Recommitted Tom De Koning [Signed until 2025]

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I don't think you've thought this through entirely.

Perhaps, just perhaps, you can pay players less across the board and have a sliding cap that accommodates everyone in a more egalitarian way - rather than overpaying some players and underpaying others, to balance out your cap.

I know this concept is foreign to your club, but it seems to have worked well for us for a decade and half and counting.

But keep throwing out arguments about 'waterfronts pubs and property'...when you're actually a club who was notorious for that kind of behaviour.

People in glass houses and all that

this only makes sense if you have an above average list.
If Carlton had the exact same list as we do now and had zero players paid in the top 100 then we would still have to be overpaying some players.

 

[My Tilly]

If you reckon he's not that good, why don't you just go and offer Jonny Ceglar another 5 years...

Ceglar's struggling to get out of bed these days.

If bringing in Tom helps his younger brother to enjoy footy more, it's a win win.
Certainly can't see the brains trust matching offers put forth by Sydney (rumoured).

 

[PrisonBars4life]

So you think the player who is now 24yo that has failed to deliver anything and is playing the same position has more upside than the 24yo who has been moved to a different position and is showing high quality footy?? Very interesting view

No, I view more highly a guy who is 23 (almost 24), who has played decent-slightly below average football for 2.5 years, who has an extra year left of development in him physically as being a better prospect.

Ratugolea was an athlete that couldn't play football until 11 games ago. His floor was MUCH lower than TDK. Teams wouldn't have even had tape on him as a defender until recently. It's the same bounce a new highly rated drafted pick gets, or a caretaker coach. It takes clubs a while to figure something 'new' out. As I said I am very distrustful of someone who wasn't any good and then suddenly becomes much better. Occasionally, players just figure it out later in their careers ala Scott Thomson, Jay Schulz, Karl Amon. For many, they just had their best year or 2 as a 24/25 year old in their prime. Tim Kelly being the obvious example. He's a decent player, WC just overpaid massively thinking he would bottom out as being as good as that first year (and possibly get better).

The more ridiculous thing about Ratugolea is we are not talking about a season but half a season. If he only gets better and smashes it for the rest of the season that is very different than if he fades out a bit (due to the hammy and as Geelong potentially run out of steam as a team). Some of the discussion around Ratugolea being worth a first rounder (midway through his first AFL standard season) from Geelong supporters is astonishingly stupid. Personally I can see clubs offering more money/picks for TDK than Ratugolea, albeit I still seem them both as 'speculative' picks, but in positions that are difficult to recruit for (hence paying a decent 2nd rounder for players that 'might' be AFL standard for the rest of their careers).

 

[geelong_crazy26]

No, I view more highly a guy who is 23 (almost 24), who has played decent-slightly below average football for 2.5 years, who has an extra year left of development in him physically as being a better prospect.

Ratugolea was an athlete that couldn't play football until 11 games ago. His floor was MUCH lower than TDK. Teams wouldn't have even had tape on him as a defender until recently. It's the same bounce a new highly rated drafted pick gets, or a caretaker coach. It takes clubs a while to figure something 'new' out. As I said I am very distrustful of someone who wasn't any good and then suddenly becomes much better. Occasionally, players just figure it out later in their careers ala Scott Thomson, Jay Schulz, Karl Amon. For many, they just had their best year or 2 as a 24/25 year old in their prime. Tim Kelly being the obvious example. He's a decent player, WC just overpaid massively thinking he would bottom out as being as good as that first year (and possibly get better).

The more ridiculous thing about Ratugolea is we are not talking about a season but half a season. If he only gets better and smashes it for the rest of the season that is very different than if he fades out a bit (due to the hammy and as Geelong potentially run out of steam as a team). Some of the discussion around Ratugolea being worth a first rounder (midway through his first AFL standard season) from Geelong supporters is astonishingly stupid. Personally I can see clubs offering more money/picks for TDK than Ratugolea, albeit I still seem them both as 'speculative' picks, but in positions that are difficult to recruit for (hence paying a decent 2nd rounder for players that 'might' be AFL standard for the rest of their careers).

