Tom Hawkins dangerous tackle, Darragh Joyce concussed

[HairyO]

Of course not, but that didn’t happen with Hawkins, did it?

FYI I was one who thought Holman had to be suspended because the head is sacrosanct, but I was shouted down

So Hawkins didnt pin both arms? The rule literally is when you pin both arms you are responsible for what happens next. Just like if you choose to bump you are responsible for what comes next.

Cordy got a fine for doing far less to Kosi. Redman got a week for doing far less to Bont (downgraded to a fine). It seems like if youre going to do a dangerous tackle you may as well make it massive because the AFL is going to be too scared to be shot down at the crap shoot tribunal so you can completely get away with it.

Silk's Danger-ous tackle forces AFL to make shock rule tweak

AFL makes big change to Match Review guidelines in wake of Shaun Burgoyne call

www.afl.com.au

By their rules in 2017 it was a dangerous tackle. And when they toughened the rules in 2020 it was still a dangerous tackle. Yet Hawkins has been given a free pass.

 

[Sttew]

So Hawkins didnt pin both arms? The rule literally is when you pin both arms you are responsible for what happens next. Just like if you choose to bump you are responsible for what comes next.

Cordy got a fine for doing far less to Kosi. Redman got a week for doing far less to Bont (downgraded to a fine). It seems like if youre going to do a dangerous tackle you may as well make it massive because the AFL is going to be too scared to be shot down at the crap shoot tribunal so you can completely get away with it.

I agree but the precedent set in the Holman case was honoured by the MRO. He had no choice. His words and sensible words, until the AFL over rules.

 

[HairyO]

I agree but the precedent set in the Holman case was honoured by the MRO. He had no choice. His words and sensible words, until the AFL over rules.

Holman pinned one arm which as I said has always had wriggle room. Has anyone in the last 4 years got away with concussing someone after pinning both arms in the tackle? The rule doesnt even require a driving in to the ground motion.

"Any dangerous tackle' to replace references to 'spear tackle' and 'driving an opponent into the ground when his arms are pinned'."

"We want to be clear; protection of the head is our highest priority and we want all players at all levels and age groups to better understand that these tackles shouldn't be part of our game."

They shouldnt be a part of the game except when the 3 weeks would mean missing a qualifying final and a preliminary final...

Players and ex players need to hurry up and start their lawsuits against the AFL so they stop bullshitting about protecting the head and actually protect the head.

 

[JackFlash]

Exhibit A that this person does not watch football or can’t see through the Geelong blinkers.

How can the ball be knocked out in the tackle, when he had already disposed of it?

Exhibit A: What a load of crap. Me? Blinkers? I have more run ins with Geelong supporters than the idiocy i encounter with the opposition. It was a textbook-perfect tackle and the correct decision was made. It's only been an issue with the blinkers worn by biased fans who just want Geelong to fail. How can he be suspended for a tackle was already in motion because Joyce had the ball which was forced hurriedly from that tackle? Does Hawkins have XRAY vision? Could he stop mid air and defy the laws of physics and prevent the action? They play football, it's a body contact sport and football incidents DO happen. Nothing to see on this one. It was never going to see a suspension. I'm happy to hear the argument on banning the tackle altogether if you wish to pursue that?

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

So youre okay with half a dozen Geelong players having their arms pinned and heads driven in to the ground and concussed this weekend?

Lets be honest, if Melbourne can get 6 of our guys like that, all respect to them.

But we'd get 12 of them.

 

[HairyO]

Exhibit A: What a load of crap. Me? Blinkers? I have more run ins with Geelong supporters than the idiocy i encounter with the opposition. It was a textbook-perfect tackle and the correct decision was made.

Since 2017 the rules have explicitly said that pinning both arms in the tackle is considered dangerous and any damage caused will see the tackler punished.

Are you saying Hawkins didnt pin both arms? I mean, you can watch the video linked in this thread.

Can you point to anywhere in the rules where it says that you can pin both arms, concuss your opponent and get away with it? Which clause gives Hawkins the Get Out Of Jail Free card?

