Current Tobacco Wars

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Carn The Berries said:
Of course that's the case initially... People who are addicted to vapes will still want the hit.

The major argument against the increased restriction on vapes is that they will help people from making the decision to SMOKE ANYTHING in the future.
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I don't think you vape so you probably wouldn't know.

Perhaps take what New Zealand is considering on board then, that nobody born after 2008 can buy cigarettes at all.
 
Carn The Berries said:
As someone who has had to try and deal with the fallout in terms of health outcomes for school aged children, yes, I am fanatical about this. I'm not trying to hide that.
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Dont let kids smoke or vape. It's disposable single use vapes that are the problem, nobody knows what's in them, they're illegal and are purchased cheap through the black market. This is the thriving black market the government is driving with bad policy.

Real vape stores do not sell nicotine, tobacco or single use vapes.
 

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Kurve said:
I don't think you vape so you probably wouldn't know.

Perhaps take what New Zealand is considering on board then, that nobody born after 2008 can buy cigarettes at all.
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I think that's an excellent policy, but in the absence of that happening (there doesn't seem to be any great will to do so in Australia) why should we put kids at risk unnecessarily when there are steps that can be taken (which don't cap the DOB of purchase) to reduce that risk?
 
Kurve said:
Dont let kids smoke or vape. It's disposable single use vapes that are the problem, nobody knows what's in them, they're illegal and are purchased cheap through the black market. This is the thriving black market the government is driving with bad policy.

Real vape stores do not sell nicotine, tobacco or single use vapes.
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Ahhhhhh, yep, we should look at that. I can't believe that hasn't been tried in the last couple of decades. Schools should really have education programs on the dangers of smoking.
 
Kurve said:
Perhaps take what New Zealand is considering on board then, that nobody born after 2008 can buy cigarettes at all.
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Yes, that's an excellent policy. I would suggest adding Nobody born after 1910 can buy a vape (other than from a pharmacy with a prescription) :cool:
 
Carn The Berries said:
Ahhhhhh, yep, we should look at that. I can't believe that hasn't been tried in the last couple of decades. Schools should really have education programs on the dangers of smoking.
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With likely more success if vaping was regulated like cigarettes are. I noticed you totally ignored my point on bad policy driving the illegal trade, one of the reasons we're in this thread since we're seeing sometimes one firebombing a day.
 
Kurve said:
With likely more success if vaping was regulated like cigarettes are. I noticed you totally ignored my point on bad policy driving the illegal trade, one of the reasons we're in this thread since we're seeing sometimes one firebombing a day.
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I'd argue it's good policy turning crims against crims, destroying stores that sell poison to people (and probably the poisons inside), pushing up the price of poison, and deterring honest people from investing in the business of selling poison to people. Actually, that's something often overlooked by the pro-drug / anti-regulation crowd. They point to the cost of policing while ignoring the cost not only to users but also of resources including capital diverted from productive enterprise to the unproductive business of making and selling poison to people, and the lost productivity of users.
 
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jason_recliner said:
I'd argue it's good policy turning crims against crims, destroying stores that sell poison to people (and probably the poisons inside), pushing up the price of poison, and deterring honest people from investing in the business of selling poison to people. Actually, that's something often overlooked by the pro-drug / anti-regulation crowd. They point to the cost of policing while ignoring the cost not only to users but also of resources including capital diverted from productive enterprise to the unproductive business of making and selling poison to people, and the lost productivity of users.
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That's a really ill thought attitude to have.

You won't care until one of your kids or someone else's is in there getting illegal chop chop or smokes and it goes up in flames or they're witness to things no kid should see or be associated with.

Or someone you know has a business near one of them (they're everywhere) that goes up in flames and their insurance suddenly jumps to unaffordable.

Why do you think fire bombings are occuring in the first place? It's to knock the competition out, so they can continue to trade more profitably.
 
Kurve said:
That's a really ill thought attitude to have.

You won't care until one of your kids or someone else's is in there getting illegal chop chop or smokes and it goes up in flames or they're witness to things no kid should see or be associated with.
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How many kids have been killed so far by bombings? How many kids have been harmed by vaping or smoking chop-chop? You can probably guess which risk I consider greater. Regardless, if it was my kids killed, I'd blame the criminals who bombed the store, not the government and police for doing their jobs.

Kurve said:
Or someone you know has a business near one of them (they're everywhere) that goes up in flames and their insurance suddenly jumps to unaffordable.
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Perhaps it won't be possible for criminals to take up leases for vape/tobacco shops eventually.


Kurve said:
Why do you think fire bombings are occuring in the first place? It's to knock the competition out, so they can continue to trade more profitably....
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... until they too are bombed or locked up . As I used to say to my prisoners when they were boasting about how much money they once made and how it was so much more than I made doing legitimate work, "oh yeah? And how much did you make this week?" :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
 
jason_recliner said:
How many kids have been killed so far by bombings? How many kids have been harmed by vaping or smoking chop-chop? Regardless, if it was my kids killed, I'd blame the criminals who bombed the store, not the government and police for doing their jobs.
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How many fire bombs are we seeing now in comparison to a few years ago? The risk is going up.

jason_recliner said:
Perhaps it won't be possible for ciminls to take up leases for vape/tobacco shops eventually.
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There's clearly enough money in it they could probably buy their own shops.

jason_recliner said:
... until they too are bombed or locked up .
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:rolleyes:
 
www.thetimes.co.uk

First hospital vaping shops to help smokers kick habit

Two hospitals in the Midlands have become the first in Britain to open shops selling e-cigarettes to patients and visitors as part of efforts to eradicate smoking. Somewhere between the X-ray department and the blood testing centre at Sandwell General Hospital in West Bromwich the shop sells prod
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk
 

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Two in two weeks, Ballarat.

Thick plumes of smoke could be seen across the city early this morning.

Nobody was physically injured during the incident, but the business and two adjacent buildings were destroyed in the blaze.

Police say they were called to a ram raid at a nearby tobacco store on Curtis Street shortly after.

www.abc.net.au

Firefighters battle second tobacco shop blaze to hit Ballarat in a fortnight

A fire in Ballarat comes after another tobacconist in Bakery Hill was destroyed by fire on February 1.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
Prohibition doesn't work.

It's like doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. What's that called again?
 
jason_recliner said:
Actually it does, really well. Look at all the harm caused by alcohol and smoking. Now consider the harm if all drugs were as cheap as soft drink and freely available to everybody over 18 in every suburb in Australia.
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Alcohol is part of our culture. Drugs are part of certain subcultures. How are kids in Amsterdam? Do we know?
 
TheEscapeClub said:
We release Majid Alibadi on bail. He has no visible means of income and steps out of court into a new $600,000 Rolls Royce with his mates in a new looking Lambo in front of him.

We're such a soft touch for these campaigners.
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maybe he invested in bitcoin in 2011, who's to say 🙃
 
jason_recliner said:
Actually it does, really well. Look at all the harm caused by alcohol and smoking. Now consider the harm if all drugs were as cheap as soft drink and freely available to everybody over 18 in every suburb in Australia.
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You know cops and ambos and social workers all smoke right? High trauma jobs.

You know most kids don't feel the need to get off their face right?
 
There's a new alternative to nicotine been created, a synthetic nicotine called stym and it's not banned. :tearsofjoy:

Synthetic nicotine is a form of nicotine that’s created in a lab and not made from tobacco leaves. Although no tobacco is involved, the nicotine content in synthetic nicotine is still the same nicotine you’d find in other nicotine products. Synthetic nicotine is often produced as a liquid so that it can be used for vaping.
 
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