The ruckman who averages 10 disposals a game over 50 games is a slightly below average footy player but the CHF who averages 8 disposals a game after 70 games is an athlete who can’t play footy apparently?? There is essentially statistically absolutely nothing between. You have some shocking appraisals going on.

IMO they are both athletes who have shown little on the footy field, except esava has shown to be an elite interceptor the first half of this year and projecting to be a good key defender while Tom dekoning has regressed to the point of being a VFL ruck and borderline afl player.

Let me put it this way… esava has taken his game this year to a level Tom dekoning has never reached. Recent form and trajectory are everything when determining two young key position players values. There is no care or relevancy to “runs on the board” because they both have none. You are looking for signs of improvement and upwards projections. Which only rstugolea has shown so far this year.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

The ruckman who averages 10 disposals a game over 50 games is a slightly below average footy player but the CHF who averages 8 disposals a game after 70 games is an athlete who can’t play footy apparently?? There is essentially statistically absolutely nothing between. You have some shocking appraisals going on.

IMO they are both athletes who have shown little on the footy field, except esava has shown to be an elite interceptor the first half of this year and projecting to be a good key defender while Tom dekoning has regressed to the point of being a VFL ruck and borderline afl player.

Fortunately for you, Ratugolea likely stays and we'll never know who is valued more highly.

 

[Warhorse]

Really hope Sydney take him. Very ordinary player who has a long way to go before they are even serviceable.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

No, I view more highly a guy who is 23 (almost 24), who has played decent-slightly below average football for 2.5 years, who has an extra year left of development in him physically as being a better prospect.

Ratugolea was an athlete that couldn't play football until 11 games ago. His floor was MUCH lower than TDK. Teams wouldn't have even had tape on him as a defender until recently. It's the same bounce a new highly rated drafted pick gets, or a caretaker coach. It takes clubs a while to figure something 'new' out. As I said I am very distrustful of someone who wasn't any good and then suddenly becomes much better. Occasionally, players just figure it out later in their careers ala Scott Thomson, Jay Schulz, Karl Amon. For many, they just had their best year or 2 as a 24/25 year old in their prime. Tim Kelly being the obvious example. He's a decent player, WC just overpaid massively thinking he would bottom out as being as good as that first year (and possibly get better).

The more ridiculous thing about Ratugolea is we are not talking about a season but half a season. If he only gets better and smashes it for the rest of the season that is very different than if he fades out a bit (due to the hammy and as Geelong potentially run out of steam as a team). Some of the discussion around Ratugolea being worth a first rounder (midway through his first AFL standard season) from Geelong supporters is astonishingly stupid. Personally I can see clubs offering more money/picks for TDK than Ratugolea, albeit I still seem them both as 'speculative' picks, but in positions that are difficult to recruit for (hence paying a decent 2nd rounder for players that 'might' be AFL standard for the rest of their careers).

You say it's all new role bounce that is pushing his value up but your club was willing to part with a second round pick for him as a defender based largely on vfl performance.

Your Tim Kelly example actually shows why he actually has a high floor a a defender. TK was great in a good team where he was supported by players like Dangerfield, Selwood, midfield bursts from Ablett.

Sav meanwhile was a stand out performer in a defence under siege. He won't ever be worse than that and could be substantially better.

TDK on the other has flashes of brilliance but may never put it together. So I would argue that TDKs floor is being delisted in 3 years

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Really hope Sydney take him. Very ordinary player who has a long way to go before they are even serviceable.

But his brother is a good player therefore he will be too. Just like Ben Guthrie

 

[pupstar]

No, I view more highly a guy who is 23 (almost 24), who has played decent-slightly below average football for 2.5 years, who has an extra year left of development in him physically as being a better prospect.