 

[JackFlash]

Since 2017 the rules have explicitly said that pinning both arms in the tackle is considered dangerous and any damage caused will see the tackler punished.

Are you saying Hawkins didnt pin both arms? I mean, you can watch the video linked in this thread.

Can you point to anywhere in the rules where it says that you can pin both arms, concuss your opponent and get away with it? Which clause gives Hawkins the Get Out Of Jail Free card?

It was a perfect tackle. What would you like him to do? Stop mid-air, turn around, do a three-card trick, balance a glass of water on his nose, go back and allow Joyce to continue freely on his merry way and kick the ball not give off a rushed handball? What a load of bollocks. This was never going to get cited. It was a nonissue in the first place. The only supporters of any wrongdoing are simply Geelong haters. There is no logic to their argument whatsoever.

 

[HairyO]

It was a perfect tackle.

Except it wasnt. The AFL rules for 4 years have said pinning both arms is a dangerous tackle. You may think it was awesome. But it wasnt one of your players who got concussed.

Im sure if a bunch of Geelong players started getting concussed you would change your mind.

 

[Sttew]

Since 2017 the rules have explicitly said that pinning both arms in the tackle is considered dangerous and any damage caused will see the tackler punished.

Are you saying Hawkins didnt pin both arms? I mean, you can watch the video linked in this thread.

Can you point to anywhere in the rules where it says that you can pin both arms, concuss your opponent and get away with it? Which clause gives Hawkins the Get Out Of Jail Free card?

Please refer your question to the MRO.

And who is going to tell the 18 clubs that pinning both arms in a tackle is illegal? Because EVERY club including yours is doing it.

 

[HairyO]

Please refer your question to the MRO.

And who is going to tell the 18 clubs that pinning both arms in a tackle is illegal? Because EVERY club including yours is doing it.

The AFL should. Or maybe the Supreme Court judge when finding in favour of ex players who have suffered brain damage due to their employer failing their duty of care.

Adam Treloar 4 years ago said that players need to stop pinning both arms in tackles. Coaches have been saying it for years too.

 

[boncer34]

Has anyone else pointed out the Worpel one looks nothing like the Hawkins one?

 

[Roosurgence]

Exhibit A: What a load of crap. Me? Blinkers? I have more run ins with Geelong supporters than the idiocy i encounter with the opposition. It was a textbook-perfect tackle and the correct decision was made. It's only been an issue with the blinkers worn by biased fans who just want Geelong to fail. How can he be suspended for a tackle was already in motion because Joyce had the ball which was forced hurriedly from that tackle? Does Hawkins have XRAY vision? Could he stop mid air and defy the laws of physics and prevent the action? They play football, it's a body contact sport and football incidents DO happen. Nothing to see on this one. It was never going to see a suspension. I'm happy to hear the argument on banning the tackle altogether if you wish to pursue that?

You claimed that the ball was knocked out in the tackle. Are you now retracting that statement and owning the fact that you totally made it up to suit to your narrative?

Have a look at the guys that received fines on the weekend and only as recent as last week to the Redman decision.

How the same bloke that has found those acts worthy of fines and suspensions can think this action is any different, considering the outcome (not that I agree with outcome based determinations) is just mind boggling.

 

[Sttew]

The AFL should. Or maybe the Supreme Court judge when finding in favour of ex players who have suffered brain damage due to their employer failing their duty of care.

Adam Treloar 4 years ago said that players need to stop pinning both arms in tackles. Coaches have been saying it for years too.

I agree, but I'm not letting this eat me up like it is doing to you. You seriously need to take stock. There are things you simply cannot control and working yourself into a tiz up isn't healthy. I wasn't happy when Holman drove Duncan into the ground resulting in Duncan being subbed out. Funnily enough, I don't remember you supporting a case for Holman to be suspended?? And don't say it was because he only pinned one arm. End result was the same - Duncan was concussed and effectively missed 2 games.

