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Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

Which AFC deserter were/are you most salty towards?

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SpeciousArgument said:
Its getting really boring seeing posts end with 'oh and Trigg should be sacked'

This point has been done to death, let it go
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but it still on the money.

unfortunately, Trigg will always be linked to this and the AFC hav a track record of executing the scapegoat

Trigg would know is future is in doubt.
 
Carl Spackler said:
The agreement isn't between the club and Velocity Sports. In essence, they are nothing to do with it.

All they do is represent/advise/manage Kurt.

The agreement was between us and Kurt. It was obviously never nullified. Maybe we thought a phone call to Velocity would do the trick then they'd be able to talk Kurt into it.

Either way, gross negligence on our part that has already significantly harmed our club. There is not a single ounce of blame that can be levelled anywhere other than the AFC.

The vain hope that someone else (player, manager, other club) gets in trouble too is futile and irrelevant.

I've said all along that the only way the club can even begin to emerge from this with any semblance of a reputation is for the Board to sack Trigg, then to sack itself. Sure, steer us through the hearing. But once the penalties are known then that is when the hard calls must be made.
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Some enormous assumptions in this post. If Trigg attempted to right the boat 3 days after the contract was signed and can provide evidence of that, then I will be more forgiving. What I would want to know then is why, if the old contract was not voided and the new one not signed, did he not approach the AFL? Three days of stupidity would have looked a lot better than three years.

A legal contract is between two or more parties. It's completely irrational to suggest that nobody else shares any culpability in this scenario. We are by no means innocent, but clearly there are other things at play here too. I don't want to see others taken down with us to make us feel a little better, I want to see all parties take responsibility for their actions - Trigg included. I'd just like to reserve overall judgement until I know more. The Club has not been allowed to defend its position yet, we are staying media free. In essence we are getting fed one side of the story.
 
Carl Spackler said:
The agreement isn't between the club and Velocity Sports. In essence, they are nothing to do with it.

All they do is represent/advise/manage Kurt.
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Sorry Carl I reckon that's a bit simplistic.

If the original 'agreement' was an email to Blucher, I think it would make sense that you would get Blucher to agree to replace it. Just trying to figure out why one party says there was no deal and the other says there was.

For your information I havent been happy with the clubs management since they appointed NC. The 'as far as the eye can see' incident, the sacking of Rendell and spending the clubs entire cash reserves on the Westpac centre are all very fresh in my mind.

Im not convinced though, that Trigg has committed a major offence in this instance. Still trying to be objective at this stage.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Either way, gross negligence on our part that has already significantly harmed our club. There is not a single ounce of blame that can be levelled anywhere other than the AFC.

The vain hope that someone else (player, manager, other club) gets in trouble too is futile and irrelevant.
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I totally agree that the club can't point the finger at Tippett and say its his fault. From a management pov they've got themselves in strife and now have to own the mess. Unless something really unexpected comes to light, you'd think someone has to go. Personally, I'd rather see a dismissal than a resignation, especially if the board has been misled.

But, from an AFL rules perspective, Tippett ought to be held accountable also. Are you saying you wouldn't derive just a little bit of schadenfreude from him copping a whack?
 

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SpeciousArgument said:
Its getting really boring seeing posts end with 'oh and Trigg should be sacked'

This point has been done to death, let it go
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No it hasn't. In case you hadn't realised we have a hearing next week. It isn't "over" so we have nothing to let go of yet.

While you've got your head in the sand, the next month will be the biggest in the history of the AFC and getting our actions right will be crucial for how our club is thought of for decades to come.

Because of this, any normal Crows fan will be going over and over the possibilities in intricate detail from every conceivable angle. Rolling your eyes and hoping it goes away, or thinking that something is not worth discussing anymore because it's "boring" is Jenny-ism at its finest.
 
Cap said:
but it still on the money.

unfortunately, Trigg will always be linked to this and the AFC hav a track record of executing the scapegoat

Trigg would know is future is in doubt.
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Carl Spackler said:
No it hasn't. In case you hadn't realised we have a hearing next week. It isn't "over" so we have nothing to let go of yet.

While you've got your head in the sand, the next month will be the biggest in the history of the AFC and getting our actions right will be crucial for how our club is thought of for decades to come.

Because of this, any normal Crows fan will be going over and over the possibilities in intricate detail from every conceivable angle. Rolling your eyes and hoping it goes away, or thinking that something is not worth discussing anymore because it's "boring" is Jenny-ism at its finest.
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whether its accurate or not saying it more times and appending it to every post doesnt make it more or less likely.

Argument A: Trigg knew and did the wrong thing or didnt know and was incompetent. Sack Trigg

Argument B: Facts arent known, hold fire until the AFC has a chance to respond to the charges and see what the penalties will be. Wait and see

I dont see how harping on about it changes anything.
 
Carl Spackler said:
No it hasn't. In case you hadn't realised we have a hearing next week. It isn't "over" so we have nothing to let go of yet.

