success until I PresentMe got to the future and found FutureMe. So the actions of PresentMe don't matter.

The paragraph of the dying me then cant occur.

I have in this life seen and done some things I regret tremendously. I wish I could go back and make better choices. I cant. Not forgetting the many many people I have hurt beyond comprehension, but my life would not be the rich rewarding one it is today because I did go through that fire. I am the Me that exists because of that pain. One of my paths may well have ended my life through external causes. Another of my paths may have led me to a relationship that isn't fulfilling. But I didn't ,I am Me. Made up of PastMe and PresentMe and I await with great hope FutureMe

thanks that makes it much more clear, May i suggest looking into George Ellis theory of the Evolving block universe, I think you'll find your views are much more in line with that theory rather then true lineal time.

 

[M Malice]

this reality of time discussion- gee way over my head Sydney Bloods and GreyCrow i had to read those posts a couple of times to even have the ability to get the gist of it in a meaningful way. is it possible that it is this simple?

there is only ever now, in that the past has ceased to exist and can never be relived/visited and the future does not exist (so the possibilities are endless ie. free will) until we get there then it is now. so we are here and now that is it?

eg. i like going for walks in storms, one day i was sitting on my deck during a storm pondering whether i would go for a walk after much indecision i decided no, a few minutes later a bolt of lightning hit the ground near where i regularly walk. was i always going to make that decision? i find it very hard to comprehend that that decision was always going to be the one i took.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

this reality of time discussion- gee way over my head Sydney Bloods and GreyCrow i had to read those posts a couple of times to even have the ability to get the gist of it in a meaningful way. is it possible that it is this simple?

there is only ever now, in that the past has ceased to exist and can never be relived/visited and the future does not exist (so the possibilities are endless ie. free will) until we get there then it is now. so we are here and now that is it?

its possible, but doesn't fit with the current model of time in regards to general relativity.

eg. i like going for walks in storms, one day i was sitting on my deck during a storm pondering whether i would go for a walk after much indecision i decided no, a few minutes later a bolt of lightning hit the ground near where i regularly walk. was i always going to make that decision? i find it very hard to comprehend that that decision was always going to be the one i took.

it is extremely hard to believe but the more we learn about the universe and physics the more this appears its true.

as my above post regarding Ellis points out, there are other models out their which give agency and free will into time by making certain demands of time.

I don't support them because like Ellis proudly points out he designed his model to fit with his conclusion and ensure it at no point contradicts general relativity if you allow for specific circumstances.

its less science and more philosophy, he didn't like the conclusion Einstein came to as a result of his equations, so Ellis set about making an equation match his own conclusion. As far as i know the evolving block universe is the only model which does not directly contradict general relativity.

basically the theory is that there is no future, we are on the leading edge of time and everything in front of us is in a sort of quantum superposition.

 

[piepact]

You use negative energy (far more than we can produce at present) to stabilize the quantum foam of space and isolate a microscopic wormhole and inflate it to the size you require

The it's just the engineering challenge of keeping it stable and applying vast gravitational forces to bear to slow time down, probably with a small manufactured black hole

 

[MIKE85]

Fascinating stuff guys, I have enjoyed this thread. It's always interested me, the idea of time travel, but more time itself, and what it is, and how it's perceived.

With regards to the futre/present stuff, it's a compelling argument. I guess it's either the here and now is all there is, the future hasn't happened yet, kind of like building a bridge piece by peice, but only as you are stepping onto that piece, is it built., so you are always standing on the very edge of it. Or the future has already happened, and you just aren't there yet, which means free will exists only in our perception of the present, but in reality it can't exist, because our futre has pre determined what our present self is doing or chooses to do.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

You use negative energy (far more than we can produce at present) to stabilize the quantum foam of space and isolate a microscopic wormhole and inflate it to the size you require

The it's just the engineering challenge of keeping it stable and applying vast gravitational forces to bear to slow time down, probably with a small manufactured black hole

its a little harder then that, first we'd have to prove quantum foam exists (thus disproving string theory, which i'm all for) we'd then need to confirm microscopic wormholes exist.

but we don't need to **** with gravity of a blackhole (again we'd need to prove micro black holes, exist find a way to stablise them so they last longer then bees dick of time they said to exist for) time is relative and already slows down based on local conditions for example the actual speed of light drops as its passes through a medium due to refraction.

 

[DIG]

I wonder if you have read Luke Reinharts Dice Man? Blind Free Will leads to chaos.

I've read that book! Superb for its time. Every decision he ever makes dictated by the roll of the dice, however benevolent or malicious or apathetic. He had no free will, but felt so free for that very reason, free from having to ever worry about making a decision...

If everything is predetermined and there technically is no such thing as free will, ppl shouldn't get upset or argue about it. After all, even though time isn't linear so it's predetermined whether I just chose a Coke or a Fanta, it didn't FEEL like it was predetermined to me. It felt like I chose the Coke! That's all that needs to matter from my perspective, in day to day terms anyway.

 

[GreyCrow]

Some would point out he had to make a choice as to what the numbers represented!!

 

[DIG]

Some would point out he had to make a choice as to what the numbers represented!!

True! He never seemed to weight them one way or the other but yeah that's still true.

 

[Pugz89]

Yes, agreed, but the evidence coming out from the drone pilots is they suffer PTSD at the same or even higher rates than F-16 pilots. So that "extension" thing kind of hits a wall. We're still at shooting big bombs long distances just like they did in 1916.