 

[HairyO]

I agree, but I'm not letting this eat me up like it is doing to you. You seriously need to take stock. There are things you simply cannot control and working yourself into a tiz up isn't healthy. I wasn't happy when Holman drove Duncan into the ground resulting in Duncan being subbed out. Funnily enough, I don't remember you supporting a case for Holman to be suspended?? And don't say it was because he only pinned one arm. End result was the same - Duncan was concussed and effectively missed 2 games.

I was on the fence on that one. Duncan was running at full speed and only had 1 arm pinned. Very different case to a player who is almost stationary having both arms pinned.

The AFL needs to just admit that protecting the head simply isnt their priority. Otherwise they would have strict rules and a tribunal which is told to enforce them and not make up their own excuses for allowing dangerous behaviour.

Players are getting brain damaged and committing suicide. Dont you think people should get worked up about that?

 

[Sttew]

I was on the fence on that one. Duncan was running at full speed and only had 1 arm pinned. Very different case to a player who is almost stationary having both arms pinned.

The AFL needs to just admit that protecting the head simply isnt their priority. Otherwise they would have strict rules and a tribunal which is told to enforce them and not make up their own excuses for allowing dangerous behaviour.

Players are getting brain damaged and committing suicide. Dont you think people should get worked up about that?

As I keep saying I agree! But once the AFL Tribunal let Holman off the rules changed. The MRO acknowledged this in deciding not to cite Hawkins. He said the tackle was reasonable, and it was. Perhaps you could tell me what Hawkins should have done?

You are coming across as very hypocritical. Your entire case is based on 2 arms being pinned? You don't care that a player with one arm pinned ended up concussed and missing 2 games? "I was on the fence on that one" because only one arm was pinned. What you are really saying is, "I am really concerned about concussions except when I am not".

By the way Joyce was not "almost stationary", and in any case that is irrelevant. He had possession of the ball and as Hawkins tackled him you see the ball released

 

[HairyO]

As I keep saying I agree! But once the AFL Tribunal let Holman off the rules changed. The MRO acknowledged this in deciding not to cite Hawkins. He said the tackle was reasonable, and it was. Perhaps you could tell me what Hawkins should have done?

You are coming across as very hypocritical. Your entire case is based on 2 arms being pinned? You don't care that a player with one arm pinned ended up concussed and missing 2 games? "I was on the fence on that one" because only one arm was pinned. What you are really saying is, "I am really concerned about concussions except when I am not".

By the way Joyce was not "almost stationary", and in any case that is irrelevant. He had possession of the ball and as Hawkins tackled him you see the ball released

He shouldnt have pinned both arms. Because for 4 years that has been declared a dangerous tackle. But now in Round 22 apparently its not a dangerous tackle.

So I assume coaches should be telling their players hit hard, pin the arms, and get their opponent in to the ground. Because that is what the AFL has now signed off on.

 

[Sttew]

He shouldnt have pinned both arms. Because for 4 years that has been declared a dangerous tackle. But now in Round 22 apparently its not a dangerous tackle.

So I assume coaches should be telling their players hit hard, pin the arms, and get their opponent in to the ground. Because that is what the AFL has now signed off on.

So are you admitting that if only one arm is pinned and the tackled player ends up concussed you don't care?

 

[HairyO]

So are you admitting that if only one arm is pinned and the tackled player ends up concussed you don't care?

I do care. But the player has an arm free so can do something themself to minimise the impact of the ground. With both arms pinned you have zero control over what happens next.

That is why there were separate rules. GAJ got a busted shoulder in a tackle where he had 2 arms free and he tried to handball away and contributed to his injury rather than tucking the ball under one arm and using the other to reduce the impact. I dont think anyone blamed the tackler there?

Joyce had no ability to stop Hawkins from doing whatever Hawkins wanted to do to him.

You dont see the difference?

 

[JackFlash]

Except it wasnt. The AFL rules for 4 years have said pinning both arms is a dangerous tackle. You may think it was awesome. But it wasnt one of your players who got concussed.

Im sure if a bunch of Geelong players started getting concussed you would change your mind.