While you've got your head in the sand, the next month will be the biggest in the history of the AFC and getting our actions right will be crucial for how our club is thought of for decades to come.

Because of this, any normal Crows fan will be going over and over the possibilities in intricate detail from every conceivable angle. Rolling your eyes and hoping it goes away, or thinking that something is not worth discussing anymore because it's "boring" is Jenny-ism at its finest.
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Tell me carl, what have you added to argument A that hasnt been said 100 times before?

Im not going to counter with argument b because ITS BEEN DONE TO DEATH
 
Wood_Duck said:
Sorry Carl I reckon that's a bit simplistic.

If the original 'agreement' was an email to Blucher, I think it would make sense that you would get Blucher to agree to replace it. Just trying to figure out why one party says there was no deal and the other says there was.
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It's not an email to Blucher.

He is just the agent through which we deal with Kurt.

For your information I havent been happy with the clubs management since they appointed NC. The 'as far as the eye can see' incident, the sacking of Rendell and spending the clubs entire cash reserves on the Westpac centre are all very fresh in my mind.

Im not convinced though, that Trigg has committed a major offence in this instance. Still trying to be objective at this stage.
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You believe that or is it just the attraction of being contrary/original by not giving in to mob mentality?!

Even if our only penalties out of this are losing Kurt for nothing and our sacrificed picks you don't think that warrants a sacking?
 
SpeciousArgument said:
Tell me carl, what have you added to argument A that hasnt been said 100 times before?

Im not going to counter with argument b because ITS BEEN DONE TO DEATH
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Shut the board down then princess

I reckon if you tune in to the news, or read the papers, or scan the internet over the next week you might see some more discussion of the Tippett saga. Whether there are any 'new twists' or not.

This crap argument of yours comes up whenever Walker, Craig, Rendell... or anything interesting from our club gets talked about. Things get talked about until they are resolved, whether you like it or not.
 
Godallblighty said:
But, from an AFL rules perspective, Tippett ought to be held accountable also. Are you saying you wouldn't derive just a little bit of schadenfreude from him copping a whack?
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Oh, definitely! If Tippett gets de-registered I'll be delighted and if somehow down the track Sydney are found to have tried to exploit a situation they knew was illegal then I'll be over the moon.

But it just doesn't lessen our guilt or penalty, or share the blame in any way.

Tippett's got his own problem to deal with. As does Trigg, as does Harper, as does the club.
 
Carl Spackler said:
It's not an email to Blucher.

He is just the agent through which we deal with Kurt.


You believe that or is it just the attraction of being contrary/original by not giving in to mob mentality?!

Even if our only penalties out of this are losing Kurt for nothing and our sacrificed picks you don't think that warrants a sacking?
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Carl, I think the original email from Reid outlining the agreement to trade Tiprat for a minimum second round pick to his club of choice was to Blucher. It makes sense to me at least that if you were trying to rescind that email you would seek agreement from the recipient of the original email. What happened after that remains mysterious.

Id have thought that even from memory without bothering to check my posting history you would realise that I have no preference for either being or not being a member of the mob. Maybe AFGM could actually clarify for me whether I am in fact a member. I have not yet received my invite to the Christmas party so I must admit, I am a little worried.

I am also pretty sure I have stated that if the allegations are proven and Trigg is found guilty of anything, be it stupidy, naivety, negligence or dishonesty, he has to go.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Shut the board down then princess

I reckon if you tune in to the news, or read the papers, or scan the internet over the next week you might see some more discussion of the Tippett saga. Whether there are any 'new twists' or not.

This crap argument of yours comes up whenever Walker, Craig, Rendell... or anything interesting from our club gets talked about. Things get talked about until they are resolved, whether you like it or not.
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HAHAHA good try but you FAIL

you either have me mistaken for someone else or just made that up cos ive had nothing to do with the debates over Craig, Rendell or Walker

Youre not discussing anything mate, youre remaking the same point over and over again. maybe thats fun for you, i dunno.

Shut down the board because someone called your argument boring and overused? sensitive much?
 
Carl Spackler said:
Oh, definitely! If Tippett gets de-registered I'll be delighted and if somehow down the track Sydney are found to have tried to exploit a situation they knew was illegal then I'll be over the moon.

But it just doesn't lessen our guilt or penalty, or share the blame in any way.

Tippett's got his own problem to deal with. As does Trigg, as does Harper, as does the club.
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This I 100% agree with. I am sure you are relieved.:oops:
 

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IddyBiddy said:
Some enormous assumptions in this post.
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Oh really?

>>>>
If Trigg attempted to right the boat 3 days after the contract was signed and can provide evidence of that, then I will be more forgiving. What I would want to know then is why, if the old contract was not voided and the new one not signed, did he not approach the AFL? Three days of stupidity would have looked a lot better than three years.
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What I don't understand with the "wait and see" posters, is that both scenarios you've painted here are disgraceful.

