To Shinboners (concerning Richmond)

[Dan26]

Shinboners,

I quite enjoy reading your posts. Unlike others you are actually an intelligent football follower.

I've noticed however, your dislike for the Richmond Football club.

In a recent post you noted their "bandwagon-jumping supporters".

It's not just you. A lot of other supporters have said the same thing about Richmond, claiming their supporters only come when they win.

Let me clear this up.

Richmond is, in the last 18 years, Victorias most unsuccessful club. If Collingwood, Essendon or Carlton were to miss the finals in 16 of the last 17 years (as Ricmond has), then their attendances will drop too.

I hear some Collingwood people saying :"But we still get good crowds, even though we have been poor"

The Pies have been poor from 1995 on. But even in 1996-97, they were competitive early and threatened to make the finals. Richmond were uncompetitive for a long period of time. From the mid 80's through to the early 90's, they would rarely win more than 6 games a season.

ANY club, who experience such prolonged periods of failure, not just for one year, but year-after-year will have a drop in crowds.

Do you honestly think Carlton, Collingwood or Essendon (or anyone) would be any different if they missed the finals for 16 years out of 17 ??

It is also interesting to note that the Tigers have missed the finals for the last 4 years.

Now, do you know what Richmonds total accumulative attendances were in each of those seasons ?

They were VERY high. Despite missing the finals for the last four years, the Tigers have still managed to consistent;y pull more than 750,000 (sometimes as much as 800,000) people through the turnstiles to watch them in years where they have missed the finals.

I have found that Richmond supporters are the most passionate in the league. They support their club more vocally than any other team. However, their capacity for turning up at matches is NO DIFFERENT to any other team.

 

[Shinboners]

Dan24

Well, I won't argue the crowds with you apart from the point that since '95, Richmond have always teased their fans with good performances before ultimately disappointing them. I think that twice in the last four years, they've just missed the finals by 1 game or something (one year, they were playing Melbourne for a finals spot and lost by 13 goals, much to my utter delight).

As for the bandwagon jumping, every club has fans like this.....even Essendon ;-) But I find that in regards to Richmond, accusing them of this seems to bite their fans more than any other, and from my personal experience, people who never ever talked about footy suddenly talked about their passion for Richmond during '95. And then stopped talking about them in '96.

My hatred for Richmond stems from the early 80s where North vs Richmond games not only filled the MCG, but also had a ferocious atmosphere and their fans matched Collingwood's for intimidation. And they also used to beat us. Mind you, they had a great side in those days.....just reel off the names....Rioli, Jess, Roach, Bourke, Monteath, Bartlett, Sheedy, Malthouse, Lee, Cloke....none of the current Richmond team are fit to lick their boots.

 

[Dan26]

Yeah, there is no doubt their supporters are intimidating. When the team is on fire, the Richmond noise reverberats around the MCG like no other.

Personally, I like the Tigers. I like the passion of their supporters. You can say what you want, but to make as much noise as they do, you have to have a passion.

I think I like the Tigers because they are a bit like Essendon (historically)

Both have a sash on their guernseys. Both have won a lot of premierships. Both have similar "cult" followings, and similar amounts of success (not recently, but over their whole history)

When the Tigers are on song, there is a special feeling around Melbourne. It's good for football. If they are winning, they are the one club, who, if you go down the local shop, you will hear some yobbo yell "Go Tiges"

Not many (if any) clubs are like that.

Personally, I think a successful Richmond is good for football. The AFL would be pretty happy righ now, regarding the Tigers.

A Richmond -Essendon Grand Final is something I thought I would bever see, yet it might just happen (hope, hope). Who knows ?

 

[Shinboners]

While I would agree that Richmond could have something called a "cult" following (if only for the last 15 years or so), I don't think it's true of Essendon. You can't be the most popular club AND have a cult following. As one commentator put it slyly about Essendon's closed door training session last night, "it's to keep their teenybopper fans out". Or as I thought of it, to keep the younger and more available Essendon players away from the gaol bait ;-)

I reckon the ultimate club for a cult following would have to be St. Kilda (even if every second media **** came out as being a Saints fan during '97). Not only for their fans and their incredible capacity for disappointment, but also for players like, Dittreich, Winmar, Lockett, and of course, Robbie Muir.

 

[Dan26]

Point taken about the Saints.

They do have a cult following.

But, about Essendon, I think you are being a bit harsh. Whilst a lot of young people barrack for Essendon (due to our success in the Sheedy era), I would also bet we would have more "old" supporters than just about every other club.

Essendon is a club, remember, which has been consistently succesful for the better part of it's history (except for the 1930's, where the club failed to make the finals)

Except for that, the club has always been successful, indicated, by our longest premiership drough being only 19 years. EVERY other club, at some point in their history has had a longer premiership drought, but 19 years is the longest any Bomber fan has had to wait.

So, there are not just teeny-boppers fans, I can assure you.

What I mean by "cult" following, is that capacity for supporters to turn up, and give everyone the impression they have all arrived together. You know, that look, when ALL the supporters have the merchandise on. That ability, to look around the MCG and see every Richmond or Essendon fan dressed in their club colours, all devoted to the same cause.

