Delisted Tom Curren

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ike2112 said:
For almost the entire year, the club named their tagger in the forward line starting lineup. We played almost every game with only a 5-man, often 4-man forward structure.
What tended to happen was that Ray was named on a wing, but played a lot of time spare at the back. Jones/Curren were named in the forward pocket but did tagging duties. The gap left on the wing was used as an outlet by the forwards to be the outlet straight from defence - by Roo, Eli, Schneider. We had no outside run/spread anyway, so it wasn't like we were naming a couple flyers like Breust and Brad Hill to run the ball 70 metres a few times a game.
So in very simplistic terms, we kind of played 7-7-4 rather than 6-6-6.

For what it's worth, in 2015 personally I would like to see Curren play midfield. And Billings play forward but get a couple of 5 minute burst through midfield each game. But I think that in reality Weller has the jump on Curren as being more well-rounded, so if someone's getting let loose it'll be Weller. And I think that whilst Billings has obvious class, he's of most use to us in the half-forward line and it'll let him stay in a positional comfort zone whilst getting to grips with AFL and growing his body. He is somewhat frail looking at times, and I'd hate to see us put him in harm's way when there's no immediate need. He will eventually play midfield plenty for us, but no rush this year.

The other thing to bear in mind is that Lenny spent a decent amount of time resting forward last year. That won't happen this year, so the young brigade will stay on the field more, so more chance of seeing Eli and Wright I think get midfield minutes whilst others take rest.
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Very perceptive Ike and as Saintbill has correctly pointed out we were far too easily defended against by having all our numbers being behind the ball! This resulted in our players being caught in transition "no where land" when the ball was rebounded out by the oppisition defence. Basically when we did press forward our movement was often too slow to pressure the opposition defence.

The defensive mindset was to prevent the blow outs, but even when we were on top through the centre we were far to slow to shift the spare man forward. Hopefully AR will trust our mids to win their share of contests and play at least a 5 man forwrad set up in 2015.
 
saintbill said:
It is too early to be harsh on Richo yet, but I am hoping for a much better structure this year. To pull off a 7-7-4 setup like this you need to be a massive running side and have exceptional decision makers around the contest. Otherwise you end up just bombing it forward every time you win the ball, and that is exactly what the opposition wants you to do.
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I think this explains the emphasis on run-run-and-then-run-some-more in our training this off-season.
 

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Nutsngum said:
Simply being fitter then your opposition got seems to be rather underrated in my opinion. Being that 10% better in the final quarter can be the deciding factor in games.
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My man Tommy Curren :) recently stated that his goal is to build up his tank, so that he can be elite. That is part of the definition he has of what elite is, which means it's probably how the club defines being an elite midfielder. I might also add (at the risk of digressing in a Spencaaa thread), given TC's famous work ethic for training, I would put my money on him developing that tank without any hassle.
 
Persevering Saint said:
My man Tommy Curren :) recently stated that his goal is to build up his tank, so that he can be elite. That is part of the definition he has of what elite is, which means it's probably how the club defines being an elite midfielder. I might also add (at the risk of digressing in a Spencaaa thread), given TC's famous work ethic for training, I would put my money on him developing that tank without any hassle.
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Tom Curren is one of my favourite players due to his work ethic. I dont think he is "naturally" elite but has the work ethic both in training and on the field to get him right up there with the others.
Just watch him play, he isnt the best off the boot or the best tackler (no one else is quite like Lenny) but he is just about at every contest and is just giving it his best all the time.
 
Continuing w the thread derail, I can't see Curren making it unfortunately. Too small, too slow, not good enough kick. Kane Cornes, Stevie Baker & Brad Sewell made a career w limited skill sets, so could happen, but he's against the odds imo.
 
I think it's a bit of a myth that Curren can't kick. In the 5 games he played in 2013 champion data says that his "kick rating was elite and the best of any player at the club". He was also 4th for total metres gained and 2nd for retention rate at the club in that time.

His kicking may have suffered this year due to a groin issue (he had an operation after the season ended) and possibly from fatigue caused by a heavy training load during the year (although that is speculation on my behalf).

I'll be very interested to see what next years prospectus has to say about him.
 
Curren has plenty going for him, and I see time and time again people being fooled that he won't make it just on the basis because he hasn't been flashy, and the cause for that is because he's been doing run with roles. Once we set him free he is more than capable, hopefully gets 15+ games next season to keep getting games into him.
 
12Chill said:
Curren has plenty going for him, and I see time and time again people being fooled that he won't make it just on the basis because he hasn't been flashy, and the cause for that is because he's been doing run with roles. Once we set him free he is more than capable, hopefully gets 15+ games next season to keep getting games into him.
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Im not saying he cant make it but out of interest do we think we can play all of Curren Armo Weller Dunstan Ross in the same 22 together?
 
sonnywalters said:
Im not saying he cant make it but out of interest do we think we can play all of Curren Armo Weller Dunstan Ross in the same 22 together?
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Yes, if one plays in the forward line and another tags. Armo may well spend more time at HFF in his older years. Personally I don't think Ross is gonna make it anyway. And Curren will be replaced by someone of a higher level in the next year or two (but stay on the list).
 
A team can't carry all five imo. Too slow, too similar. Curren is the 'worst' of the bunch. Least likely to make it. Seems like a good person & a young leader so shame, but Ross & Dunstan good leaders & people from reports.

Happy to be proven wrong.
 
Jesus, I can run 2k in under 8 minutes and I haven't played sport seriously in 3 years.

As for the Curren, Geary, Ross etc debate... I think Curren is the ideal extra mid. The 23rd man. Ideally you have better than him, but you know exactly what you get from him. Same for Geary - when we get really good again, he might not be best 22, but I'll be really happy he's at our club than somewhere else.
I don't have the same view of Ross. He's either gonna be one of our best 3 inside mids, or he's not gonna play any more than he does now, in which case he'd get released in a couple years.
 