Mitch Duncan says hello! It was a perfect tackle and the injury was not caused by it. It was the playing surface. If the tackle is to blame then it must be banned and all body contact removed from the game. Thankfully the MRO and AFL agreed and there was no case to answer.

 

[HairyO]

Mitch Duncan says hello! It was a perfect tackle and the injury was not caused by it. It was the playing surface. If the tackle is to blame then it must be banned and all body contact removed from the game. Thankfully the MRO and AFL agreed and there was no case to answer.

Duncan didnt have both arms pinned. So clearly it was a different tackle.

Last week Redman got a week for tackling Bont and did zero damage to him. Worpel got a week for doing zero damage to a player. Hawkins concusses someone and gets zero penalty.

How can you say that is appropriate?

If pinning both arms and concussing a player isnt a penalty, surely there can be no punishments at all for tackling. The MRO sure as hell wouldnt have given Bont a week had he tackled Redman and did no damage.

 

[hawkman]

Mitch Duncan says hello! It was a perfect tackle and the injury was not caused by it. It was the playing surface. If the tackle is to blame then it must be banned and all body contact removed from the game. Thankfully the MRO and AFL agreed and there was no case to answer.

I would have no problem that Hawkins got off if Cordy got off this weekend as well. I can't see a difference between the 2 tackles. One player gets up so Cordy get a fine, the other is concussed yet Hawkins gets off. That makes no sense to me

 

[JackFlash]

You claimed that the ball was knocked out in the tackle. Are you now retracting that statement and owning the fact that you totally made it up to suit to your narrative?

Have a look at the guys that received fines on the weekend and only as recent as last week to the Redman decision.

How the same bloke that has found those acts worthy of fines and suspensions can think this action is any different, considering the outcome (not that I agree with outcome based determinations) is just mind boggling.

Good grief, have a look at the moment the tackle is made...where is the ball? It's in mid air and Hawkins has already committed to making this great tackle that forced the rushed handball. At the time the tackle was made Joyce had the ball...What else was Hawkins supposed to do? He perfectly executed the tackle and had nothing to answer for it as he didn't do anything wrong.... It's unfortunate a player was injured, but blame the hardness of the playing surfaces and know that if a 105 kg man falls on you there is a very good chance you will come off second best... Play on was the call and there was never a charge to answer.

 

[Sttew]

You dont see the difference?

No, I don't. Because Duncan had absolutely zero opportunity to protect his head the way he fell and he was concussed. And simply because Holman pinned one arm you're okay with that. You don't think your stance is hypocritical? You're not as concerned about player welfare as you have posted, are you?

 

[Roosurgence]

I would have no problem that Hawkins got off if Cordy got off this weekend as well. I can't see a difference between the 2 tackles. One player gets up so Cordy get a fine, the other is concussed yet Hawkins gets off. That makes no sense to me

That is the point that all these Geelong supporters cant grasp.

We have players getting suspended / fined for actions that are no worse than the Hawkins one.

The fact that the same bloke who makes all of the decisions can grade the Hawkins tackle as lower than any of the others he chose to fine / suspend is just farcical.

I have no issue with the Hawkins tackle not being a fine or suspension, but if that is the case none of these other tackles should be penalised.

Robbie Tarrant was fined this weekend for a dangerous tackle that showed it was the shoulder that contacts the ground.

 

[Patronus]

Duncan didnt have both arms pinned. So clearly it was a different tackle.

Last week Redman got a week for tackling Bont and did zero damage to him. Worpel got a week for doing zero damage to a player. Hawkins concusses someone and gets zero penalty.

How can you say that is appropriate?

If pinning both arms and concussing a player isnt a penalty, surely there can be no punishments at all for tackling. The MRO sure as hell wouldnt have given Bont a week had he tackled Redman and did no damage.

There is no distinction between one and two arms being pinned in the dangerous tackle rule.
Yes Duncan had one arm free when he was tackled but it was the arm on the opposite side of the body that hit the ground. He had no way of protecting his head from that position resulting in him getting concussed.