Ratugolea was an athlete that couldn't play football until 11 games ago. His floor was MUCH lower than TDK. Teams wouldn't have even had tape on him as a defender until recently. It's the same bounce a new highly rated drafted pick gets, or a caretaker coach. It takes clubs a while to figure something 'new' out. As I said I am very distrustful of someone who wasn't any good and then suddenly becomes much better. Occasionally, players just figure it out later in their careers ala Scott Thomson, Jay Schulz, Karl Amon. For many, they just had their best year or 2 as a 24/25 year old in their prime. Tim Kelly being the obvious example. He's a decent player, WC just overpaid massively thinking he would bottom out as being as good as that first year (and possibly get better).

The more ridiculous thing about Ratugolea is we are not talking about a season but half a season. If he only gets better and smashes it for the rest of the season that is very different than if he fades out a bit (due to the hammy and as Geelong potentially run out of steam as a team). Some of the discussion around Ratugolea being worth a first rounder (midway through his first AFL standard season) from Geelong supporters is astonishingly stupid. Personally I can see clubs offering more money/picks for TDK than Ratugolea, albeit I still seem them both as 'speculative' picks, but in positions that are difficult to recruit for (hence paying a decent 2nd rounder for players that 'might' be AFL standard for the rest of their careers).

WC certainly over paid for him Kelly but he has been great for WC. Maybe you have not watched to may WC games.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

And why on earth would Carlton accept an F2 if the media reports are true that other teams are willing to stump up a first rounder and long term contracts?

Could blow out to about pick 45 with the amount of NGA and F/S prospects in next years draft

Because it's not up to you.

This is hilarious, and every club board has supporters who think like this because they don't understand how it all actually works.

IF TDK chooses to go to Geelong...that's it. What Sydney, St Kilda etc 'could' offer becomes irrelevant.

Carlton will demand a first, Geelong will offer a 3rd...and after days of posturing we'll meet somewhere in the middle at pick 25ish. It'll be the Ollie Henry trade all over again.

It's not the NBA, clubs don't get to just trade players wherever they wish for the best deal possible. Our PA doesn't allow it, and it's why our players don't have 'no trade' clauses in their contracts like their NBA counterparts.

If the AFL worked as you suggested, then we'd just be sending Ratugolea to North because that's where we'd get the best deal....it's never been that way here, and until the CBA changes it'll stay that way.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Because it's not up to you.

This is hilarious, and every club board has supporters who think like this because they don't understand how it all actually works.

IF TDK chooses to go to Geelong...that's it. What Sydney, St Kilda etc 'could' offer becomes irrelevant.

Carlton will demand a first, Geelong will offer a 3rd...and after days of posturing we'll meet somewhere in the middle at pick 25ish. It'll be the Ollie Henry trade all over again.

It's not the NBA, clubs don't get to just trade players wherever they wish for the best deal possible. Our PA doesn't allow it, and it's why our players don't have 'no trade' clauses in their contracts like their NBA counterparts.

If the AFL worked as you suggested, then we'd just be sending Ratugolea to North because that's where we'd get the best deal....it's never been that way here, and until the CBA changes it'll stay that way.

Ollie Henry was an entirely different scenario. Already explained it a dozen times.

Geelong have pick 10 and 82 atm so any threat of the National draft is out the window
You've got teams below you who have shown interest in his TDK. Sydney, Carlton, every chance Essendon finish below you too... So PSD out the window.

TDK's clearly not somebody who's leaving due to disdain towards our club, Henry on the other hand was a petulant brat who got angry that he was dropped before the finals and forced his way out the door. Said to everyone its Geelong or nowhere and he's not having it any other way, reports that he was even prepared to sit out a year to get to Geelong.

TDK on the other hand, Carlton fan all his life, always spoken glowingly about the club and the boys but leaving for greener pastures where he can get paid more and/or be given more opportunities to play his best position.

So when it comes down to all your posturing, well you've got absolutely 0 leverage in this situation compared to with Henry and TDK doesn't come across as a type to threaten to sit out a year if he can't go 1 hour down the highway to be near his mum.

Carlton will be dictating terms more than Geelong on this one.

