Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

Which AFC deserter were/are you most salty towards?


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Sanders

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I tell you what, I'll lighten up if you actually have something nice to say about the club administration - just occasionally. ;) They are human beings who make mistakes - as you do false messiah.

Jenny, Macca, me and and a number of others are in no doubt the club administration has stuffed up big time. Macca in particular has been highly constructively critical on a number of occasions. But it's also reasonable to cut them some slack. There won't be one person on this board who has never made a mistake at work - some of them major with dire personal consequences. And nothing you constantly say against the club administration over and over again ad nauseum is going to change anything. Bringing up stuff you can't control or change to the point of obsession is unhelpful, immature and worryingly, says a lot about you. It is what it is. The club has made big mistakes and we all know the AFL is a joke. Time to move on. Or if you can't move on then move onto a club whose administration you are happy with. And leave the rest of us to look forward to the important stuff - this great playing group and the 2013 season.
Not that i think this is really worth responding to, but out of curiosity I'll bite:

Exactly how is one constructively critical on a discussion board?

Constructive criticisms are about working with someone/something to actively improve. How does that apply here?

What you really mean is criticism you agree with. Which is fair enough, but don't make it out to be more than it is
 

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fairfooty

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Not that i think this is really worth responding to, but out of curiosity I'll bite:

Exactly how is one constructively critical on a discussion board?

Constructive criticisms are about working with someone/something to actively improve. How does that apply here?

What you really mean is criticism you agree with. Which is fair enough, but don't make it out to be more than it is
If that's all you can come up with, I'm happy. I stand by the post - constructive criticism is also about the manner of the criticism. Something you appear to have yet to learn, particularly in a public forum.
 

Sanders

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If that's all you can come up with, I'm happy. I stand by the post - constructive criticism is also about the manner of the criticism. Something you appear to have yet to learn, particularly in a public forum.
OK give me an example that you were referring to in your previous post?

Something "constructive" that you think illustrates your point

Just saying things like:
"Oh everyone makes mistakes"
"Time to move on"
Etc

Is not constructive criticism, what you really mean is stopping talking about things you don't like.

that is not a reasonable request
 

macca23

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Who the hell is warren? I have in my mind baseball warren from "theres something about Mary."
A great movie that was too, although it probably frightened many a young lady away from using hair gel from an unknown source. :D

For some reasons known only to the Colonel, he is referring to me as Warren Buffet.

For those that haven't heard of Buffet he is described in Wikipedia as follows:

"Warren Edward Buffett is an American business magnate, investor, and philanthropist. He is widely considered the most successful investor of the 20th century."
Buffet's idea of small change would be a few million here and there, so I fail to qualify on that account and as for being a philanthrophist the only thing I'm giving away at the moment is the back of my tongue to the Colonel. :)

Mind you, the following snapshot of the Colonel's thought processes might make things a little clearer: :D

 
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I'll ask again as this question can not or will not be answered by the self imposed club spokes people in jenny61_99 or macca23

Why did Kurt Tippett ask or agree to have any side agreement written into any contract in 2009 if he had any intentions of staying?

Everything you say, has come directly from the club and as far as I'm concerned, they have a vested interest to keep this mess as positive as possible. The agreement is a fact, it was kept quiet as possible and denied for as long as possible, yet you still insist on him committing to the club. That the part of the story that just doesn't add up.
 

jenny61_99

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Firstly I am NOT a self imposed spokesperson for the club.

Secondly, I ask you this question. You've never changed your mind about something? Thought a certain way about something and then a few years later circumstances change and you change how you originally thought?
 

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fairfooty

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OK give me an example that you were referring to in your previous post?

Something "constructive" that you think illustrates your point

Just saying things like:
"Oh everyone makes mistakes"
"Time to move on"
Etc

Is not constructive criticism, what you really mean is stopping talking about things you don't like.

that is not a reasonable request
Refer to Maccas diagram above. As usual you didn't read my post and inferred something that is not there. Nowhere did isay or suggest others stop talking about things i dont like. i object toyour manner and your obsessive bullying of others who see things differently. in otherwords 'your manner'. I clearly said 'manner' forms part of constructive criticism and was referring to Maccas posts. Macca and others are masters of the art. If you want examples of it to compare to your own posts then do a search of Maccas posts - and learn the art.
 