I think Essendon (and Richmond) fit the bill perfectly.

Carlton supporters, on the other hand (I'm not bashing them, this is just an observation), don't seem to be as enthusiastic towrads wearing the club colours. Certainly not to the same extent as Essendon or Richmond. So, you don't get that "feeling" that all Carlton supporters are devoted to the same cause. You don't get that "cult" feel.

If you go to an Essendon game at the MCG, even against a Victorian club, have a look at the top deck of the Southern Stand. It is a sea of red and black. I believe Essendon has the "cult" appeal, certainly (my opinion)

Perhaps you can make the observation this Sunday, and report back, if you think I have a case.

 

[Shinboners]

Sorry. I wasn't meant to sound harsh about Essendon and the teenyboppers...it's just a gentle dig. I still don't agree with you on the cult thing though....you can always see what you want to see in a crowd, but to my neutral eye, apart from the colours, there's really nothing that sets Essendon apart from Richmond, Carlton, or Collingwood. But one of the best things about the MCG is when you do see one of these four clubs and their team gets a run on....you hear a section of fans just chanting the team's name and it just gets louder and louder, sort of like an aural tidal wave.

The Carlton fans. I don't have any problems with them. In most North vs Carlton games, the Carlton fans I've met at games have been a decent bunch....pretty knowledgable about the game, a little smug, but usually complimentary to things that North do well. I tend to think the Carlton "arrogance" has more to do with John Elliot than anything else. It's almost a caricature.

Incidentally, the only colours I wear to the footy is my North scarf, although I did do some DJing once whilst wearing my North jumper (much to the disgust of Melbourne's indie-elites) and in '98, I considered offering a free CD to anyone who came in to the club and pissed on an Adelaide scarf, jumper, or poster.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the North vs Essendon game. I'm pretty much hoping for the best but expecting the worst. OH dammit....North by 10 goals! Carey to kick a dozen and Mighty Mick Martyn to be best on ground.

 

[Pessimistic]

I haven't seen them this year but the saints have the biggest flags-to-supporters ratio around (there is a higher density of flag-waving when they score)Perhaps this is because they have lots of kids or because they bought a lot of them in '97

PS Dan24 I did see the Essendon-St Kilda game last year and this was true there also.

 

[Pessimistic]

Please excuse the grammar. I didn't intend to say that st Kilda have lots of kids or bought kids in 1997. I meant that if a large prportion of the crowd are young they might be more flags, especially if they had been to a Grand final recently and had bought flags.

Incidentally we touched on real support. Some supporters encourage their team even when they are down. But not many.

Crows and Power would be fans who do.

Hawthorn fans were getting into it at waverley but Colonial took a little getting used to. There was more enthusiasm for berating John Harvey than encouraging the team. Perhaps it's becaus we were never going to lose, as Freo definately weren't trying to win

 

[sainter]

Probably a sad reflection on saints fans is the large proportion of supporters that wear 1997 St Kilda Grand Final clothes to the games. You wouldn't catch any other teams wearing anything to do with a losing Grand Final.

As for the 'teenybopper' Essendon supporters, an Essendon supporting friend of mine was telling me how much he loves being an Essendon supporter because the atmosphere is so good with so many young supporters. Which he tells me is in direct contrast to the family orientated atmosphere of Waverley which he did not like. It is actually a scary thought to think of how big their membership could be in 5 - 10 years time with their enormous amount of teenagers, particularly girls, at their games.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Dan24 back in EARLY 2000:
Shinboners,

I quite enjoy reading your posts. Unlike others you are actually an intelligent football follower.

This was psted back in early 2000.Remember when we were friends? *sniff*sniff*

My eyes are welling up at the memorys. Excuse me, I've got something in my eye. I'll be right back. This is just too emotional.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Is this an old thread? Did you know I was stuck on a deserted island for 4 years?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Yeah, btw Tom, I have your volleyball friend. He says you bored the shit out of him.

 

[The Dutchman!]

I was wondering why Shinner and Dan were talking - I personally would never forgive a word like "meaningless" - its about as disrespectful as you can get folks.... thanks for clearing that up Tom (you old fat b%^$%^%d)

Can't wait for the latest edition of the Mighty Mick v the Mighty Mouthguard pantomine shinner - what are the odds that Mick will get booked again???

PS. Love the Crows pissing story shinner!!

 

[Brian]

But even Chamberlain was entertained by Adolf before he worked out what a nasty piece of work the man with the funny mo was!

 

[Damir Dokic]

I voss nobody back then. Me come to dis country wit nothing, just shert on mi back AND TWO PISSESS OFF FEEESH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CJH]

It nearly brought a tear to the eye seeing the Mighty Tigers being defended by one of the opposition!



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This is a hallucination and these faces are in a dream. A computer generated environment; a fantasy island you can do anything and not have to face the consequences.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by CJH:
It nearly brought a tear to the eye seeing the Mighty Tigers being defended by one of the opposition!

Well, occasionally, they need defending. They cop a lot of undeserving shit, sometimes.

 

[Kostya Tszyu]

I won today.

 

[Same Old's]

Congratulations are in order then.

 

[Kostya Tszyu]

Yes indeed. Congratulation certainly are in order.