Live Chat Toby Greene fronts the tribunal - Suspension appeal

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Libba39

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Imo it was right on the line, I would say he was more pushing his head into the ground rather than banging it.
There's plenty of things Greene should have been suspended for in the past (eg studs up fly kick to the face) but this is not one of them.

I honestly think $7500 is too excessive if there was no eye-gouging - it's like the fine had to grow to appease some media personalities as the outrage grew.
WC05 - if Nic Nat was prone on the ground with another player grabbing his head by the hair and 'pushing' it into the ground and pulling it how do you think he'd react?

He'd probably break the guy's jaw and get 6 weeks in the process. Reckon it would be worth a week suspension then?

All hypothetical but I'd love to hear your opinion.
 

WestCoast05

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WC05 - if Nic Nat was prone on the ground with another player grabbing his head by the hair and 'pushing' it into the ground and pulling it how do you think he'd react?

He'd probably break the guy's jaw and get 6 weeks in the process. Reckon it would be worth a week suspension then?

All hypothetical but I'd love to hear your opinion.
It's a bad hypothetical - they wouldn't target NicNat in that manner precisely for the reaction that it would get off him and from others in our team - both on field and in returning fire at the offending players.
Targeting Bont would have been a coach driven strategy - do you really think if they were playing the tigers they would try this with Dusty? 'Course not.

You guys were fielding a young team and GWS correctly guessed their strategy would throw them off their game. And GWS have the type of players able to employ this strategy well.
I wouldn't be surprised if they try a lite version of that versus Brisbane, especially now a Mitch Robinson is looking like he won't be on the field.
Greene needs to reign it in though obviously. He loves to flirt with the line and only a matter of time before he crosses it again.

And if NicNat got 6 I would be pi**ed at him for the over-reaction and for setting the team back in finals (I dont think the semi-choke-slam was an over-reaction though, I would say warranted for the hair pull). Fire back, but don't get yourself suspended.
 

BernieBrown

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It's a bad hypothetical - they wouldn't target NicNat in that manner precisely for the reaction that it would get off him and from others in our team - both on field and in returning fire at the offending players.
Targeting Bont would have been a coach driven strategy - do you really think if they were playing the tigers they would try this with Dusty? 'Course not.

You guys were fielding a young team and GWS correctly guessed their strategy would throw them off their game. And GWS have the type of players able to employ this strategy well.
I wouldn't be surprised if they try a lite version of that versus Brisbane, especially now a Mitch Robinson is looking like he won't be on the field.
Greene needs to reign it in though obviously. He loves to flirt with the line and only a matter of time before he crosses it again.

And if NicNat got 6 I would be pi**ed at him for the over-reaction and for setting the team back in finals (I dont think the semi-choke-slam was an over-reaction though, I would say warranted for the hair pull). Fire back, but don't get yourself suspended.
Hope the Dogs can find some fight for the rematch. We were definitely out-muscled. Now we know what we can get away with.
 

SloppyJoe

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Based on all the evidence, I don't have a problem with the result. You don't get a suspension for pushing someone's head into the ground.

Now if there was actual footage of an eye gouge and/or if the medical report indicated something like scrapes/bruising around the eyes, then I'd have a problem with it.

EDIT: I should also say that I would be livid if it was a player on my team receiving this treatment. But it's one of those save the aggression for the next time you meet things.
 

BernieBrown

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Great work by the AFL to fine Toby. He’s now in the top 10 in the fines charged over his career.

I haven’t seen the AFL rush through a decision like this since since Bontempelli was fined based on inconclusive medical findings.
In defence of the Bont - I think every club has a player who has built a good reputation over the years and they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Was it malicious? Intentional? Extended? Or something hundreds of players have done before?
In comparison, let's look at Greene's reputation? Let's even give him the benefit of the doubt and ask if he is trying to clean up his act? Is he turning over a new leaf?
 

Andre the Giant

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No need to be rude as well as ignorant Andre.

The only person subject to a writ is Toby Greene himself (and his mate and the plaintiffs employer) by the victim of his assault in 2014.

“The plaintiff was dragged down stairs, repeatedly punched and kicked, struck with a crutch, pushed to the ground, pinned on the ground, and placed in a chokehold and/or headlock manoeuvre using legs,” the court documents claim. - Thats Toby Greene and his mate on a night out.
Was charged by Police with - Intentionally causing serious injury, recklessly causing injury, affray, assault in company, assault by kicking, assault with a weapon, unlawful assault and making threats to inflict serious injury. (...but hey no eye-gouging).
At the time Greene pleaded guilty to assault at Melbourne Magistrates’ Court and was fined $2500 without conviction.
(GWS gave him a 5 week club suspension before the case was even heard - used to help mitigate his eventual sentence. Big deal he was injured at the time.)

Same again on the football field, Greene once again does a despicable act, pleads guilty and only receives a fine.
Obviously "serious misconduct" is not treated seriously by the AFL tribunal when sentencing recidivists with 16 prior convictions.

