Tom McCartin having serious concussion issues

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Isaac Cumming No 1 said:
Perhaps dont open the door then, if that's as deep as you can go.
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I think it's ok to make the point that the scrum is not as vigorous as it has been in the past and has been changed
because of neck injuries. I am sure the AFL categorises all concussion and would be well aware of which incidents
could be avoided and which were just wrong place wrong time. Not all sports have the 360 degree element
like AFL does so it's hard to glean medical information from them.
 
Kappa said:
I really hope that player who have had concussions in the past realise that's there's more important things in life than diving head 1st for the Footy... You can still be a good player without a suicidal attack on the Footy.
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Alan Toovey comes to mind for your blokes. I remember he got KO'd (by one of Hawkins or JPod) by running into a contest he had no chance of impacting (small/medium defender coming up against a giant with a run at it moving forwards). Remember thinking - brave, but unnecessary. Courageous player, and is just one of many examples of suicidal attack on the footy when really the safest option is to pull out of the contest.
 

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RUNVS said:
More information is desperately needed. Things like accurately predicting who is more predisposed to concussion issues or finding better ways to combat the problem such as new and improved helmets would be massive for the industry.

I do anticipate a problem though because I could imagine with all the draft medical testing being done on 17 year olds that there will come a time when a player is not drafted solely because they tested him and found out he was more likely to get concussions than the average person. In the future someone like Liam Picken might never get drafted.
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To be honest if the science is rigorous and there is ample evidence/proof that the player is a high risk - I don't see why this counts as a 'problem'?

Clubs are entitled to pick players they choose. Plenty of players have missed out for other genetic issues (height, speed). Also clubs probably would want to avoid a huge payout for a player that doesn't play with concussion issues if they knew before hand that this player was a high risk.
 
Also is there any reason that the McCartin issues have to be genetic? From what I see they are head-first, bash and crash type players (Tom less so but certainly a physical player), they could both just have less training/technical flaws in how to protect themselves and so get more hits? Especially if they were like this as juniors, leading to brain trauma at an earlier age?
 
StillAtLarge said:
I'm sure I've seen both those players ko'ed multiple times? Ward most famously in the '16 prelim and Selwood every other week
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Ward just that once I can recall. Perhaps at the Bulldogs.

My point was both spend a lot of time at the bottom of packs and are surprisingly resilient.
 
Kwality said:
A main board issue for sure .... shocker of a subject that it is for the footy community.

I go back to Bert Thornley, a member of Carltons 'Teddy Hopkins' premiership side in the VFL days, thats a different story, but Bert wore a helmet.
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Pretty sure that Bert was the player taken off at half time (pre-interchange) in the grand final to bring teddy hopkins on. Without any input at all he helped changed the face of footy (handball and play on at all costs).
 
Yojimbo said:
I find Angus Brayshaw from Melbourne an interesting player to watch, straps on the helmet and he seems to
be better then you see research that helmets do nothing and you wonder what is going on. Geelong's Joel
Selwood I have seen looking dazed and staring vacantly ahead, and the game had not even started he was
at the top of the race about to come on. In rugby players regularly suffered neck injuries in the scrum and
now they just pay it lip service and don't push maybe AFL was not meant to be played at such a frenetic
pace, maybe that is why the oval is so big. In contact sports there will always be injuries, but why don't we
ever hear how can your best player (Tom Mitchell) break his leg so badly in a January tackling drill. AFL
avoids having difficult conversations much like the WWE with Chris Benoit this needs to change.
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Melbourne spent a long time with Brayshaw with how he would approach the contest, they pretty much had to strip it all back and start again with him. Pretty damn good results too.
 
Yojimbo said:
I think it's ok to make the point that the scrum is not as vigorous as it has been in the past and has been changed
because of neck injuries. I am sure the AFL categorises all concussion and would be well aware of which incidents
could be avoided and which were just wrong place wrong time. Not all sports have the 360 degree element
like AFL does so it's hard to glean medical information from them.
Click to expand...
I dont believe neck injuries were an issue. The rules dont prevent pushing In the scrum. It was unmanageable, that was the issue.
 
