Toby Greene makes contact with umpire - Update: Suspension Increased to 6 weeks on Appeal

[threesixpio]

Surprised it wasn’t more - and likely will be after an AFL appeal

 

[Sydney Kicker]

As a supporter with my team not in the finals, part of me now would love to see GWS win the whole thing. Greene has been a $hit human for a long time now. Bloody good player but truly a flog of the highest order. It would be fitting to see his stupidity / unnecessary tough guy aggression cost him a premiership.

Not sure what other life skills he has outside football, but he better make sure he stacks his cash away now whilst he's still playing because he is as dumb as a box of rocks. I'm not sure what he will manage to do post his footy career, but it doesn't look promising to me unless he starts to growth the "F" up!

Maybe role models like Wayne Carey and Dermott Brereton could mentor him to support a post footy transition to a media career.

 

[sherb]

Surprised it wasn’t more - and likely will be after an AFL appeal

Three weeks is generous in the extreme for that, I agree.

 

[Alesana]

I mean, sight unseen some would think he must have

There have been some fair old intentional, dangerous, head high snipes to unprotected players that have only gotten 2 matches in the recent past.
I would have thought Gillon would have appealed those, but "good bloke defence" you know....

Where was Gill when Selwood got 0 weeks for flat-out eye gouging Taylor Duryea?

 

[Muddiemoose]

Anyone know if the 16 game suspension mark is still the tiger for deregistration?
With his 3 from today his sitting at 11 obviously if the AFL now push for more he could be getting very close to that 16 week trigger

 

[Geoff Dickson]

Anyone know if the 16 game suspension mark is still the tiger for deregistration?
With his 3 from today his sitting at 11 obviously if the AFL now push for more he could be getting very close to that 16 week trigger

I thought the same thing....but the AFL is the only league in Australia that does not use that policy.

 

[Muddiemoose]

I thought the same thing....but the AFL is the only league in Australia that does not use that policy.

I know ex AFL players had a reduction in games suspended when they retire or something like that not a full clean slate but get a certain amount of games knocked off but I didn’t realise the AFL comp didn’t follow the same standards per the 16 game limit

 

[OnlyPowerForever]

The closest comparable incident that I have witnessed, in a similar domain was when an ex-teammate of mine shrugged/pushed off the attempted handshake of the referee at the end of a South Australian NPL match, while in animated discussion with him.

His punishment was 5 games.

I think people arguing that Greene is somehow hard done by on this occasion are either trying to make a martyr out of someone who definitely doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt OR they simply don’t get the bigger picture and the importance of showing respect and protecting umpires and officials across all sports and why this sort of behavior needs to be made an example of. This is not Neale or Hawkins or even Greene’s earlier season umpire touching level. It’s next level contact to 99.9% of reasonable people and it has to be dealt with accordingly.

Don't agree with your bolded comment, if you only take isolated instances of "respect to umpires" then the inconsistency makes "the bigger picture" just as bad. It implies, as you have hinted at in your comments, that there are "acceptable ways" of making intentional contact with an umpire.

Steven May cleared of contact with an umpire, I bet he knew he shouldn't but did whilst protesting a decision.
Ed Curnow pushes away an umpire explaining a decision - 1 match
Charlie Curnow pushes away an umpire in trying to get to a melee - fine only
Dustin Martin pushed away an umpire after an extended discussion protesting a decision - fine only
Robbie Gray careless contact with an umpire - fine only
Willie Rioli - gentle tap - fine - no problem with that one.
Tom Hawkins pushes away an umpire after giving away a free kick - 1 week
Lachie Neale - pushes an umpire to get his attention - fine only

SEVEN instances of intentional umpiring contact, for a total of TWO weeks suspension.
6 of the 7 instances showing a lack of respect for protecting umpires.

To ban Greene for a finals series, is so completely out of whack. For something that the umpire did not feel was a reportable offence at the time, indeed didn't raise it even in passing conversation for the rest of the game.

Want to make an example of it? Well certainly have now, agree on that. AFL will make sure its a six-game example and not just three. I really do now look forward to the next time intentional umpire contact happens, and we know it will.

It worked with the Chris Judd Chicken Wing tackle, but that wasn't something we'd seen before so was made clear from the start, which was good to see.

We saw this "AFL making an example" with Greene raising the outstretched boot and copping a charge, despite it being a modus operandi for players like Hawkins and J Riewoldt for years.