Elite Crow

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My take on it.

Kurt didn't want to be here but thought we were his best option of success considering his only other two known options, Gold Coast and Brisbane, werent going anywhere fast. He saw a positive vibe coming from Sando and that was enough to overrule the go home factor. The prior year trade period he was keen to get traded to Brisbane because we were both basket cases and at least he was back in QLD.

Then because we didn't slam the door shut and lock him away, Sydney came a knocking with more money, an exciting city and a very good footy side. From that moment he was never going to stay and took us for a ride. We being the nice guys let him string us along and become a distraction. We should have put the hard word on him or not play him. Now some might say he was our best chance of winning a flag, I agree a fit and firing Tippett was. But exceptfor about 2 games since he got concussed we didn't see that. We carried a liability into the first two finals. Who knows Jenkins after an extended run in the team could have played well against Sydney and we may have won. We also would have eliminated a distraction and sent a message to the other players we are sick of players ******* with us, put the team first or you can piss off.
 
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Firstly I am NOT a self imposed spokesperson for the club.

Secondly, I ask you this question. You've never changed your mind about something? Thought a certain way about something and then a few years later circumstances change and you change how you originally thought?
Of course I have, however, I've also never agreed to something and then changed my mind when I've felt that strongly that I've felt the need to agree to something when breaking the rules or governing laws was going to take place.

You can say whatever you like Jenny but every single thing adds up to this being another lame attempt from the Adelaide Football Club board and administration to try and pull the wool over it's members eyes. If they send out enough press and publicity, saying we tried to do this, this, this and that to make him stay but the money was still too tempting. In fact, we had him and he changed him mind. However, lets not actually worry about him asking to go home, being a Gold Coast boy at heart and not actually enjoying living in Adelaide.

As long as we keep up this act that we did everything, losing another player via our own stupidly and incompetence will trick enough people it won't actually matter.
 
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Can I have a translation on aisle five please? o_O
Jenny,

You don't want people to patronize you by insulting you and insinuating your sycophantic nature towards the club - stop doing it to others.

Start looking at the big picture and look at all the facts, not just the ones you have been told.

You know what they say about the truth - their story, your story and the truth is somewhere in between. Well start looking at the fact that involve the middle section, not just the part you wish to.
 

fairfooty

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Alex you have a point. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. So heres some Sunday morning musings.

The problem for me is this is not only about the big pictures and the facts. Behind these serious club administration errors are a bunch of real people who would be acutely and painfully aware of their stuff ups. Yet at the time I have no doubt they thought they were doing the right thing for the club under immense membership pressure - misguided as that now appears in hindsight.

And for them it's amplified by the highly public nature of it - when the rest of us stuff up at work, even big time, at least it's usually in relative privacy and not plastered across the press or Big Footy in one of the biggest threads in BF's history! And in my opinion they've all paid for their 'crimes' big time - including the added public humiliation. Which is why I say 'it is what it is', no amount of angry obsessive ongoing discussion (ranting) is going to change that - whether we like the results or not. Theres a saying about having the wisdom to know the difference between the things that we can change and the things which we can't that comes to mind.

In fact the people on BF who continue to put the boot into the administration long after the issue is done and dusted are now the real worry IMO. There comes a point when this sort of discussion damages the greater club. IMO it's really time to move on to avoid that. I hope some of the tyre kickers around here are never in the same position as our club administrators who made these decisions. Less venom and bit of humanity when discussing real people never goes astray.
 

macca23

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I'll ask again as this question can not or will not be answered by the self imposed club spokes people in jenny61_99 or macca23

Why did Kurt Tippett ask or agree to have any side agreement written into any contract in 2009 if he had any intentions of staying?

