To Arch, Pessimistic. Some crowd figures

[Dan26]

Arch,

Considering you asked for crowd numbers, I have them for the last cpuple of years in the AFL year book, which comes with my AFL membership.

In 1999, Essendon led attendances with a total crowd figure of 1,122,495

Collingwood came second, with an impressive 886,750. Although, this was inflated by two matches each agaisnt Richmond, Essendon, and Carlton. How many of the 886,750 were Collingwood supporters ? But it is an impressive figure, nonetheless, and shows the potential of the proud old club.

Hawthorn were mid range with a reasonable 733,485.

In 1998, Essendon again led attendances with 1,169,551. This was a year in which the Bombers started 2-5, and only just finished 8th with a 12-10 record.

In 1998, the Magpies again finished second with 1,042,431. They got off to a good start in 1998, before fading away, and hardly winning a game in the second half of the year.

In 1998, Hawthorn were again mid-range with 686,407.

Now I don't have the 1997 figures on me, but I do know that Essendon and Collingwood again finished first and second in 1997. Neither reached a million, but both teams were in the high 900,000's. I think Collingowwod may have just edged out the Dons in 1997, actually. Something like 970,000 to 960,000, or something like that. I can't remember. They've probably got the figures in the 1997 GF record.

In 1997, Essendon finished 14th, and the Maggies finished 10th. Not bad figures for a team that finished 14th. Same with Collingwood for 16th in 1999.

None of these figures include finals.

So, there you have it.

Arch, I hope you have a good time at Subiaco. It won't be as easy as a lot of people think. Any road game is a challenge. Becasue Fremantle got rid of a lot of older and well-known players, people have tipped them to get the wooden spoon. But they have a young, enthusiastic team. We may not know a lot of the players, but Haselby looks to be very good, and a few others.

If we match their enthusiasm, we should hold them out by about 6 goals. But we don't want to get away to a bad start. They will come out fired up, as most teams will agaisnt the Bombers this year, so I'm sure it will be a spirited match.

I wonder if Riloi will get dropped. I'm telling you, it's on the cards.

 

[Dan26]

Pessimistic, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove comparing the 72,000 that turned up for the last home and away game at Waverley, to the 43,000 that turned up to Colonial Stadium for the first match.

First of all, becasue it was the LAST match at Waverley, it was the LAST chance for people to go, so they did. Was this just confined to Hawthorn ? I'm sure if it was St.Kilda vs Sydney in Round 22, there would have been a similar crowd.

As for Colonial Stadium,it is not the LAST match there. It is the first. There are 50 odd more matches to go to at that venue this year. It wasn't as if people would be saying "Gee, I'd beter go to Colonial, I might not get another chance" There will be countless opportunities for people to go. Unlike Waverley, where it was the last chance.

Also, I think 43,000, for an Ess-Port match (on a Thursday night as well !) is a great crowd. My brother for instance was going to go, but he thought it was a sell-out so he didn't. A lot of people probably thought it was going to be too hard to get a seat, so they didn't go. These people were wrong, and the 52,000 venue will comforatably hold most games this year.

At Waverley in 1999, no one was expecting any more than about 40,000 for Hawthorn vs Sydney, so it wasn't as if people were saying : "Gee, I'd better stay home, I might not get in". People were thinking this at Colonial, even though they didn't need to be thinking that.

I'm not too sure what you were trying to prove ?? Are you trying to compare Hawthorns support to Essendon when comparing these two matches ? Becasue, as I'm sure you're aware, there is not really a comparison. Essendon have miles more support. But hats off to the Hawks for their great membership, and off-field resurgence. All they need to do is turn it around on the field

 

[Pessimistic]

Points taken. I'm just stating that Hawthorn, Like St Kilda and Geelong have the same potential to be big drawcards. (eg the 90,000 at waverley in the early nineties)

Hawthorn did warn people to be early for the sydney game, DAN24, but as waverley has over 70,000 capacity (unlike Colonial) people still turned up. You putting your spin on it has given ana argument for waverley. and nearly 50,000 turned up for the Port adelaide Ansett Cup GF.

Granted we are second tier (in melbourne) but our strategy (everyone gets in at basic prices) mean we need to get More and More because we aren't creaming off our supporters for reserved seats like some clubs.

Incidentally, Essendon membership is now 32,000. Congratulations ! that's only a few thousand off the 'cap'of 35,000 I discussed earlier. Essendon will be back at the 'G' before you know it is my prediction. North or melbourne to move to colonial

On a lighter note - What do you call the watering system at docklands /

Colonic Irrigation !

 

[Dan26]

Pessimistic,

There will never be a cap on our membership.