I only wish we'd seen the "AFL making an example" when Luke Hodge tried to decapitate Chad Wingard, or when Trent Cotchin took out Dylan Shiel, as two immediate obvious examples that come to mind.

Rant Over. Agree to disagree. Goodnight.

 

[mattpolo8]

I thought the same thing....but the AFL is the only league in Australia that does not use that policy.

this would suggest otherwise

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2020/02/06/b3e14782-032f-4b72-a184-301a83ac8c27/National-Player-and-Official-Deregistration-Policy-February-2020.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3WqmfX9yBo4Jn0sjys8ksKp5TYgBGvkwH257EXpBJ2Q0LFUS-6cExLViY

 

[Hoops]

Don't agree with your bolded comment, if you only take isolated instances of "respect to umpires" then the inconsistency makes "the bigger picture" just as bad. It implies, as you have hinted at in your comments, that there are "acceptable ways" of making intentional contact with an umpire.

Steven May cleared of contact with an umpire, I bet he knew he shouldn't but did whilst protesting a decision.
Ed Curnow pushes away an umpire explaining a decision - 1 match
Charlie Curnow pushes away an umpire in trying to get to a melee - fine only
Dustin Martin pushed away an umpire after an extended discussion protesting a decision - fine only
Robbie Gray careless contact with an umpire - fine only
Willie Rioli - gentle tap - fine - no problem with that one.
Tom Hawkins pushes away an umpire after giving away a free kick - 1 week
Lachie Neale - pushes an umpire to get his attention - fine only

SEVEN instances of intentional umpiring contact, for a total of TWO weeks suspension.
6 of the 7 instances showing a lack of respect for protecting umpires.

To ban Greene for a finals series, is so completely out of whack. For something that the umpire did not feel was a reportable offence at the time, indeed didn't raise it even in passing conversation for the rest of the game.

Want to make an example of it? Well certainly have now, agree on that. AFL will make sure its a six-game example and not just three. I really do now look forward to the next time intentional umpire contact happens, and we know it will.

It worked with the Chris Judd Chicken Wing tackle, but that wasn't something we'd seen before so was made clear from the start, which was good to see.

We saw this "AFL making an example" with Greene raising the outstretched boot and copping a charge, despite it being a modus operandi for players like Hawkins and J Riewoldt for years.

I only wish we'd seen the "AFL making an example" when Luke Hodge tried to decapitate Chad Wingard, or when Trent Cotchin took out Dylan Shiel, as two immediate obvious examples that come to mind.

Rant Over. Agree to disagree. Goodnight.

You missed the one when Greene made contact with the umpire earlier this year.
It's as though all umpire contact is not equal.

 

[z547043]

Don't agree with your bolded comment, if you only take isolated instances of "respect to umpires" then the inconsistency makes "the bigger picture" just as bad. It implies, as you have hinted at in your comments, that there are "acceptable ways" of making intentional contact with an umpire.

Steven May cleared of contact with an umpire, I bet he knew he shouldn't but did whilst protesting a decision.
Ed Curnow pushes away an umpire explaining a decision - 1 match
Charlie Curnow pushes away an umpire in trying to get to a melee - fine only
Dustin Martin pushed away an umpire after an extended discussion protesting a decision - fine only
Robbie Gray careless contact with an umpire - fine only
Willie Rioli - gentle tap - fine - no problem with that one.
Tom Hawkins pushes away an umpire after giving away a free kick - 1 week
Lachie Neale - pushes an umpire to get his attention - fine only

SEVEN instances of intentional umpiring contact, for a total of TWO weeks suspension.
6 of the 7 instances showing a lack of respect for protecting umpires.

To ban Greene for a finals series, is so completely out of whack. For something that the umpire did not feel was a reportable offence at the time, indeed didn't raise it even in passing conversation for the rest of the game.

Want to make an example of it? Well certainly have now, agree on that. AFL will make sure its a six-game example and not just three. I really do now look forward to the next time intentional umpire contact happens, and we know it will.

It worked with the Chris Judd Chicken Wing tackle, but that wasn't something we'd seen before so was made clear from the start, which was good to see.

We saw this "AFL making an example" with Greene raising the outstretched boot and copping a charge, despite it being a modus operandi for players like Hawkins and J Riewoldt for years.

I only wish we'd seen the "AFL making an example" when Luke Hodge tried to decapitate Chad Wingard, or when Trent Cotchin took out Dylan Shiel, as two immediate obvious examples that come to mind.