Everything you say, has come directly from the club and as far as I'm concerned, they have a vested interest to keep this mess as positive as possible. The agreement is a fact, it was kept quiet as possible and denied for as long as possible, yet you still insist on him committing to the club. That the part of the story that just doesn't add up.
Sadly, it appears that while I've given you credit in the past for not being a shallow thinker like Sanders, that thought may be incorrect.

Why or how would we know what went through Tippett's mind at the time that the illegal side agreement was signed? We know what was told to the club at the time, but whether that was his real intent or not can only be answered by Tippett

Also to say that I try to heap the blame onto Tippett alone re this agreement and exonerate the club is absolutely sheer piffle.

See this excerpt from a previous quote of mine:

Secondly, it really doesn't matter who thought of it. It was illegal, and both parties were prepared to sign it.
I have consistently criticized Trigg and Co for their actions and always stated that if I was in charge of the club, Trigg would have been sacked.

However, the punishment has been meted out from the AFL, The club has made its own decisions, and life goes on.

You can gnash your teeth and wail like a banshee with a pineapple stuck up its arse, but life has moved on, and I've moved on with it.

You'll do whatever you want to do, but the majority of others have moved on too.
 
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The problem for me is this is not only about the big pictures and the facts. Behind these serious club administration errors are a bunch of real people who would be acutely and painfully aware of their stuff ups. Yet at the time I have no doubt they thought they were doing the right thing for the club under immense membership pressure - misguided as that now appears in hindsight.
Yes, they are real people but so is James Warburton who was sacked as Channel 10 CEO for not meeting his KPI's, and so is
Tom Albanese from Rio Tinto and many other CEO, COO and corporate executives are real people. However, it's the nature of the beast that you place yourself in. These people get paid very nicely to do a job, and with that salary package they agree or accept that they will receive a lot of public scrutiny towards that job. AFL clubs in the year 2013 are no different. Collingwood had a turn over of something like $100 to $150 Million dollar turnover, we as a club were pushing $100 million. It's not small time potato chips anymore. It's big time stuff.

AFL ceo's have to accept the publicity is part and parcel of the job those days.

And for them it's amplified by the highly public nature of it - when the rest of us stuff up at work, even big time, at least it's usually in relative privacy and not plastered across the press or Big Footy in one of the biggest threads in BF's history! And in my opinion they've all paid for their 'crimes' big time - including the added public humiliation. Which is why I say 'it is what it is', no amount of angry obsessive ongoing discussion (ranting) is going to change that - whether we like the results or not. Theres a saying about having the wisdom to know the difference between the things that we can change and the things which we can't that comes to mind.
Bank managers and bank CEO's don't get paid to increase profits and losses, they get paid to financially manage an organization. It's basically financial risk taking and the good ones, get paid very handsomely. The ones who are not, get fired and become a public scapegoat but the point is, they get paid above and beyond the normal person becasue of the risk they have to take. AFL Ceo's are no different. They get a very nice remuneration package to run the club and part of that remuneration package; they are asked to become a very public face. Giving up their own identify for the job they are doing.

Most people in a middle management to senior management position will earn $100,000 to $150,000 a year. Once you start going above that $200,000 bracket, your expected to give up a bit more and in the AFL where the sport has an open door police towards the media, they would have to understand that.

In fact the people on BF who continue to put the boot into the administration long after the issue is done and dusted are now the real worry IMO. There comes a point when this sort of discussion damages the greater club. IMO it's really time to move on to avoid that. I hope some of the tyre kickers around here are never in the same position as our club administrators who made these decisions. Less venom and bit of humanity when discussing real people never goes astray.
Whatever is said and posted on this website is irrelevant because people will continue to buy a membership and go to games. If people don't buy a membership because of anything said on this website, that sort of people is only looking for an excuse not to go. They wouldn't buy one at the first sign of trouble.

There comes a point where the club is starting to alienate it's members by doing stuff that goes against the core values and beliefs that they are asking everyone else to follow bar them. That will become the greater determent to the long term success of the club than anything said on this forum or any web based forum.

