Injury Tom Boyd

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Now we recruited Trengrove.We have the luxury
to give Boyd a rocket.He has to be better than Roughead and Trengrove .Or he play's 2s.Pure and simple .Mabye he can have time to finally learn the forward craft.And hold marks.He has shown in finals he can.So it's up to him.No excuses.And myself l have always been a fan.So l have great confidence in Boyd.Pressure for spots is a great luxury.Go dogs 2018
 
The age old 'if he retired today would he be worth it...' thing. He was a premiership hero, yes. Did we expect more than 2 memorable games from him up to this point of his contract? Probably. But this was always supposed to be a long term investment, and imo that's how we should be approaching the situation, even with the premiership. But he's still just 23.

Anyway, Roughie, Trengove and Schache all have Boyd beaten in marks per game, both for their careers and last season alone. Schache played 1 less game than Boyd last season and finished with 2 more goals and 13 more marks. We know how much Bev values around the ground marking from his bigs, and we know, historically, how much Boyd can struggle with that.

I think it could, at this point, be a matter of what Boyd offers to the team that can't be covered by any of those guys. Trengove can play one more position than Tom can, and Roughie is far better at negating opposition rucks and being an around the ground marking presence. Schache is probably the guy Tom will have to beat out, and despite last season's stats he may well, because Schache is an even younger KPF who is probably going to be annoyingly inconsistent...

This isn't even considering Redpath, who has Boyd well covered in marks and goals (yet obviously far inferior as a ruck). But overall, if the plan is to have Trengove/Roughead as the ruck duo, and if Schache plays well, and considering Red is part of the leadership group...It becomes very, very hard to find a place for Boyd until he proves that he can do something substantially better than the other bigs can. If Schache doesn't play much, then it becomes a lot easier to find a place for Boyd, although Red is still a factor there.

Lastly though...It's Bevo and the preseason we're talking about. Biggs is named in the forward line. We don't give up anything to the media. Let's just see how this unfolds through the first 2-3 home and away games.
 
We have to be the worst club in my time following footy, at developing key forwards.

Beasley came ready made, and grant kicked 50 as a 17 year old. We haven’t been able to draft and develop at all. Shithouse.

Boyd and English will be a cracking ruck duo in time tho.
 

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This is somewhat related to Boyd and somewhat not but What I don’t ****ing get is why Trengove is playing in the ruck when on face value he was brought in to address a major problem, stopping genuine 200cm forwards. None of Adams, Cordy, nor Naughton are the right size/experience to stop genuine big forwards. Within the first 3 weeks we are playing Patton/ Lobb, Kennedy, Daniher. I think Kennedy is containable because he is more of a lead up athletic type rather than the 200cm type but the other 3 present a genuine concern in terms of height and size. Push Trengove back opening a ruck spot for Boyd.

FWIW and it’s just a hunch (no inside info at all) but I presume this is a discipline thing rather than a fitness or best 22 thing. Just doesn’t seem right.
 
Bonts2Boyd said:
Boyd's ahead of English and Schache, there just getting games in to those two while they can. I'm tipping Bevo and the other coaches are at the stage where they've told Boyd he needs to be playing at a certain level. A level we've seen in the GF, a level that he can play but isn't playing it near regularly enough otherwise he plays twos. It is getting close to the point where he needs to pull his finger out and have a crack or career over. So if its pressure and higher expectations from within the club, meaning he plays twos unless his form is outstanding, then good on them.
This goes one of two ways. His career fizzles out and he becomes a wasted talent or he knuckles down, has a crack and becomes the player he should be.
I'm still confident of the latter but not as confident as I've been in the past. .
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Yeah great, fair post.
 
fronkalicious said:
We have to be the worst club in my time following footy, at developing key forwards.

Beasley came ready made, and grant kicked 50 as a 17 year old. We haven’t been able to draft and develop at all. Shithouse.