Rant Over. Agree to disagree. Goodnight.

Firstly, it’s good for you to finally bring some incidents that have relevance to the thread. Your last few posts referring to player on player incidents, high contact, etc. have nothing to do with this incident.

This is the problem that you and probably 1% of posters have trouble getting your head around. The actions are not the same.

May was demonstrating the play as it just happened. Same with Martin. Curnow was lightly touching the umpire back as he moved away from the area. Neale draws the umpires attention to his bleeding head as he is moving away. Charlie Curnow actually puts his arm lightly in front of Stevic in a motion to protect him from any potential fallout from players jostling. Hawkins seemed to remonstrate with players around him and pushed Margetts hand away as he came towards the contest and appeared to be instinctual. The Gray one I am unable to recall or access, but I feel this a pointless exercise. All of these players incurred a penalty and these penalties were commensurate to the actions involved. The fact you think that an out of play action of walking deliberately up into the face of an umpire and pushing past them while arguing is an equal action, places you in a minority. Even your wording of those instances is exaggerated and selective to make them appear worse than they were and to attempt to put them on a equal footing with this incident. You don’t need to be an expert in body language or observation to see they are vastly different, but for whatever reason you choose to ignore this.

With similar logic applied, you would likely believe that a Gaff or Hall strike is the same and should be treated the same as all strikes. Unfortunately, that’s not the case, incidents are judged on their merit and for most reasonable people, this incident passes the threshold for what is reasonable to the vast majority of AFL fans.

You apply similar logic when comparing a Toby Greene kick front on to the face of an opponent during a handball receive to a tactic used by many key forwards of pushing your foot/knee/leg into the back of opponents during marking contests.

Given, your inability to decipher any distinguishing characteristics, details or nuances between these incidents, then you are probably correct that it’s time to call it a night. Maybe, tomorrow you wake with a bit of perspective and appreciate the shades of grey that exist. Things are not either one or the other, there are degrees. And those actions which infringe to a high degree are punished more severely.

 

[deanc]

this would suggest otherwise

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2020/02/06/b3e14782-032f-4b72-a184-301a83ac8c27/National-Player-and-Official-Deregistration-Policy-February-2020.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3WqmfX9yBo4Jn0sjys8ksKp5TYgBGvkwH257EXpBJ2Q0LFUS-6cExLViY

Summary of current policy:

Deregistration is automatically applied to any player or official who, since the age of 16, has been suspended for a cumulative total of 16 matches or more in any suburban, country or state league, or in the AFL, except that for the purpose of the cumulative total, suspensions in the AFL count only 75% of their value.

Players may appeal for re-registration, but if successful a further suspension will result in deregistration without the right to a further appeal.

FYI, deregistration was first nationally established in 1992, revised in 2007 and 2019, and is applied uniformly across all levels of football in Australia.

Accordingly, based on the above, Toby Greene would need to accumulate 20 match suspensions at AFL level to be deregistered...

 

[mattpolo8]

Summary of current policy:

Deregistration is automatically applied to any player or official who, since the age of 16, has been suspended for a cumulative total of 16 matches or more in any suburban, country or state league, or in the AFL, except that for the purpose of the cumulative total, suspensions in the AFL count only 75% of their value.
Players may appeal for re-registration, but if successful a further suspension will result in deregistration without the right to a further appeal.

FYI, deregistration was first nationally established in 1992, revised in 2007, and is applied uniformly across all levels of football in Australia.

Accordingly, based on the above, Toby Greene would need to accumulate 20 match suspensions at AFL level to be deregistered...

If AFL get their way, he will sit on 13 or 14. And realistically he's got another 7 years of footy left. Not exactly out of reach that 20 mark.

 

[sherb]

Firstly, it’s good for you to finally bring some incidents that have relevance to the thread. Your last few posts referring to player on player incidents, high contact, etc. have nothing to do with this incident.

This is the problem that you and probably 1% of posters have trouble getting your head around. The actions are not the same.

May was demonstrating the play as it just happened. Same with Martin. Curnow was lightly touching the umpire back as he moved away from the area. Neale draws the umpires attention to his bleeding head as he is moving away. Charlie Curnow actually puts his arm lightly in front of Stevic in a motion to protect him from any potential fallout from players jostling. Hawkins seemed to remonstrate with players around him and pushed Margetts hand away as he came towards the contest and appeared to be instinctual. The Gray one I am unable to recall or access, but I feel this a pointless exercise. All of these players incurred a penalty and these penalties were commensurate to the actions involved. The fact you think that an out of play action of walking deliberately up into the face of an umpire and pushing past them while arguing is an equal action, places you in a minority. Even your wording of those instances is exaggerated and selective to make them appear worse than they were and to attempt to put them on a equal footing with this incident. You don’t need to be an expert in body language or observation to see they are vastly different, but for whatever reason you choose to ignore this.