The time will come when the coach starts looking at his playing list and doesn't see as many top end players as he would like and then he will ask the question - why. Oh that's right, we stuffed up and who is to blame. At the moment, we are winning so all is sweet but as soon as we start to lose and his job is on the line, major resentment towards those who did this will occur. That;s why Trigg has to go NOW!!!!
 
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Sadly, it appears that while I've given you credit in the past for not being a shallow thinker like Sanders, that thought may be incorrect.
Nice insult. Doesn't really mean much or answer the question.

Why or how would we know what went through Tippett's mind at the time that the illegal side agreement was signed? We know what was told to the club at the time, but whether that was his real intent or not can only be answered by Tippett
Your missing the point.

His intent was to leave, that was the purpose of the agreement. If he changed his mind and intended on staying by starting contract negotiations, why didn't anyone at the club make a propitiation to destroy that document. Once again, we can only go by what the club has released or the simply fact that contract negotiations never started and this was just a ruse to alleviate any short term fears.



I have consistently criticized Trigg and Co for their actions and always stated that if I was in charge of the club, Trigg would have been sacked.

However, the punishment has been meted out from the AFL, The club has made its own decisions, and life goes on.

You can gnash your teeth and wail like a banshee with a pineapple stuck up its arse, but life has moved on, and I've moved on with it.

You'll do whatever you want to do, but the majority of others have moved on too.
As I just said, as soon as start to lose and Trigg has to look at Sanderson position, those draft picks will become an issue. Resentment will take place and Sanderson can point the finger at him for killing his playing squad.

That's why Trigg had to go now. He can not fire anyone from the coaching department for underachieving as he is the one who caused that list management to be how it is.
 

fairfooty

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Yes, they are real people but so is James Warburton who was sacked as Channel 10 CEO for not meeting his KPI's, and so is
Tom Albanese from Rio Tinto and many other CEO, COO and corporate executives are real people. However, it's the nature of the beast that you place yourself in. These people get paid very nicely to do a job, and with that salary package they agree or accept that they will receive a lot of public scrutiny towards that job. AFL clubs in the year 2013 are no different. Collingwood had a turn over of something like $100 to $150 Million dollar turnover, we as a club were pushing $100 million. It's not small time potato chips anymore. It's big time stuff.

AFL ceo's have to accept the publicity is part and parcel of the job those days.



Bank managers and bank CEO's don't get paid to increase profits and losses, they get paid to financially manage an organization. It's basically financial risk taking and the good ones, get paid very handsomely. The ones who are not, get fired and become a public scapegoat but the point is, they get paid above and beyond the normal person becasue of the risk they have to take. AFL Ceo's are no different. They get a very nice remuneration package to run the club and part of that remuneration package; they are asked to become a very public face. Giving up their own identify for the job they are doing.

Most people in a middle management to senior management position will earn $100,000 to $150,000 a year. Once you start going above that $200,000 bracket, your expected to give up a bit more and in the AFL where the sport has an open door police towards the media, they would have to understand that.



Whatever is said and posted on this website is irrelevant because people will continue to buy a membership and go to games. If people don't buy a membership because of anything said on this website, that sort of people is only looking for an excuse not to go. They wouldn't buy one at the first sign of trouble.

There comes a point where the club is starting to alienate it's members by doing stuff that goes against the core values and beliefs that they are asking everyone else to follow bar them. That will become the greater determent to the long term success of the club than anything said on this forum or any web based forum.

The time will come when the coach starts looking at his playing list and doesn't see as many top end players as he would like and then he will ask the question - why. Oh that's right, we stuffed up and who is to blame. At the moment, we are winning so all is sweet but as soon as we start to lose and his job is on the line, major resentment towards those who did this will occur. That;s why Trigg has to go NOW!!!!
Alex there is very little in your post I disagree with. But as usual you completely miss the point of mine. Yes these guys take on risk and public profile for big bucks. No argument there. My point is that the venom and lack of humanity and empathy on this board towards people after the event who make mistakes attempting to do the best for the club is worrying - big bucks make no difference to their humanity. To err is human. So 'let him who is without sin cast the first stone'. So I'm not even going to respond to your comment about Steven Trigg as its all been said.

