Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

[SpeciousArgument]

Having read the same back n forth over and over, I don't follow what it is you are arguing?

you seem to be suggesting there is little known about the situation, which flies in the face of the competing narrative about the leaks

I think there is already sufficient information to expect some heads to roll, what we don't know is how many others

That we dont know specifically who has done what. we know generally that a person or persons within the AFC have done something the AFL have taken issue with. we dont know more than that (unless you take what is reported in the media as fact)

As im pretty sure i said in all this back and forth im not claiming innocence or guilt, im claiming its impossible to know at this stage what the appropriate penalties are and who they should apply to before weve had a chance to present our case.

 

[ftmch]

We applied penalties to ourselves, after lengthy talks with the AFL.

Maybe we just thought there were no good players in this draft and wouldn't have used pick 20 anyway?

If you're going to refuse to join any dots, regardless of what is staring you in the face, then why are you in this thread? Just tune in after November 30 to see how things went.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck...

It's a witch!

 

[SpeciousArgument]

The fact that you had the nerve to just try to assert that we 'voluntarily' gave the draft picks up as a demonstration that there was not wrong doing is laughable. Seriously, what the flying **** are you trying to push here?

point me to where i asserted that. What i actually did was point out the technical error in what you said.

Thats the main issue ive had with carls posts tonight, there actually is a distinction between voluntarily passing on draft picks and having them taken away. now if you can find the post where ive said that distinction means we are innocent ill happily apologise, if you cant find one will you do me the same courtesy?

 

[Schulzycrow]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...y-afl-commission/story-e6freck3-1226523103907

Reading this with a grain of salt, but still if the AFL still smack us as hard as Capel makes out WTF did we give up those two picks?? It just doesn't make any sense.

Also tacked on at the end...
Tippett, meanwhile, through his lawyer, is considering court action so he can be delisted and join premier Sydney next week as a free agent.
He has been offered a $3.5 million, four-year deal by the Swans.
NFW Crows do not let him do that, GWS my fine friend for you...still in your "home town"

 

[SpeciousArgument]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...y-afl-commission/story-e6frepf6-1226523103907

keep diggin that hole

if its in the tiser it must be true, call off the hearing, we dont need it any more.

i dont get how people are having trouble with the concept that not knowing is different from advocating innocence, again there is a distinction, and again there are several here i hope never get called for jury duty.

 

[Southerntakeover]

point me to where i asserted that. What i actually did was point out the technical error in what you said.

Thats the main issue ive had with carls posts tonight, there actually is a distinction between voluntarily passing on draft picks and having them taken away. now if you can find the post where ive said that distinction means we are innocent ill happily apologise, if you cant find one will you do me the same courtesy?

If you're merely asserting a distinction without difference you're a waste of the bandwidth that your posts use.

By trying to push that distinction you're trying to assert theres a difference in implication where none exists. Punishing yourself or being punished by someone else is still being punished. Unless you're trying to imply that we handed back our own picks for no reason what so ever (which would form oh so strong a grievance of its own), then you're pushing an argument entirely without substance.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

If you're merely asserting a distinction without difference you're a waste of the bandwidth that your posts use.

By trying to push that distinction you're trying to assert theres a difference in implication where none exists. Punishing yourself or being punished by someone else is still being punished. Unless you're trying to imply that we handed back our own picks for no reason what so ever (which would form oh so strong a grievance of its own), then you're pushing an argument entirely without substance.

didnt find one? so are you going to apologise?

Please explain to me how the club choosing to sit out of 2 picks leads directly to Trigg having committed a sackable offence without using assumptions or media reports.

Again, where did i claim guilt or innocence, as far as im aware there are 5 parties with charges to answer. please explain to me without using assumptions or media reports how sitting out of 2 draft picks proves the guilt of any other party specifically.

You seem to have trouble with the difference between asserting innocence and a lack of facts proving guilt.

 

[spenze]

It's a witch!

Only if it floats in water

 

[Defacto]

if its in the tiser it must be true, call off the hearing, we dont need it any more.

i dont get how people are having trouble with the concept that not knowing is different from advocating innocence, again there is a distinction, and again there are several here i hope never get called for jury duty.

book marked mr iraqi foreign minister. cannot wait to revisit this next week. you are already back peddling.

 

[ftmch]

There are three things that have happened to date in this whole sordid affair that cannot be disputed. One, we've lost our highest paid player, most likely to our biggest flag rival, for diddly squat. Two, we have forsaken our top 2 picks in a draft. Three, our reputation as a professional and respected club has taken a big hit.

Regardless of who initiated what and with whom, the reality is Triggy was at the wheel when these events unfolded and these outcomes occurred.

On this basis alone, I struggle to see how he can possibly keep his job.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

book marked mr iraqi foreign minister. cannot wait to revisit this next week. you are already back peddling.

dont flatter yourself. Since youre taking such a keen interest in me go back and read my last 24 hours posts, like i said to STO, point me to where i asserted innocence and i will happily apologise.

 

[ftmch]

... and is not gravy, a very small rocks or a church

 

[SpeciousArgument]

There are three things that have happened to date in this whole sordid affair that cannot be disputed. One, we've lost our highest paid player, most likely to our biggest flag rival, for diddly squat. Two, we have forsaken our top 2 picks in a draft. Three, our reputation as a professional and respected club has taken a big hit.