If Geelong isn't prepared to stump up for a player we, they and half a dozen other clubs clearly rate then there won't be a deal and he'll either have to re-sign with Carlton or choose somewhere else.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Ollie Henry was an entirely different scenario. Already explained it a dozen times.

Geelong have pick 10 and 82 atm so any threat of the National draft is out the window
You've got teams below you who have shown interest in his TDK. Sydney, Carlton, every chance Essendon finish below you too... So PSD out the window.

TDK's clearly not somebody who's leaving due to disdain towards our club, Henry on the other hand was a petulant brat who got angry that he was dropped before the finals and forced his way out the door. Said to everyone its Geelong or nowhere and he's not having it any other way, reports that he was even prepared to sit out a year to get to Geelong.

TDK on the other hand, Carlton fan all his life, always spoken glowingly about the club and the boys but leaving for greener pastures where he can get paid more and/or be given more opportunities to play his best position.

So when it comes down to all your posturing, well you've got absolutely 0 leverage in this situation compared to with Henry and TDK doesn't come across as a type to threaten to sit out a year if he can't go 1 hour down the highway to be near his mum.

Carlton will be dictating terms more than Geelong on this one.

If Geelong isn't prepared to stump up for a player we, they and half a dozen other clubs clearly rate then there won't be a deal and he'll either have to re-sign with Carlton or choose somewhere else.

Instead of giving me an essay, just name one player who requested a trade, and was then forced to go to a club he didn't want to go to. That's my whole point.

I'll see myself out.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Instead of giving me an essay, just name one player who requested a trade, and was then forced to go to a club he didn't want to go to. That's my whole point.

I'll see myself out.

Thats the whole point... From all reports TDK is weighing up multiple offers who are all in consideration. If its clear Geelong won't pony up he'll just go somewhere else or stay at Carlton even if his first preference is Geelong or Sydney.

Henry in contrast basically threatened to quit the AFL if he couldn't go home to his mum...

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Thats the whole point... From all reports TDK is weighing up multiple offers who are all in consideration. If its clear Geelong won't pony up he'll just go somewhere else or stay at Carlton even if his first preference is Geelong or Sydney.

Henry in contrast basically threatened to quit the AFL if he couldn't go home to his mum...

It's the start of July, of course he's "weighing up multiple offers"....I'm talking about when he requests a trade.

Tanner Bruhn was "weighing up multiple offers" too...so was Jack Bowes, Zach Touhy, Gary Rohan, Jeremy Cameron, Patrick Dangerfield...basically any player who's ever been traded.

The point is once a player is OOC and requests a trade they don't go back, nor do they suddenly go "Oh well, Sydney works too".

You're pinning your hopes on TDK doing something that no player has ever done, that's why this is so amusing.

And FWIW, at this point last year Ollie Henry was "weighing up all offers" too. Hawthorn and North were coming hard.

It's hilarious that mouth breathers such as yourself can't get your heads around this.

Just educate yourself, it's not that hard.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

It's the start of July, of course he's "weighing up multiple offers"....I'm talking about when he requests a trade.

Tanner Bruhn was "weighing up multiple offers" too...so was Jack Bowes, Zach Touhy, Gary Rohan, Jeremy Cameron, Patrick Dangerfield...basically any player who's ever been traded.

The point is once a player is OOC and requests a trade they don't go back, nor do they suddenly go "Oh well, Sydney works too".

You're pinning your hopes on TDK doing something that no player has ever done, that's why this is so amusing.

And FWIW, at this point last year Ollie Henry was "weighing up all offers" too. Hawthorn and North were coming hard.

It's hilarious that mouth breathers such as yourself can't get your heads around this.

Just educate yourself, it's not that hard.

As we know, the Bombers won the battle, only after the Blues got so inside Shiel’s head that he nearly changed his mind at trade deadline. DAMIAN BARRETT goes inside the Shiel deal

Barrett: How Carlton almost pulled off the Shiel steal

How Shiel to Essendon almost didn't happen. Damian Barrett revisits last year's Trade Period

www.afl.com.au

I'm plenty educated ya peanut. If Geelong wanna try and pull a Dodoro theres nothing stopping players from changing their minds last minute. Almost happened here until Essendon was forced to pony up to get it done.