Now I don't have the excat figures, but the Western Bulldogs and Essendon have the highest percentage of members who attend each game. For some strange reason, the Bulldogs average about 67% of their 20,000 odd membership attending each home game. Essendon has about 55% of our membership attend each week, on average.

Now, going by this, it means no more than 17,000 Essendon members turn up each week. Playing at a 52,000 seat stadium, for small games, and a 100,000 for bigger drawing clubs will pose no problems. We could accomodate 50,000 members easily.

I also take note that the Hawks have the lowest percentage of members who attend each game. I'm not sure of the figures but I made a mental note of the fact that Hawthorn were the lowest. It's still great that Hawthorn get behind their team, but that figure illustartes that a lot of Hawks fans bought a membership just to get behind the club (a very admirable thing to do), even if they have no intention of attending a game. At least, the club is benefitting I suppose.

I've often wondered if Essendons survival was ever threatened, what our membership would rise to. Fortuantley, we havn't had to deal with that problem, but no club is immune. Even the mighty popular Richmond had to fight for their survival some 10 years ago.

I notice that Carlton plays at a 30,000 seat venue, with only about 4-5,000 general admission seats and they are keen to increase their membership. They want to push towards 35,000, They have 26-27,000, something like that.

Yet, the Bombers who play at a 52,000 seat venue with as many as 12,000 general admission seats, have you claiming that we need to "cap" our membership.

WE also play 9 (possibly 10 or 11, games at the MCG). Remember, a large amount of memberships are 22 gmes memberships. Both my brother and sister have a 22 game Essendon membership.

And that 32,000 membership that the Bombers have include AFL members who support Essendon. That's me !! Thes people are called AFL club support members. These AFL members would not be taking up any of the general admission seats, or yearly reserved seats.

On a related note, Essendon has sold a massive number of yearly reserved seats. I'm not sure of the figures, but it is a record. This is great for the club finances, and convenient for those supporters who DO go to every home match.

 

[think again]

Dan24 thinks that Essendon alone led attendances in 1999. Sorry, that figure of 1,122,495 is for total attendances at games where Essondon was one of the two teams.

Why is this an important distinction? Because for many games that Essendon played there was another local club also drawing crowd to that game. Not the case for Sydney, West Coast or Adelaide. In virtually all of those clubs games only one of the two teams playing drew significant crowd. If the game was in Melbourne, the crowd was mostly that drawn by the Melbourne club. If a home game, the crowd mostly drawn by Sydney, West Coast or Adelaide.

 

[mk]

Well with the Essendon FC claiming to have 1.2 million supporters I would say that your crowds are only average!

 

[Dave]

Pess,
any club that plays a home game at colonial will end up with a "cap" of 35,000, not just the 3 tennant clubs! Given the AFL is moving towards the concept of "best fit" rather than "home & away" in Melbourne eventually all the melbourne clubs will play home games at both stadiums, leading to the sort of memberships that exist in English soccer, as described in one of the papers the other day.

 

[Dan26]

Think again,

Those figures I quoted were simply "who was the most watched team".

It is impossible to quantify how many of those people were Essendon, or the opposition, but at the end of the day, the Bombers total attendances at their games were over 1 million.

Suffice to say, even though that attendance obviously includes opposition supporters, to get such a huge number as Collingwood and Essendon do, the majority of the total is made up of Essendon supporters (and for Collingwood, their own supporters in their crowd totals)

There will never be a cap on memberships. If this was the case, how come Carlton havn't capped their membership at the 30,000 seat Optus Oval with only 4,000 general admission seats ? Well, why havn't they ?

If anyone did miss out at an Essendon home game (and I doubt it will happen), it will be opposition supporters. Like I said, that won't happen anyway, but Essendon members have certain priorities in the new stadium.

Essendon members have until noon on the Tuesday before a game for priority acccess to seats. No other supporter is allowed. The public is allowed to purchase a general admission ticket, but you might as well get one at the gate for $14.00.

With 50,000 members (presuming two-thirds turn up each week, which is an extraordinarily high number), this would leave Essendon members taking up just over 30,000 of the seats.

Currently, on average, we only have abut 17-18,000 members atending each home games on average. So, even with a massive 50,000 membership (which is years away from happening), there is heaps of room.

Can someone please explain to me, now that I have provided all that info, how a cap on memberships can possibly exist at a 52,000 seat venue, which is the second biggest AFL stadium in the country ?

Shell Stadium only holds about 27,000. Are Geelong going to cap their membership ? Of course not !

So, why would the Bombers when they are playing 9 games at a 52,000 seat venue (and these are smaller games, mind you), and another 9 games at a 100,000 seat venue (all the big games), cap their membership ? Essendon could probably provide for 60,000 members hypothetically. Anything between 30-40,000 members is easily fitable at Colonial, given that only half the membership attends each game.