With similar logic applied, you would likely believe that a Gaff or Hall strike is the same and should be treated the same as all strikes. Unfortunately, that’s not the case, incidents are judged on their merit and for most reasonable people, this incident passes the threshold for what is reasonable to the vast majority of AFL fans.

You apply similar logic when comparing a Toby Greene kick front on to the face of an opponent during a handball receive to a tactic used by many key forwards of pushing your foot/knee/leg into the back of opponents during marking contests.

Given, your inability to decipher any distinguishing characteristics, details or nuances between these incidents, then you are probably correct that it’s time to call it a night. Maybe, tomorrow you wake with a bit of perspective and appreciate the shades of grey that exist. Things are not either one or the other, there are degrees. And those actions which infringe to a high degree are punished more severely.

Please post more often.

 

[Madas]

If AFL get their way, he will sit on 13 or 14. And realistically he's got another 7 years of footy left. Not exactly out of reach that 20 mark.

Has anyone looked at his Pre-AFL suspension stats .?
Surely would be some in there ?
Sounds like the dick has been unhinged forever.

 

[Young Gun #6]

 

[psychobrown]

Sayonara, karate kid

 

[OnlyPowerForever]

Firstly, it’s good for you to finally bring some incidents that have relevance to the thread. Your last few posts referring to player on player incidents, high contact, etc. have nothing to do with this incident.

This is the problem that you and probably 1% of posters have trouble getting your head around. The actions are not the same.

May was demonstrating the play as it just happened. Same with Martin. Curnow was lightly touching the umpire back as he moved away from the area. Neale draws the umpires attention to his bleeding head as he is moving away. Charlie Curnow actually puts his arm lightly in front of Stevic in a motion to protect him from any potential fallout from players jostling. Hawkins seemed to remonstrate with players around him and pushed Margetts hand away as he came towards the contest and appeared to be instinctual. The Gray one I am unable to recall or access, but I feel this a pointless exercise. All of these players incurred a penalty and these penalties were commensurate to the actions involved. The fact you think that an out of play action of walking deliberately up into the face of an umpire and pushing past them while arguing is an equal action, places you in a minority. Even your wording of those instances is exaggerated and selective to make them appear worse than they were and to attempt to put them on a equal footing with this incident. You don’t need to be an expert in body language or observation to see they are vastly different, but for whatever reason you choose to ignore this.

With similar logic applied, you would likely believe that a Gaff or Hall strike is the same and should be treated the same as all strikes. Unfortunately, that’s not the case, incidents are judged on their merit and for most reasonable people, this incident passes the threshold for what is reasonable to the vast majority of AFL fans.

You apply similar logic when comparing a Toby Greene kick front on to the face of an opponent during a handball receive to a tactic used by many key forwards of pushing your foot/knee/leg into the back of opponents during marking contests.

Given, your inability to decipher any distinguishing characteristics, details or nuances between these incidents, then you are probably correct that it’s time to call it a night. Maybe, tomorrow you wake with a bit of perspective and appreciate the shades of grey that exist. Things are not either one or the other, there are degrees. And those actions which infringe to a high degree are punished more severely.

As mentioned, agree to disagree.

 

[OnlyPowerForever]

You missed the one when Greene made contact with the umpire earlier this year.
It's as though all umpire contact is not equal.

Look at the words "intentional contact".

 

[HairyO]

Firstly, it’s good for you to finally bring some incidents that have relevance to the thread. Your last few posts referring to player on player incidents, high contact, etc. have nothing to do with this incident.

This is the problem that you and probably 1% of posters have trouble getting your head around. The actions are not the same.