Interestingly all this talk of defamation is not coming from GWS but from biased fans.
Sure, procedurally he could issue a writ like anyone can, but he'd find it very hard to get a judgement in his favour
Defamation? - There's nothing left of Greenes reputation to protect. :p
Serial offender.
Thug.
Shame - he can actually play football.
Anyhow Dennis Denuto this is gouging - 👌
 

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FastLane

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Irony much?

Dogs were gifted a flag due to most biased umpiring in a season and GF EVER!!
Also gifted a finals berth this year after conveniently Chrisso didnt wait for GWS medical report- which would have rubbed Bont out for weeks and deprived him of the Brownlow he will get this year.
Add to this, the most obvious umpiring bias seen in the second and third quarter of the elimination final against GWS on saturday.
Rubbish club should have merged with Fitzroy- exists because financially strong clubs support it.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you, grubby little mutts
 

The Filth

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Anyhow Dennis Denuto this is gouging - 👌
Yep.
And I hope Thugby can stamp out this ugly practice. (I think "eye-gouging" in League is a specific chargeable offence.)
No place for a player to be putting his fingers anywhere near his oppenents eyes like Toby Greene did.
Thankfully it hasn't been a common offence in AFL. Another reason why a tougher penalty was called for, to set a example.

Interestingly Rugby Union doesn't have "eye-gouging" in its rules as a specific reportable offence.
The game's laws refer to it as "contact with eyes or the eye area of an opponent" but such incidents are still usually referred to as "eye-gouging" among players and in the media.

Thanks for the Dennis Denuto reference, I know a couple of people at Working Dog Productions from their D-Gen and Melb Uni Review days at uni.
Cilauro and Sitch did the Law Review in the early 80's. Cilauro was doing Arts/Law. Gleisner was a law student then too, same era as me. Good times.

Funnily I recall a defamation case from a couple of years ago where a family court lawyer tried to claim damages for defamation from a client who referred to him as Dennis Denuto. He won the case but the judge denied his claim for damages.

Anyway, Toby Greene didn't eye gouge LOL, whatever you say, however you justify it to yourself - must have just been "the vibe" everyone apart from GWS supporters (including former players and the Media) have when viewing the incident. :p
The marks around Bontempellis eyes after the incident must have been self inflicted;)
In any case, in your view (eye-gouging aside) it must be okay after the umpire has blown the whistle to: jump on a player back who is on the ground,
put your hands in his face, grab his hair, repeatedly slam his face into the turf whilst keeping an eye out to see if the umpire is watching.
Then plead guilty and only get a fine for a deliberate cowardly act despite 16 previous convictions?
Culture.
 
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ChesterTreasure

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He pleaded guilty to his overall charge or misconduct, not specifically eye-gouging.

There doesn’t seem to be any medical report or reference to gouging in his overall misconduct charge.

Bulldogs fans probably need to lay off referring to it as gouging as it’s just factually incorrect and petulant.
If the Bulldogs wanted him suspended, all that Bont had to do is state that the contact was to his eyes.
He didn't - opportunity missed.
 

KevDawg

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Where did I say nothing was done to GWS players?
Nice attempt at deflection.
Thread is "Toby Greene fronts the Tribunal" not "tell me that nothing was done to Josh Kelly"
What are your views on the Toby Greene incident?
I’ve posted this earlier.
Watch the whole clip from Mark Stevenson’s report.
Bont and some other bullflog lift Josh Kelly up into the air and both body slam him to the ground. The other dog puts his hands on Kelly’s face in the tackle.
Toby and Matt DB then arrive and leap on.
It’s early in the game, right 12-15 minutes in. Toby is obviously remembering Bont vs Haynes and him getting off Scott free. I’m sure his anger was up before the game then he saw that.
There isn’t immediate bruising or a cut showing until after Bont gets the accidental elbow and leaves the field with the blood rule.
I’m glad he and de Boer dived in to help Josh Kelly, on his back with two flogs on top of him.
Umpire 22 is seen awarding Kelly a free for the dangerous tackle.
So, not condoning what Toby did, I really didn’t like the hair and the butting into the ground, but that’s the full video.
Can you justify the lift and dump of Kelly from Bont?
 

The Filth

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I’ve posted this earlier.
Watch the whole clip from Mark Stevenson’s report.
Bont and some other bullflog lift Josh Kelly up into the air and both body slam him to the ground. The other dog puts his hands on Kelly’s face in the tackle.
Toby and Matt DB then arrive and leap on.
It’s early in the game, right 12-15 minutes in. Toby is obviously remembering Bont vs Haynes and him getting off Scott free. I’m sure his anger was up before the game then he saw that.
There isn’t immediate bruising or a cut showing until after Bont gets the accidental elbow and leaves the field with the blood rule.
I’m glad he and de Boer dived in to help Josh Kelly, on his back with two flogs on top of him.
Umpire 22 is seen awarding Kelly a free for the dangerous tackle.
So, not condoning what Toby did, I really didn’t like the hair and the butting into the ground, but that’s the full video.
Can you justify the lift and dump of Kelly from Bont?
No.
It was a dangerous tackle, in the course of play.
Greene then jumps on Bontempelli after the umpire blows the whistle for the free.
I don't mind seing players try a pull opposition players away from their teammates in an effort to protect them (even though being last man in can still lead to brawls) but what Greene did was inexcuseable and a cheap shot.
Bulldogs aren't choirboys, but GWS had a plan to target Bontempelli because he was too big a threat to them as a player.
Went a bit to far with the tactics they employed.
 