Juveniles blame, rant, obsess and don't move on. Time you did. ;)
 

macca23

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His intent was to leave, that was the purpose of the agreement. If he changed his mind and intended on staying by starting contract negotiations, why didn't anyone at the club make a propitiation to destroy that document. Once again, we can only go by what the club has released or the simply fact that contract negotiations never started and this was just a ruse to alleviate any short term fears.
Alex, the very fact that you took a comparison to Sanders as an insult is to your credit, and I therefore apologise to you for that. :)

Back to the point of contention.

Tippett obviously had the agreement enabling an easy exit as it gave him an easy option if he chose to leave.

That was definitely a possibility at the time of negotiation (this is prior to his 3rd concussion), but after canvassing both Gold Coast and Brisbane his manager had indicated to Adelaide that Tippett was inclined to sign on the Monday or Tuesday after the game that was about to be played.

This is something that was reasonably widely known at the time - just not by Jenny and me. At that time, not since.

Then, unfortunately Tippett got his 3rd concussion, went back to the Gold Coast for his recovery deferring any contract signing, and voila, enter Sydney with a higher offer and the rest is history.

Obviously Tippett wouldn't have torn up that agreement unless he did re-sign with Adelaide. He would have been crazy to do that.

Was Tippett genuine about re-signing with Adelaide or was he stalling? The only people that can answer that are those in the Tippett camp.

Adelaide WAS negotiating with him, Alex, and they DID believe he was going to re-sign. Whether that was genuinely the true thoughts of the Tippett camp, we'll never know.

Never.
 

Vader

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Here are my thoughts and guesses as to what was going through Tippett's mind. Obviously I've never met the man and this is pure guesswork.

He re-signed in 2009, albeit with the caveat which I believe to have been instigated by his father. That doesn't absolve Trigg from involvement, as he clearly knew about the existence of the illegal side-contract.

I get the impression that KT enjoys his privacy - Brisbane (and Sydney) offer him relative anonymity compared to the fish bowl that is Adelaide. AFL players in Brisbane (and Sydney) can walk down the street, or go to the beach, without being constantly accosted by adoring fans. If they try going shopping in Adelaide they find themselves asked to sign 20 signatures before they even get in the door. OK, slight exaggeration, but the point remains valid. This is why he was so desperate to leave Adelaide - and part of the reason why Sydney was an acceptable option, even if the "going home" excuse was 100% bullshit.

It's fairly obvious from the existence of the caveat that Tippett was probably going to be looking to leave at the end of 2012. I believe he firmly intended to return to Qld, to either GC or Brisbane.

The club knew he was serious in considering the exit lounge, to which end Rendell went out on a rampage in the 2011 trade week, grabbing up all the tall KPP forwards he could find - JJ, Lynch & LJ all arriving as insurance against a possible Tippett departure. Thankfully JJ looks to have the goods, while the other pair appear dubious prospects befitting the price we paid in obtaining their services.

At the same time, Brisbane made a series of offers for Tippett, which Rendell and the football department apparently said "yes". Trigg said "no", banking on the club's ability to win him over with a new coach in place for the last year of Tippett's contract.

By mid-year, Adelaide's season was well on track, while Brisbane and Gold Coast were anything but positive. They made their offers to Tippett - and much to his disappointment their offers were significantly lower than what he had been hoping for. Adelaide's offer was clearly superior, to the extent that he was prepared to re-sign with Adelaide, even if it meant another 2 years living in a fish bowl. Sure he loves his anonymity, but the Tippetts all love their $$$ even more. At this point it appeared that Trigg's gamble (not trading him in 2011) was likely to pay off.

Then he suffered his 3rd concussion and Adelaide put negotiations on hold. This is when Sydney entered the equation. Sydney met all of Tippett's requirements - a successful team, in a city where he could remain (relatively) anonymous, offering him bucket loads of money. From that point on our goose was cooked and every word that passed through Tippett's lips was one lie after another - until he finally 'fessed up and declared that Sydney was "home" after all.
 
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