May was demonstrating the play as it just happened. Same with Martin. Curnow was lightly touching the umpire back as he moved away from the area. Neale draws the umpires attention to his bleeding head as he is moving away. Charlie Curnow actually puts his arm lightly in front of Stevic in a motion to protect him from any potential fallout from players jostling. Hawkins seemed to remonstrate with players around him and pushed Margetts hand away as he came towards the contest and appeared to be instinctual. The Gray one I am unable to recall or access, but I feel this a pointless exercise. All of these players incurred a penalty and these penalties were commensurate to the actions involved. The fact you think that an out of play action of walking deliberately up into the face of an umpire and pushing past them while arguing is an equal action, places you in a minority. Even your wording of those instances is exaggerated and selective to make them appear worse than they were and to attempt to put them on a equal footing with this incident. You don’t need to be an expert in body language or observation to see they are vastly different, but for whatever reason you choose to ignore this.

With similar logic applied, you would likely believe that a Gaff or Hall strike is the same and should be treated the same as all strikes. Unfortunately, that’s not the case, incidents are judged on their merit and for most reasonable people, this incident passes the threshold for what is reasonable to the vast majority of AFL fans.

You apply similar logic when comparing a Toby Greene kick front on to the face of an opponent during a handball receive to a tactic used by many key forwards of pushing your foot/knee/leg into the back of opponents during marking contests.

Given, your inability to decipher any distinguishing characteristics, details or nuances between these incidents, then you are probably correct that it’s time to call it a night. Maybe, tomorrow you wake with a bit of perspective and appreciate the shades of grey that exist. Things are not either one or the other, there are degrees. And those actions which infringe to a high degree are punished more severely.

So Greene should have grabbed the umpire and it would have only been a fine.

But brushing passed him so lightly the umpire didnt have an issue with it must be 3 or even 6 weeks.

While potentially CTE causing concussions from dangerous tackles are ignored.

Clearly the AFL have their priorities right.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Whilst I think Greene got off light I do not like the idea that the AFL can appeal. The AFL should remain as impartial as possible.

 

[sherb]

So Greene should have grabbed the umpire and it would have only been a fine.

But brushing passed him so lightly the umpire didnt have an issue with it must be 3 or even 6 weeks.

While potentially CTE causing concussions from dangerous tackles are ignored.

Clearly the AFL have their priorities right.

You're big on "look over there at something else" aren't you?

You are taught from a young age as a footballer that you don't make contact with an umpire. You just don't do it.

The fact that you think the AFL is not doing enough regarding CTE doesn't change that.

 

[benji21]

Sure they are different circumstances, but if toby greene

4

Toby Greene

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.2

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.0

2star

G

2.3

5star

D

26.6

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

14.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.6

5star

G

0.0

1star

is six weeks as the AFL is asking then may and martin are 2 weeks. The talk around all this is that there is no excuses touching an umpire. If they are that serious about it all the time its 1 week minimum then higher depending on severity and how intentional it is.
Same with the head, if you hit someones head in a non football act (basically not spoiling the ball) one week then adjust on severity.
It gets frustrating seeing the inconsistencies.

 

[hcd199]

I think three weeks is just about the absolute minimum 'reasonable' penalty here, but the way it played out is concerning. Glancing over some of the details from today's hearing, it seems clear that there's a lot that's a bit compromised here - Stevic's testimony seemed weirdly equivocal (my impression was almost that he wasn't too bothered personally but felt he had to take something of a stand for the sake of the profession, or perhaps it was suggested to him that he ought to do so), the fact that GWS argued for a massive fine is further evidence of the farce that 'financial penalties' have always been, and ultimately, when one side sets the benchmark at six weeks and the other at none, and the tribunal hands down three, they should know full well that it looks like a mongrel compromise rather than a considered balancing of factors (doubly so when the argument from one side is so dubious - you really want to contend that Greene didn't realise what he'd done or was doing, whilst engaged directly in argument with the specific person he went on to not avoid making contact with?!).

So I'm broadly okay with the end result, if not the process - presumably, it's either three weeks, or longer following an AFL appeal, and both of those seem reasonable enough to me. It's probably a vain hope, but perhaps this whole process will lead to us actually starting to take these off-the-ball/non-football acts more seriously - it's a gallingly obvious misapplication of the punishment process to see players miss matches (or having to fight to get off at the tribunal) for little more than going hard at the ball, whilst others are merely 'fined' for eye-gouging, stomach punches, etc.

 

[HairyO]

You're big on "look over there at something else" aren't you?

You are taught from a young age as a footballer that you don't make contact with an umpire. You just don't do it.

The fact that you think the AFL is not doing enough regarding CTE doesn't change that.

They have allowed a bunch of intentional contact pass with minor punishment over the last few years.

So they wait until finals to decide to do something?

The AFLPA should step in if they had any balls. Which sadly they dont.