What I'm talking about is a "different" way of fighting. I have no idea what it will look like at the point end, but I'd be tipping it is about changing people's perceptions of what is happening at any given moment, most likely through advanced chemical warfare ... panic drugs, surrender drugs, confusion drugs etc.

I know i'm late to the party but would mind control count as an evolution you're perhaps thinking of? An evolution of MK Ultra that effects everyone subconsciously. If you control the mind, you control the body and it's actions.

 

[Pugz89]

Timescape by Gregory Benford is a good book (fiction) on sending information back in time. It's 30 odd years old now so probably behind any current thinking but I always liked his take on it.

Funnily enough, he wrote it in 2046

 

[piepact]

its a little harder then that

No shit? because I was just going to rub some tea leaves on a dead gypsy under a full moon

 

[Sydney Bloods]

No shit? because I was just going to rub some tea leaves on a dead gypsy under a full moon

not everyone in this thread has even a basic understanding of what we're discussing, your post implied the things you we're referencing were confirmed to exist.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

not everyone in this thread has even a basic understanding of what we're discussing, your post implied the things you we're referencing were confirmed to exist.

Can confirm

 

[Nostradumbass]

 

[BIG BILLY F]

The " mandela effect" spins me out

Life is like a box of chocolates....aparently not

Life WAS like a box of chocolates...


Luke I am your father....actually is

No, I am your father...


Interview with a vampire.....nope

Interview with THE vampire

If you build they will come....

Nope


If you build it HE will come


Beam me up scotty....famous star trek quote right.....yeah ....

It was never said on star trek at all


Mirror mirror on the wall....well shiiiizzz .....its actually magic mirror on the wall

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Life is like a box of chocolates....aparently not

Life WAS like a box of chocolates...


Luke I am your father....actually is

No, I am your father...


Interview with a vampire.....nope

Interview with THE vampire


If you build they will come....

Nope


If you build it HE will come


Beam me up scotty....famous star trek quote right.....yeah ....

It was never said on star trek at all


Mirror mirror on the wall....well shiiiizzz .....its actually magic mirror on the wall

actually these one's are fairly simple to explain
anyone whos watched forrest gump start to finish and actually paid attention knows what the actual quote is.
this miss quote happens because contextual the tenths of the quote are incorrect for everyday conversation, without even thinking people automatically adjusted the tenths when referring to the current over time it stuck.

Luke i am your father: not a misquote exactly, this variation of the line was being used to mock starwars within months of the second films release on tv, radio and in books. as starwars is very much like woodstock in that 3/4 the people who claim to have first hand knowledge of attendance are full of shit. the incorrect version is more widely known due to media saturation.

Interview with the vampire: it was shit film that girls fawned over and everyone else just wished would end. as there's more than one vampire in it "the" makes no sense (unless you read the books which nobody who was not subjected to my university's now defunct media art curse did) and so "A" was substituted because nobody ever gave a shit.

Beam me up scotty was never said in the original run, but shatner used the line at convention after convention after convention and so when star trek nerds quoted the line Shatner said to "them" because it meant more to them.

mirror, mirror on the wall is the line in the book which was read to kids for over a hundred years before the film was made and continued to be read to kids long after the film was made. today kids read disney shit rather than brothers grim tales and so it seems like a mandela effect, when it's simply a hangover of societal memory.

 

[GreyCrow]

The Mandela Effect. Says more about peoples ignorance and reliance on modern motifs than an incorrect or alternative timeline

 

[BIG BILLY F]

The Mandela Effect. Says more about peoples ignorance and reliance on modern motifs than an incorrect or alternative timeline

actually these one's are fairly simple to explain
anyone whos watched forrest gump start to finish and actually paid attention knows what the actual quote is.
this miss quote happens because contextual the tenths of the quote are incorrect for everyday conversation, without even thinking people automatically adjusted the tenths when referring to the current over time it stuck.

Luke i am your father: not a misquote exactly, this variation of the line was being used to mock starwars within months of the second films release on tv, radio and in books. as starwars is very much like woodstock in that 3/4 the people who claim to have first hand knowledge of attendance are full of shit. the incorrect version is more widely known due to media saturation.

Interview with the vampire: it was shit film that girls fawned over and everyone else just wished would end. as there's more than one vampire in it "the" makes no sense (unless you read the books which nobody who was not subjected to my university's now defunct media art curse did) and so "A" was substituted because nobody ever gave a shit.

Beam me up scotty was never said in the original run, but shatner used the line at convention after convention after convention and so when star trek nerds quoted the line Shatner said to "them" because it meant more to them.

mirror, mirror on the wall is the line in the book which was read to kids for over a hundred years before the film was made and continued to be read to kids long after the film was made. today kids read disney shit rather than brothers grim tales and so it seems like a mandela effect, when it's simply a hangover of societal memory.

Yeah this makes sense it was really spinning me out for a second.

 

[grizzlym]

1500 year old mummy found wearing Adidas trainers?

http://tenplay.com.au/news/national...ng-adidas-shoes-triggers-time-travel-theories

 

[DIG]

1500 year old mummy found wearing Adidas trainers?

http://tenplay.com.au/news/national...ng-adidas-shoes-triggers-time-travel-theories

Haha awesome.

Surely they just looked like runners, but were actually striped mummy bandages or something.

 

[GreyCrow]

Haha awesome.

Surely they just looked like runners, but were actually striped mummy bandages or something.

Once again we see what to us is standard for today. Open that up 100 years ago and people will see sandals