Past Tom Mitchell - AFL MVP, Dual AA Rover, B&F Winner, 2018 Brownlow Medallist - traded for pick 14 2016

[Tuco]

Wonder which club hawthorn will pension him off to in his twilight

The Tasmanian Kangaroos?

 

[scaryness]

Do you think Hawthorn's list manager brought up how they allowed us to take Buddy and traded us JPK for nothing when they gave us a single draft pick for Titch?

 

[mtooler]

Handy player.

 

[swansfan51]

Do you think Hawthorn's list manager brought up how they allowed us to take Buddy and traded us JPK for nothing when they gave us a single draft pick for Titch?

They probably brought up how he was our "5th midfielder", we played him in the reserves, and we didn't give much of a s**t about him, so surely we didn't need much trade currency?

 

[caesar88]

Just asking outta curiosity, since I have never been a Mitchell dweller... but for those that are (and i'm not judging), what is it that you are mad about re Mitchell leaving us?

Is it
a) That we spent our salary on Tippett, rather than a young and upcoming midfielder?
b) That we off-loaded Mitchell instead of one of our more established star mids (ie Kennedy, Parker, Hannebery, Jack)?
c) That we let Mitchell go too easily and didn't fight for a better deal for ourselves?
d) Other (please specify)

Btw this is not a piss-take. I genuinely just want to know where the frustration lies.

 

[mtooler]

Just asking outta curiosity, since I have never been a Mitchell dweller... but for those that are (and i'm not judging), what is it that you are mad about re Mitchell leaving us?

Is it
a) That we spent our salary on Tippett, rather than a young and upcoming midfielder?
b) That we off-loaded Mitchell instead of one of our more established star mids (ie Kennedy, Parker, Hannebery, Jack)?
c) That we let Mitchell go too easily and didn't fight for a better deal for ourselves?
d) Other (please specify)

Btw this is not a piss-take. I genuinely just want to know where the frustration lies.

I don't mind that he's gone, but there's a lot of people comically talking down Tom Mitchell as a mediocre player, which causes frustration as they're in denial akin to climate change skeptics. I mean one was literally arguing that despite Mitchell being one of the Brownlow favorites it doesn't necessarily correspond to him being a good/great player, which is borderline embarrassing for them in my opinion but each to their own, provides entertainment when people talk Mitchell down or make out it was a stellar move in seeing him depart.

 

[caesar88]

I don't mind that he's gone, but there's a lot of people comically talking down Tom Mitchell as a mediocre player, which causes frustration as they're in denial akin to climate change skeptics. I mean one was literally arguing that despite Mitchell being one of the Brownlow favorites it doesn't necessarily correspond to him being a good/great player, which is borderline embarrassing for them in my opinion but each to their own, provides entertainment when people talk Mitchell down or make out it was a stellar move in seeing him depart.

Fair point. From where I stand he’s a top 20 maybe top 15 player in the comp. I don’t know how he could possible be judged any harder than that. He has become a midfield superstar for his club. But I also have no doubt in my mind were he to move to Gold Coast or Brisbane or Fremantle instead of Hawthorn, and having the same output as he currently is, he would not be getting this much appreciation.

 

[Kummerspeck]

They probably brought up how he was our "5th midfielder", we played him in the reserves, and we didn't give much of a s**t about him, so surely we didn't need much trade currency?

You mean the guy who played almost fifty games in a row in the seniors in the two years before he requested a trade?

 

[scaryness]

Just asking outta curiosity, since I have never been a Mitchell dweller... but for those that are (and i'm not judging), what is it that you are mad about re Mitchell leaving us?

Is it
a) That we spent our salary on Tippett, rather than a young and upcoming midfielder?
b) That we off-loaded Mitchell instead of one of our more established star mids (ie Kennedy, Parker, Hannebery, Jack)?
c) That we let Mitchell go too easily and didn't fight for a better deal for ourselves?
d) Other (please specify)

Btw this is not a piss-take. I genuinely just want to know where the frustration lies.

C for me.

Also there is definitely a seesaw between some vastly underrating what he does and some somewhat overrating what he can do.

 

[Kirkswan]

Was watching 360 last night or the night before and they had noted that Mitchell had not made tge team of the round yet. They said that this was based on Champion data. They contacted Champion data who told them that while he was rated first for possessions, he was rated in the 300s for usage.

 

[The King!]

Was watching 360 last night or the night before and they had noted that Mitchell had not made tge team of the round yet. They said that this was based on Champion data. They contacted Champion data who told them that while he was rated first for possessions, he was rated in the 300s for usage.

There it is

 

[mtooler]

Fair point. From where I stand he’s a top 20 maybe top 15 player in the comp. I don’t know how he could possible be judged any harder than that. He has become a midfield superstar for his club. But I also have no doubt in my mind were he to move to Gold Coast or Brisbane or Fremantle instead of Hawthorn, and having the same output as he currently is, he would not be getting this much appreciation.