A legal contract is between two or more parties. It's completely irrational to suggest that nobody else shares any culpability in this scenario. We are by no means innocent, but clearly there are other things at play here too. I don't want to see others taken down with us to make us feel a little better, I want to see all parties take responsibility for their actions - Trigg included. I'd just like to reserve overall judgement until I know more. The Club has not been allowed to defend its position yet, we are staying media free. In essence we are getting fed one side of the story.
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The club made noise about mounting a strong defence to the charges. I seem to recall something from the Chairman containing words to that effect. Then shortly afterwards we forfeited our picks this year :rolleyes:

Their idea of a "strong defence" is a bit different to mine.

Screaming "We plead guily, please have mercy!!!!!" at the top of our lungs doesn't cut it.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Oh really?

>>>>

What I don't understand with the "wait and see" posters, is that both scenarios you've painted here are disgraceful.


The club made noise about mounting a strong defence to the charges. I seem to recall something from the Chairman containing words to that effect. Then shortly afterwards we forfeited our picks this year :rolleyes:

Their idea of a "strong defence" is a bit different to mine.

Screaming "We plead guily, please have mercy!!!!!" at the top of our lungs doesn't cut it.
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Do you have video footage of this screaming? it sounds like it would be fun to watch.

Im getting the sense you have a bit of a flair for the dramatic. declaring our legal defense over before its even been presented? you cant see the hole in your logic there? even a little bit?
 
SpeciousArgument said:
HAHAHA good try but you FAIL

you either have me mistaken for someone else or just made that up cos ive had nothing to do with the debates over Craig, Rendell or Walker

Youre not discussing anything mate, youre remaking the same point over and over again. maybe thats fun for you, i dunno.

Shut down the board because someone called your argument boring and overused? sensitive much?
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See, here's the thing.

You choose what you read.

Don't worry, a lot of posters struggle with this concept.

Start reading a post and it doesn't capture your interest... I have a 100% guaranteed strategy to deal with this situation. Please PM if you want details as it is pretty high tech and I guard the secret closely.
 
SpeciousArgument said:
Do you have video footage of this screaming? it sounds like it would be fun to watch.

Im getting the sense you have a bit of a flair for the dramatic. declaring our legal defense over before its even been presented? you cant see the hole in your logic there? even a little bit?
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Oh, the hole in the logic?

Like... we've already been penalised our highest paid player AND sat out of the 2012 draft? That logic?

How many s's in innocent? :rolleyes:
 
Just hopped on the bandwagon and became a member for the first time in my life. I've got a feeling about 2013.

Will be booing every single Sydney possession if Kurt ends up there.
 

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Wood_Duck said:
Carl, I think the original email from Reid outlining the agreement to trade Tiprat for a minimum second round pick to his club of choice was to Blucher. It makes sense to me at least that if you were trying to rescind that email you would seek agreement from the recipient of the original email. What happened after that remains mysterious.

Id have thought that even from memory without bothering to check my posting history you would realise that I have no preference for either being or not being a member of the mob. Maybe AFGM could actually clarify for me whether I am in fact a member. I have not yet received my invite to the Christmas party so I must admit, I am a little worried.

I am also pretty sure I have stated that if the allegations are proven and Trigg is found guilty of anything, be it stupidy, naivety, negligence or dishonesty, he has to go.
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The original email just confirmed the existence of what had been talked about and deliberately left out of the official contract. It was an agreement between us and Kurt, that both parties agreed to.

Whether we tried to rescind the offer via email later is nothing, unless Kurt says ok too.

And even if Kurt did agree to rescind the deal (which I don't believe for a second) then we are still guilty, as we'd done a dirty deal in the first place. Then didn't come clean to the AFL. The attempted cover up is just as bad.

All roads lead to the same place. I'm yet to see any version of events that paints us in a good light.

Those supporting Trigg seem to be taking solace in the fact that we don't know yet which sackable offence is the worst!
 
SpeciousArgument said:
see... heres the thing. When you make your whole argument up out of exaggerations, half truths and assumptions thats not semantics, thats deception, delusion, misrepresentation... but i guess thats just semantics too...
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BigFooty 101: When you're argument falls to shit, try to score minor points.

We didn't sit out of the draft... we had picks in the 60's and 80's!

Boo-yah!

See if you can pick up a few typos as well.
 
Cap said:
lets face it. we sat out the draft in terms of getting a player who has a decent chance of being any good.
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Of course, we passed on our two best picks (which werent great anyway) that has been assumed to be an effort to show contrition, but contrition for what? we dont know yet how this is going to play out as a component of our defence. Im not judging anyone for their role in this (other than tippett cos hes fun to make memes out of) until the parties charged have had a chance to present their case. Im not trying to make the case that Trigg is innocent because i dont know taht any more than carl knows hes guilty. I just dont have a problem waiting to see what happens
 
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