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Credit2thaB0is

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Why was Toby anywhere near Bonts head in the first place?
Maybe because it's a contact sport where things can and more often than not do get heated in, between, and off play especially in do or die finals.

Sure he took it over the line by mushing Bont's head into the ground. But you get it right? In a final, in the heat of the moment, after a dangerous tackle on a team mate, a bit of physical remonstration. I'd be surprised if players didn't take it right to the edge in certain moments and as a result cross the line at times.

He got whacked with a big fine for it which was arguably too much. A suspension would have been a ridiculous outcome to this.
 

The Filth

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Maybe because it's a contact sport where things can and more often than not do get heated in, between, and off play especially in do or die finals.

Sure he took it over the line by mushing Bont's head into the ground. But you get it right? In a final, in the heat of the moment, after a dangerous tackle on a team mate, a bit of physical remonstration. I'd be surprised if players didn't take it right to the edge in certain moments and as a result cross the line at times.

He got whacked with a big fine for it which was arguably too much. A suspension would have been a ridiculous outcome to this.
So your solution is to fine players during finals, let them whack away with impunity and only get suspensions for identical acts during H&A season?
Barry Hall should not have played in the 2005 GF after punching the Saints Matt Maguire in the Prelim.
 

Credit2thaB0is

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So your solution is to fine players during finals, let them whack away with impunity and only get suspensions for identical acts during H&A season?
Barry Hall should not have played in the 2005 GF after punching the Saints Matt Maguire in the Prelim.
My solution is that the system worked well enough in this instance so I don't see a problem. The penalty has been paid and now it's "play on".
 

Ancient Tiger

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I’ve posted this earlier.
Watch the whole clip from Mark Stevenson’s report.
Bont and some other bullflog lift Josh Kelly up into the air and both body slam him to the ground. The other dog puts his hands on Kelly’s face in the tackle.
Toby and Matt DB then arrive and leap on.
It’s early in the game, right 12-15 minutes in. Toby is obviously remembering Bont vs Haynes and him getting off Scott free. I’m sure his anger was up before the game then he saw that.
There isn’t immediate bruising or a cut showing until after Bont gets the accidental elbow and leaves the field with the blood rule.
I’m glad he and de Boer dived in to help Josh Kelly, on his back with two flogs on top of him.
Umpire 22 is seen awarding Kelly a free for the dangerous tackle.
So, not condoning what Toby did, I really didn’t like the hair and the butting into the ground, but that’s the full video.
Can you justify the lift and dump of Kelly from Bont?
I’m not sure why the details you just posted have anything to do with justifying the piss poor penalty Toby got for his dog act. They only indicate other poor acts that may have occurred earlier. If they happened then you could argue further charges could have been laid on bulldog players. This still has nothing to do with exonerating Toby. Are we really wanting to send a message to the kids following the game that this behaviour is ok? Ridiculous decision by the AFL.
 

The Filth

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My solution is that the system worked well enough in this instance so I don't see a problem. The penalty has been paid and now it's "play on".
A serial thug, with a record a mile long, caught red handed should not be allowed to "play on". Yeah the system worked well to protect a thug.
You can't touch the AFL's love child though. Same as Sydney in days gone by.
It doesn't matter, I think there are better teams than GWS left in the race for the flag so I don't think GWS can go all the way this year anyway.
 

HahnPremium

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ehhh. Not that bothered. Only one salient fact remains for me.
From now on, to all clubs, his papers are stamped. He's run the complete gamut of cheap tricks and dog acts.
2020 will not be happy season for the Tobester.
 

Credit2thaB0is

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A serial thug, with a record a mile long, caught red handed should not be allowed to "play on".
You can't touch the AFL's love child though. Same as Sydney in days gone by.
It doesn't matter, I think there are better teams than GWS left in the race for the flag so I don't think GWS can go all the way this year anyway.
Toby's record isn't the best but he was caught red handed doing what? Barely crossing the line in a cut-throat finals scuffle. He went a bit too far and the punishment he got for it fit.

Sydney wasn't a love child ever. If the AFL was ever biased in favour of us and it was because we were a young club, then so be it. That's just what's done for children - they're given a bit more love and support than the big boys. I don't think this is controversial. And it's not relevant to the discussion over Toby.

That said GWS are very unlikely to win the flag from here. I just don't think they can bring it consistently on the road, even if it's just 3 more games. But anything can happen.
 
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