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ike2112 said:
For almost the entire year, the club named their tagger in the forward line starting lineup. We played almost every game with only a 5-man, often 4-man forward structure.
What tended to happen was that Ray was named on a wing, but played a lot of time spare at the back. Jones/Curren were named in the forward pocket but did tagging duties. The gap left on the wing was used as an outlet by the forwards to be the outlet straight from defence - by Roo, Eli, Schneider. We had no outside run/spread anyway, so it wasn't like we were naming a couple flyers like Breust and Brad Hill to run the ball 70 metres a few times a game.
So in very simplistic terms, we kind of played 7-7-4 rather than 6-6-6.

For what it's worth, in 2015 personally I would like to see Curren play midfield. And Billings play forward but get a couple of 5 minute burst through midfield each game. But I think that in reality Weller has the jump on Curren as being more well-rounded, so if someone's getting let loose it'll be Weller. And I think that whilst Billings has obvious class, he's of most use to us in the half-forward line and it'll let him stay in a positional comfort zone whilst getting to grips with AFL and growing his body. He is somewhat frail looking at times, and I'd hate to see us put him in harm's way when there's no immediate need. He will eventually play midfield plenty for us, but no rush this year.

The other thing to bear in mind is that Lenny spent a decent amount of time resting forward last year. That won't happen this year, so the young brigade will stay on the field more, so more chance of seeing Eli and Wright I think get midfield minutes whilst others take rest.
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Almost a year? Its been forever, probably since we had Hamil and Gehrig. Yes we tried Ryan Gamble and Charlie Gardiner but nah.
Kosi, Riewoldt, Milne, Schneider, McQualter ( defensive ).
If Milne or Schneider didn't play we played and extra forward short.
 
Someone in our club needs to start winning contested ball.
Lenny was in double figures ( contested possessions ) for the first ten games last season.
Armo ten of fifteen games.
Curren, twice in 2 years
Ross, 4 times ( 2 real seasons ).
Saunders 3 times
Weller , Never
Geary, once a season at best
Steven , had a run of 10 in a row during 2013.
Ray , 3 times a season, if its a good one.
Dunstan, twice ( but one was 15 and it was his first season ).


By contrast Garry Ablett, nearly always gets more than 15 contested possessions.
Jobe Watson nearly always gets more than 10 ( often up around 20 during his * Brownlow year).

2 players who get 5 contested possessions each are not at good as one with 10.
 
Nutsngum said:
Tom Curren is one of my favourite players due to his work ethic. I dont think he is "naturally" elite but has the work ethic both in training and on the field to get him right up there with the others.
Just watch him play, he isnt the best off the boot or the best tackler (no one else is quite like Lenny) but he is just about at every contest and is just giving it his best all the time.
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This is why I think he'll make it. He'll get there on work ethic alone. The ideal player you want to take into a GF to complement your elite players.
 
SaintLex said:
This is why I think he'll make it. He'll get there on work ethic alone. The ideal player you want to take into a GF to complement your elite players.
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I agree. He reminds me a bit of armo. Seems like he'll do anything to get the ball.
will play his best footy in the forward line with saad IMO. Templeton will play higher up the ground with Minch.. all 4 of them have shown enough to suggest they can be pretty good players i think.
 
I see Curren closer to Jake King than Armo. Fit as a fiddle and tries hard but just not quite good enough (Jake still managed a decent & respectable AFL career - 107 games). The reason we played 7 7 4 was because our midfield is inferior to most sides and just too slow . This is unlikely to change until we get real improvement from the likes of Acres, Jack Steven (needs to be injury free) and young McKenzie. Ross Weller Armo Dunstan Curren are all good solid players but this is the AFL. Other sides mid-fielders are dynamic. Dunstan and Armo the stand-outs of that group.

We need another high quality quick mid at years end to add to this group.
 
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Would take Curren over Ross on exposed form.

Has dominated the VFL just as much but also showed something at AFL level. Is also a fantastic tagger against those outside options. Also showed the ability to play as a small forward in games as well.

Not writing of Seb at all but if only one can play then TC should get the nod at this stage.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
I'm not sure where all the negativity is coming from.
Curren doesn't have elite pace, but I don't think he's slow.
He seems to have very good footy instincts ( something that seems to be hard to find ), and when we drafted him had a name for being a good kick on the run.
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I'm one that doesn't quite see where Curren's standout qualities are and he may ultimately need those to overcome being a touch undersized. But I do rate character - and I love the fact we seem to have targeted this highly - so I'm still hopeful for him. Certainly will be barracking for him.

I still think Seb will gradually and slowly rise and become quality. But that's not based on performances. I'd have Seb over Tom. But there are plenty of spots in the long term!
 
Im really hoping curren gets let off the tagging duties. Hopefully it was just a apprenteship, I think he could definitely pole in our top 10 bnf if he plays more of an attacking mid.
 
Here's what the 2015 Champion Data Prospectus had to say about Curren:

Kept Heppell, Treloar, Harley Bennell and Shuey to under 20 disposals in at least 90 min of game time.

Played as a half-forward from round 17 and in that time he ranked 1st at he the club for forward 50 pressure and forward 50 groundball-gets and 2nd for scoreboard impact and disposals inside 50.
 
Rahul said:
Curren fits right in at this level, terrific so far in q1.
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I can't help but think he is one guy who gets a rough deal - he plays completely different roles in the VFL compared to AFL.

Hey Tommy, go play midfield for Sandy.
Well done on your 30 posessions in VFL Tommy, go play defensive forward and basically chase shadows for an hour.
 
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