 

[RAPPA]

Instead of giving me an essay, just name one player who requested a trade, and was then forced to go to a club he didn't want to go to. That's my whole point.

I'll see myself out.

Nick Stevens?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Ollie Henry was an entirely different scenario. Already explained it a dozen times.

Geelong have pick 10 and 82 atm so any threat of the National draft is out the window
You've got teams below you who have shown interest in his TDK. Sydney, Carlton, every chance Essendon finish below you too... So PSD out the window.

TDK's clearly not somebody who's leaving due to disdain towards our club, Henry on the other hand was a petulant brat who got angry that he was dropped before the finals and forced his way out the door. Said to everyone its Geelong or nowhere and he's not having it any other way, reports that he was even prepared to sit out a year to get to Geelong.

TDK on the other hand, Carlton fan all his life, always spoken glowingly about the club and the boys but leaving for greener pastures where he can get paid more and/or be given more opportunities to play his best position.

So when it comes down to all your posturing, well you've got absolutely 0 leverage in this situation compared to with Henry and TDK doesn't come across as a type to threaten to sit out a year if he can't go 1 hour down the highway to be near his mum.

Carlton will be dictating terms more than Geelong on this one.

If Geelong isn't prepared to stump up for a player we, they and half a dozen other clubs clearly rate then there won't be a deal and he'll either have to re-sign with Carlton or choose somewhere else.

Fan free to keep him then or send him to Sydney then. He's ok but he's not going to be a player who moves the dial for us.

 

[Warhorse]

As we know, the Bombers won the battle, only after the Blues got so inside Shiel’s head that he nearly changed his mind at trade deadline. DAMIAN BARRETT goes inside the Shiel deal

Barrett: How Carlton almost pulled off the Shiel steal

How Shiel to Essendon almost didn't happen. Damian Barrett revisits last year's Trade Period

www.afl.com.au

I'm plenty educated ya peanut. If Geelong wanna try and pull a Dodoro theres nothing stopping players from changing their minds last minute. Almost happened here until Essendon was forced to pony up to get it done.

So your using Shiel who got to his club of choice as evidence that players don't go to their club of choice?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

So your using Shiel who got to his club of choice as evidence that players don't go to their club of choice?

He is saying that if you convince the player they might be able to go elsewhere then that makes the club pay what they want.

But TDK ain't rated anything like the way Shiel was at the time and there's no chance we're that desperate. If he says maybe Sydney is the way to go we'll hand him a brochure for harbour Bridge tours and chase someone else.

 

[bird_man]

Nick Stevens?

Do you think Carlton would choose to send TDK to the pre season draft and receive nothing for him rather than do a deal with Geelong though?

 

[RAPPA]

Do you think Carlton would choose to send TDK to the pre season draft and receive nothing for him rather than do a deal with Geelong though?

All comes down to the preparedness of the player to affix one rival club as their only destination and not sign with their current club if a deal can’t be done. I’m not privy to the internals going on. But if $$$ is an equally important consideration as playing with his brother, then rival clubs offering more money and a better draft selection would mean Geelong would need to stump up more if they want him. Nonetheless, a lot of bs to play out.

 

[bzparkes]

Nick Stevens?

Keep Tippett also.

 

[Vindicater]

Cats to split 10 into a late first and a second (current or future)

Late first goes to Carlton. Tom to Geelong

Effectively 10 for Tom and a second.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Cats to split 10 into a late first and a second (current or future)

Late first goes to Carlton. Tom to Geelong

Effectively 10 for Tom and a second.

No, Tom isn't worth that.

 

[bird_man]

Cats to split 10 into a late first and a second (current or future)

Late first goes to Carlton. Tom to Geelong

Effectively 10 for Tom and a second.

Geelong would be mad to split at top ten pick just to get DeKoning. They will be able to find another way to get him while keeping their first.

An early 2nd should be enough for him, that shouldn’t be too hard to come by.