Yeah true and its a bit of passing ships with each camp appraising him through different lenses. How I view Mitchell isn't on his overall game but as a role player in a team, if you want someone to stand up in the heat, make tackles, extract the pill to outside runners, be a link in the chain from rebound 50s and bob up for 1-2 goals a week he really is the best for that. Not elite foot skills etc, but his strengths offset it. Depends on the needs of the team he is in, which is why I get why people we're ok with him leaving us, but I understand why other teams struggling in the midfield for grunt would be thinking he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[swansfan51]

Was watching 360 last night or the night before and they had noted that Mitchell had not made tge team of the round yet. They said that this was based on Champion data. They contacted Champion data who told them that while he was rated first for possessions, he was rated in the 300s for usage.

He definitely has room to improve. He's #2 for score involvements and #3 for metres gained, if he can lift those to #1 (like most of the rest of his stats) that will show continued development

 

[Number37]

Reasons for Mitchell leaving...
He really wanted to stay.
He loves the club.

 

[tombomb]

I got this guys.

I backed him for the brownlow this week and I am going to trade Parker to him and pay an inflated price for him in Supercoach.

he will back to averaging 105 in no time.

 

[DavyRed]

You may or may not hate the guy because he elected to leave the club, you may or may not think the club treated him badly whilst he was here and you may debate where he was in our midfield pecking order but those posters who are claiming he’s not actually very good anyway have got rocks in their head.

Would any Swans supporter seriously be claiming anything other than the guy’s a superstar if he was still with us, getting over 30 touches a game and giving us first use of the ball more often than not?

 

[brad cooper]

They probably brought up how he was our "5th midfielder", we played him in the reserves, and we didn't give much of a s**t about him, so surely we didn't need much trade currency?

Or perhaps just as simple as he was out of contract, so could force the swans hand with the possibility of acquiring him for free in the pre season draft. They had a lot more room in their salary cap so could pay more.

What proof do you have that the swans didn't give a s**t about him. They gave him a 5 year deal to start with, something no other player has ever got at sydney.

 

[Kirkswan]

There it is

There what is?

 

[Kirkswan]

He definitely has room to improve. He's #2 for score involvements and #3 for metres gained, if he can lift those to #1 (like most of the rest of his stats) that will show continued development

You're a smarty, aren't you... I have no idea how Champion Data identifies the team of the week, or even if I agree with it's selections as I am just not that interested. However I happened to have the time and the opportunity to watch the show (and what a crappy show it is!), and they mentioned this. I did consider posting it as a fun fact but I have no idea how well they verify their information.

 

[Tedeski]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-04-19/how-tom-mitchell-became-a-trade-bargain

 

[SilentHunter_]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-04-19/how-tom-mitchell-became-a-trade-bargain

A win-win trade? Wtf? Don't get me wrong I do have the view that both florent and hayward will become great players from us but they're promising and not stars by any sense of the imagination. Mitchell on the other hand...

 

[Kennedy Parker]

A win-win trade? Wtf? Don't get me wrong I do have the view that both florent and hayward will become great players from us but they're promising and not stars by any sense of the imagination. Mitchell on the other hand...

Would perhaps be wiser to pass judgment 5 years on when Hayward and Florent are in their prime.

 

[swansfan51]

Would perhaps be wiser to pass judgment 5 years on when Hayward and Florent are in their prime.

We did not trade Mitchell for Hayward or Florent, we traded him for a draft pick.

I've explained this before a couple of times - if you trade Dustin Martin for picks 64, 65, and 66, and manage to pick up 3 players with those picks who become Brownlow medallists, the trade was still awful. The same in reverse, if you trade Jordan Foote for pick 1 in the draft, and the poor 18yo gets hit by a bus and never plays a game, you still robbed the other team blind.

The analogy I gave last time was this: I have a magic coin. When flipped, it lands on heads 55% of the times and tails 45% of the times. I offer you even money (a $1 stake gives a $1 profit), and I win if the coin lands on heads. If the coin lands on tails, you have won but you still made a poor decision in electing to bet.

 

[Kennedy Parker]

We did not trade Mitchell for Hayward or Florent, we traded him for a draft pick.

I've explained this before a couple of times - if you trade Dustin Martin for picks 64, 65, and 66, and manage to pick up 3 players with those picks who become Brownlow medallists, the trade was still awful. The same in reverse, if you trade Jordan Foote for pick 1 in the draft, and the poor 18yo gets hit by a bus and never plays a game, you still robbed the other team blind.

The analogy I gave last time was this: I have a magic coin. When flipped, it lands on heads 55% of the times and tails 45% of the times. I offer you even money (a $1 stake gives a $1 profit), and I win if the coin lands on heads. If the coin lands on tails, you have won but you still made a poor decision in electing to bet.

I'm not saying that trading Tom Mitchell for pick 14 and whatever late pick swap was a win. I'm saying that it's unfair to make a comparison between Mitchell, a premier ball winner in his prime to two kids in their second year.

 

[swansfan51]

I'm not saying that trading Tom Mitchell for pick 14 and whatever late pick swap was a win. I'm saying that it's unfair to make a comparison between Mitchell, a premier ball winner in his prime to two kids in their second year.

100% agree, and I'll never be making that comparison to assess the value of the trade.