BigFrizz36 said:
Pretty sure that Bert was the player taken off at half time (pre-interchange) in the grand final to bring teddy hopkins on. Without any input at all he helped changed the face of footy (handball and play on at all costs).
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct, I called it 'the Teddy Hopkins' for a reason - dirty Berty (from his early career at East Fremantle) had a shocker.
https://australianfootball.com/players/player/bert+thornley/10173

Last I heard Bert was alive & well living in NQ - put his head over the ball did Bert, & he's in his mid 70s now.
 
There is no cause for debate at this point. Only wild speculation based upon what can simply be pure coincidence. No club including my own is in the slightest bit interested in pushing for the rapid return of any guy at such an early stage of his career. Pointless. Tom is neither essential nor has he even cemented best 22 YET.

If that means he has 6 months off or more "just in case", our clubs (without exception) will do that...even if the doctors say 3 months is plenty.

Just because a media scab feels a need to sensationalise to sell his opinion piece does not make a story factual. Was he even allowed near Tom to interview him ? Without the pure speculation about it being potentially career ending it would have never even gained legs. So no prizes for guessing why the flog tweeted his own exaggerated interpretation.

Zero point adding to wild speculation. Cant imagine his family would appreciate it.
 
Yojimbo said:
I find Angus Brayshaw from Melbourne an interesting player to watch, straps on the helmet and he seems to
be better then you see research that helmets do nothing and you wonder what is going on. Geelong's Joel
Selwood I have seen looking dazed and staring vacantly ahead, and the game had not even started he was
at the top of the race about to come on. In rugby players regularly suffered neck injuries in the scrum and
now they just pay it lip service and don't push maybe AFL was not meant to be played at such a frenetic
pace, maybe that is why the oval is so big. In contact sports there will always be injuries, but why don't we
ever hear how can your best player (Tom Mitchell) break his leg so badly in a January tackling drill. AFL
avoids having difficult conversations much like the WWE with Chris Benoit this needs to change.
Click to expand...
Truckosaurus said:
Joel Selwood does NOT avoid head collisions
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StillAtLarge said:
I'm sure I've seen both those players ko'ed multiple times? Ward most famously in the '16 prelim and Selwood every other week
Click to expand...
Joel Selwood has actually only been concussed twice in his AFL career. Once via Farren Ray in 2010 and once via Ballantyne a couple of years ago.
 

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SterlingArcher said:
To be honest if the science is rigorous and there is ample evidence/proof that the player is a high risk - I don't see why this counts as a 'problem'?

Clubs are entitled to pick players they choose. Plenty of players have missed out for other genetic issues (height, speed). Also clubs probably would want to avoid a huge payout for a player that doesn't play with concussion issues if they knew before hand that this player was a high risk.
Click to expand...

If a test becomes available and you don't use it to screen players then it would become arguable that you haven't exercised your duty of care.
 
It seems as though there's a lot of factors in how easy it might be for different people to get concussions. It always seemed to me a combination of weak supporting structure (relatively weak or long neck) as well as the manner in which a player played, or perhaps a genetically low amount of cerebrospinal fluid.

Either way, when you look at head first players with relatively low cases of concussion to how they play, they often have stronger looking neck and jaw structure.
1551052346785.png 1551052367496.png

Compared to:
1551052416243.png 1551052434826.png
 
One other issue that seems to affect concussions could be diabetes. Paddy McCartin, Jack Fitzpatrick being the most recent cases of diabetics being more easily concussed or perhaps suffering longer lasting effects of concussion. Dale Weightman had plenty of concussions in his time too.
 
Yojimbo said:
A gorilla from Melbourne Zoo passed Joel Selwood's concussion test with 100 %, speak and your back on. ;)
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting that the Geelong medical team subverts the AFL initiated concussion protocols to allow Joel to play while experiencing the affects of a concussion?
 
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