Regardless of who initiated what and with whom, the reality is Triggy was at the wheel when these events unfolded and these outcomes occurred.

On this basis alone, I struggle to see how he can possibly keep his job.

To me it all depends on how it washes out. If the AFC arent afraid of looking guilty which is what a lot of people are claiming is the net result of our 2 passed picks, why keep Trigg around? And wasnt chapman interviewed and said trigg shouldnt be crucified for one mistake or words to that affect?

 

[Donkey Magoo]

Who says. Siggins and Atkins might like to disagree with you!

I Agree, they both look good and they come into an environment of excellence, that will develop them

 

[Flynn White]

I hope Sheedy picks this greedy ba$**** in the PSD. Also hope he gets 12 round suspension, greedy pr1ck he is.

 

[Donkey Magoo]

No he doesn't. No player does. Players are delisted every year, what part of loyalty in AFL football still exists. Where was the player loyalty to the 2nd year players delisted this year?



Look, I agree and dislike Kurt Tippett for that reason. If it was me, on the Monday after the first week - I would have been asking Sydney to increase their offer and get a deal done as that would be the fair and reasonable thing to do.But he didn't and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Saying that, the agreement under minded the ability to get a fair trade. Kurt just didn't give a continental anymore.

So you don't like Kurt for what he has done , yet think that he has done no wrong, then why don't you like him?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think that you don't like people bagging KT, because it's making excuses for the clubs administrators, and that's a greater evil.
If that's true, I agree, why the **** did we sign a side deal?, why the **** didn't we trade him earlier?, why the **** did we trade for Richard Tambling?
There are a lot of serious questions to ask, and if we focus to much on kurt we won't ask them, but that doesn't mean that he's absolved from doing wrong.

 

[Rave Slave]

Arguing we haven't copped a severe penalty? We lost Tippett + the two first rounders he was rightly or wrongly valued at + Our first and second pick for nothing. Argue whatever you like but this is far from a good result. What's more it's only going to get worse. It's not like the AFL will go 'oh you're silly, have those two picks back and some compensation for Tippett'. I can acknowledge that it might be the best case scenario out of many that have been floated but to suggest effectively losing 3 first rounders, a top 5 player, a second rounder and whatever fine the AFL throws at us is anything short of a disaster for our club then you're kidding yourself.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

There are three things that have happened to date in this whole sordid affair that cannot be disputed. One, we've lost our highest paid player, most likely to our biggest flag rival, for diddly squat. Two, we have forsaken our top 2 picks in a draft. Three, our reputation as a professional and respected club has taken a big hit.

4. Our bottom line will take a hit
5. Given our insurance policy is covering the cost of the incompetence of our leaders this will impact future policies for many years

 

[Godallblighty]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...y-afl-commission/story-e6freck3-1226523103907

But a Crows source said the club was still bracing itself for the worst.
"It doesn't look good," the source said. "There's been a lot of dialogue between the two parties and all indications are that we're still going to get belted.
"Clearly we've made some off-field mistakes but if we're guilty of anything it's just a bit of misinterpretation of the rules. We didn't try to do anything sinister.

Seriously...'a bit of misinterpretation of the rules'? And we're still expecting to get 'belted' on top of losing Tippett for nothing and our 'gesture of goodwill'?

Makes no sense.

 

[JP Sauce]

self imposed pick 20 and 54, most severe penalties in AFL history... dramatic much?

Name 5 worse penalties please.

 

[Flynn White]

Can everyone STOP believing what the press says! Just wait for the bloody verdicts.

 

[jt_mcleod]

is this what demetriou will be using on adelaide?

 

[johnnypanther]

Who gets a larger sentence Jenny?

The man who holds the gun in the bank robbery or the person driving the get away car?

The decision maker for the robbery or the accessory to the incident?

I think the salient point is that any sentence is not handed out until a court has carried out its due and fair process.
Having said that, i have grave reservations that we will receive that from the AFL, i suspect somewhere between a kangaroo court and a salem witchcraft trial process will be closer to what happens.

 

[Apsaalooke]

If we haven't done anything major, then why have we behaved as though we have?

Volunteering to forfeit the picks has shattered any slim hope I had that this was all a media beat up and we'd only made a minor book-keeping snafu.

What I am most fearful of now is that the Board and key personnel will be more set on self preservation than on getting the best result for the club. A good result for Trigg/Harper/Reid/Chapman and a good result for the AFC may not be mutually inclusive.

You're right. Someones going to be thrown to the lions.

If its Trigg and Harper , we'll survive and maybe improve. If its massive fines and future draft picks then we're screwed. Lets hope the board puts the AFC ahead of misguided loyalty to managers who could at best be described as naive.

 

[Stripple]

The problem most have (or at least I) with your argument specious is that you are dismissing ourself imposed draft sanctions and the loss of Tippett as a small loss. Like others have said it is the biggest loss a club has faced since Carlton were done.

Carlton lost 3 first rounders, 2 second rounders, a third, and exclusion from the PSD.

We have lost the equivalent of three first rounders and a third.

It's not that different.