Boyd and English will be a cracking ruck duo in time tho.
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You’re right. But I blame the club for not getting a decent forward mentor.
 
What practice games does Footscray still have left? He’d need at least one to be in contention for round 1
 
We really are a bunch of assholes when it comes to this guy. He’s 22. His last run of games was at 21.

Sure, he hasn’t yet been the key forward we thought we were getting, but the bloke has had a coach that dropped him for a large chunk of his first season with us (admitted it was a mistake later) and has been trying to turn him into a ruckman for two years. Then he missed half of last season with clinical depression.

Then the club signs Cloke to take game time away from him. Then signs a KPD that we turn into a ruck/fwd to take game time away from him. And trades in another high profile young player that plays exactly the same position.

If he’s going to be a ruckman, so be it, but he’s then had to split time in that role with Jordan Roughead, unlike say Brodie Grundy who has spent 80-90% of the game there since his first season.

As a ruckman, I’d take him over plenty of others. Matthew Kreuzer, who also went #1 and has been on some fat contracts for example. Compare their numbers. Compare him to Goldstein at 21/22. As a ruckman, he actually has potential to be really good.

Over his last 6 games in 2017:

14 disposals
0.75 goals
2.5 marks
26 hitouts
3 clearances
3 tackles

If any young ruck/forward did that over 20 games, we would be stoked. It’s basically what Nankervis did last year for Richmond, and he was considere a difference-making revelation for the premiership team.

I’m hoping he gets given a really good crack at a position this year, whatever it is.
 
Dogs Rule said:
Short memories. Less than 18 months ago, the bloke wins us a Grand Final and is arguably BOG.

A year later he admits he's struggling with depression and now doesn't get selected for two practice matches and suddenly some of us are ready to end his career.

I seriously give up...

Get a ******* grip.

Unreal.
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Amen. Get a grip peeps. He is also no longer on a million dollars for this season. Fairly certain it’s reduced now as it was front ended.
 
Tom has got that sexy (Moby Dick) look going on at the
moment which is fantastic yet very rugged and macho.
As a big man though you have to take more than three
contested marks in an eleven game season and kick
more than seven goals, but life is bigger than football
and i wish him well in life.
 

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Cadillac said:
Name me one area of his game that he’s improved on since joining the club? Yes. It was amazing what he did in the Grand Final. But besides that, when has he ever looked like an AFL standard footballer? It’s going to be bloody hard for us to retain some very good players when we are paying him and have Bont coming out of contract very soon. This is just my opinion. You don’t have to agree with what I’ve said.
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his ruck work and conditioning around the ground are his main improvements
 
You guys know that Tom Boyd came off a shoulder work in the off season and has had reduced game loads so he can be clean for the entire season yeah?
 
VitalDread said:
You guys know that Tom Boyd came off a shoulder work in the off season and has had reduced game loads so he can be clean for the entire season yeah?
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Don't let facts get in the way of good melts Vital!!!

The season is also 22 rounds plus finals (well it should be for us), so if Boyd is still in the VFL team by round 8, yep should be concerned, but see how he goes in the next 2 VFL pre season games to see how far away he is from best 22.

Also, now the money is irrelevant. He is a ruck/forward and particularly his ruck work is improving with his forward craft showing slight improvement to supplement this
 
ringa5 said:
Now we recruited Trengrove.We have the luxury
to give Boyd a rocket.He has to be better than Roughead and Trengrove .Or he play's 2s.Pure and simple .Mabye he can have time to finally learn the forward craft.And hold marks.He has shown in finals he can.So it's up to him.No excuses.And myself l have always been a fan.So l have great confidence in Boyd.Pressure for spots is a great luxury.Go dogs 2018
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Agree, I think more depth and competition for the positions Tom is competing for will only assist his development. The world no longer rests solely on his shoulders. In a strange way, more competition actually takes some pressure off Tom.
 
NOTSUREIF.jpg
 
Boyd is actually stupidly good in the ruck for his age. His stats basically align with Brodie Grundy at a similar age, yet he splits his time forward much more.

Getting Trengove to play him as ruck is a bit of a weird move, but if Boyd were to play as a ruck/forward I would give it 2 years until he is looked upon as one of the better in that position in the competition. It's the hardest position on the ground and who is actually good at it? Lynch in Adelaide? Peter Wright?
 
Contador said:
Scrag has gone a bit early but the signs aren't good. If it's another season of little progress, or even worse, a season spent in the VFL, then the trade almost has to be seen as a complete bust and a terrible decision by all involved at the time. It could cost us dearly. Even if it did somehow come off in one crucial game.

It's not Tom's fault though. And he deserves a bit more time.
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Yeah not sure I agree the Boyd trade will ever be viewed as a bust. Boyd has already paid for himself with one BOG game (IMO) in the GF - arguably we don't win it without him. And that is not mentioning his competitiveness when Rough went down in the GWS prelim. Anything else we get is a bonus IMO.

From a list perspective, I think many of us have moved on from thinking Boyd will be a great KPF any time soon. Assume the club has as well.

The club seems to have planned for life without Boyd with the recruitment of Naughton (who allows the likes of Young, Adams and Wood to be tried fwd), and Trengove (who can play back, fwd and ruck) and Schache (another big KPF in an era where clubs are winning flags with just one big KPF).

Really not overly fussed if Boyd never pulls the jumper on again. Doubt it though, as he is developing into a very solid following type (as opposed to tap) ruck. Obviously hope he plays many more games and smashes it to prove many wrong like he did on GF day - but that will be gravy IMO.
 
Really don't see how playing Trengrove or Roughy at FF is going to help our forward line. You need a leading marking forward up there not slow defensive liabilties who can't kick. Look at how Adelaide and Richmond structure their forward line and you don't see the resting ruck parked in the goal square.
 
Contador said:
Scrag has gone a bit early but the signs aren't good. If it's another season of little progress, or even worse, a season spent in the VFL, then the trade almost has to be seen as a complete bust and a terrible decision by all involved at the time. It could cost us dearly. Even if it did somehow come off in one crucial game.

It's not Tom's fault though. And he deserves a bit more time.
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Its paid off better than the Swans multi million dollar deal for Buddy!
Whilst the stadium holds its breathe it will have always paid off in my eyes!
 
fronkalicious said:
We have to be the worst club in my time following footy, at developing key forwards.

Beasley came ready made, and grant kicked 50 as a 17 year old. We haven’t been able to draft and develop at all. Shithouse.

Boyd and English will be a cracking ruck duo in time tho.
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Your forgetting what we did with Robert Groenewegen!
Came to us as an uncoordinated CHF and left us an uncoordinated Captain of Jumbo Jets!
 
VogonProsthetnic said:
Really don't see how playing Trengrove or Roughy at FF is going to help our forward line. You need a leading marking forward up there not slow defensive liabilties who can't kick. Look at how Adelaide and Richmond structure their forward line and you don't see the resting ruck parked in the goal square.
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Thats partly because in Adelaide's case their ruckman is not particularly mobile.

IMO we wont play them as resting ruckman in the old manor more as mobile talls who move around, think back to the Vs hawaks final where Roughy was floating down taking marks.
 
VogonProsthetnic said:
Really don't see how playing Trengrove or Roughy at FF is going to help our forward line. You need a leading marking forward up there not slow defensive liabilties who can't kick. Look at how Adelaide and Richmond structure their forward line and you don't see the resting ruck parked in the goal square.
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Are Adelaide and Richmond good comparisons though? They have the luxury of at least one proven A-grade KPF each (Walker and Riewoldt).
As in 2016 we have to play with the cards we are dealt... or hope that we have bought a card that will give us a similarly strong hand (Schache).
 
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