MVP Tommy Boyd - The Boy, The Man, The Premiership Hero

doggies ftw

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I think the perfect structure to play considering the way the games moving and also our list is one genuine ruckman, one genuine KPF and ideally a 2nd ruck/fwd whose good at both (dont underestimate just how hard that is to find though)

Looking at our list, if all were fit and in form currently id rate them -

KPF - Boyd > English > Trengove
Ruck - Trengove > English > Boyd
2nd ruck/fwd - Boyd > English/Trengove

A few people reckon he wouldnt be playing at all even if fit but i dont believe that tbh.

Theres a massive opening there for him to take when hes ready, and i still see him getting there. Although this injury set back is frustrating.

I do think this could be a blessing in disguise though. It allows English the opportunity for game time that i dont believe he would be getting. Which is extremely important for us in both fast tracking his development but also keeping him happy in Melbourne. And i really do believe he has the attributes to really make that forward/2nd ruck position his own, im expecting big things from him this year in that role. Plus I think theres no pressure on Boyd whatsoever any more, hes no longer the great white hope and hes no longer required week to week, that should give him the freedom to get himself right, and when he is ready he'll have to earn his spot back like anyone else. Its all up to him now.

I like Trengove but if hes not rucking i dont want him anywhere near the first team. And ideally we want English to take over the first ruck as soon as hes ready. So ideally Trengove rucks this year, English breaks out as AFL ready in the forward/ruck role and Boyd has a big second half of the year pushing to take that role back. And then in 2020 English takes over the first ruck and Boyd slots in up front. Happy days
 

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dergert

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I'm hearing Boyd is frustrated by his back situation, it's not like he doesn't care.

I honestly think by the time he's ready for senior football this year he doesn't get a game - Schache establishes himself as that 'high' forward, Trengove is Ben Hudson but an inch or two shorter, and English is a special talent we simply have to let do his thing at the highest level.

With those three playing we just don't have room for Boyd.
Wouldn't surprise me as some of us have raised some questions about our club's medical department.
 

BRWB

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I think the perfect structure to play considering the way the games moving and also our list is one genuine ruckman, one genuine KPF and ideally a 2nd ruck/fwd whose good at both (dont underestimate just how hard that is to find though)

Looking at our list, if all were fit and in form currently id rate them -

KPF - Boyd > English > Trengove
Ruck - Trengove > English > Boyd
2nd ruck/fwd - Boyd > English/Trengove

A few people reckon he wouldnt be playing at all even if fit but i dont believe that tbh.

Theres a massive opening there for him to take when hes ready, and i still see him getting there. Although this injury set back is frustrating.

I do think this could be a blessing in disguise though. It allows English the opportunity for game time that i dont believe he would be getting. Which is extremely important for us in both fast tracking his development but also keeping him happy in Melbourne. And i really do believe he has the attributes to really make that forward/2nd ruck position his own, im expecting big things from him this year in that role. Plus I think theres no pressure on Boyd whatsoever any more, hes no longer the great white hope and hes no longer required week to week, that should give him the freedom to get himself right, and when he is ready he'll have to earn his spot back like anyone else. Its all up to him now.

I like Trengove but if hes not rucking i dont want him anywhere near the first team. And ideally we want English to take over the first ruck as soon as hes ready. So ideally Trengove rucks this year, English breaks out as AFL ready in the forward/ruck role and Boyd has a big second half of the year pushing to take that role back. And then in 2020 English takes over the first ruck and Boyd slots in up front. Happy days
Poor old Josh Schache is stiff
 

Munnez

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I would really like to see T Boyd have an uninterrupted preseason so we could see and know for sure what he has to offer.
The tragedy of it is we may never get to see it happen.

Wouldn't be the first to be cruelled by injury
 

Mattdougie

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  1. Contracts are not that simple, you can't just sack someone for no reason
  2. When you do sack someone, their salary still affects the cap, so you don't just free up that entire room
  3. Boyd played arguably one of the best individual games of any player on our list at any point in their career. I'd hope the club wants him to start replicating that form rather than just ditching him
  4. That would be an incredibly campaignery thing for the club to do, and would point to enormous issues with our culture and values

If by the end of the year he isn’t producing he should be asked to retire or traded. He is taking cap room thatcouid be paid to English or used to get a free agent now.

He has had long enough mate. 10 good games in 4 years isn’t good enough.

We can’t keep living in the past and carrying blokes because they were god for 2 weeks in 2016.

And what is actually wrong with him? Is it menta health? is it back? Is it hammys or is it something else the club won’t tell us? Too many excuse for too long now
 

Virgin Dog

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If by the end of the year he isn’t producing he should be asked to retire or traded. He is taking cap room thatcouid be paid to English or used to get a free agent now.

He has had long enough mate. 10 good games in 4 years isn’t good enough.

We can’t keep living in the past and carrying blokes because they were god for 2 weeks in 2016.

And what is actually wrong with him? Is it menta health? is it back? Is it hammys or is it something else the club won’t tell us? Too many excuse for too long now
Well according to a multitude of media releases its his back, and has been for the past year. It's not a crime for him to have mental health problems, and I'm sure he'd be playing if his back wasn't an issue. Until there is any genuine proof that the club is lying to the media about Boyd's reason for absence, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're telling the truth.

And which free agent should we be picking up? Doesn't seem to be much on the market right now, at least nothing worth the wage that Boyd is on. I'm happy for us to take the gamble as we saw the kind of dividends an in-form Boyd gave us
 

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If by the end of the year he isn’t producing he should be asked to retire or traded. He is taking cap room thatcouid be paid to English or used to get a free agent now.

He has had long enough mate. 10 good games in 4 years isn’t good enough.

We can’t keep living in the past and carrying blokes because they were god for 2 weeks in 2016.

And what is actually wrong with him? Is it menta health? is it back? Is it hammys or is it something else the club won’t tell us? Too many excuse for too long now
Is there an issue with it being both his back and mental health? What possible reason do the club have not to tell us something in this case? There really isnt any, no benefit to them not being open. And from what it seems, it is both and they are related (i.e. the comments from the players and club). This is a common thing, and we've been over it.

I agree he is out of credits regardless of what the issue is, we need to be ruthless if we want to be successful. We dont want him hanging around like Tippett.
 

AFDogs

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  1. Contracts are not that simple, you can't just sack someone for no reason
  2. When you do sack someone, their salary still affects the cap, so you don't just free up that entire room
  3. Boyd played arguably one of the best individual games of any player on our list at any point in their career. I'd hope the club wants him to start replicating that form rather than just ditching him
  4. That would be an incredibly campaignery thing for the club to do, and would point to enormous issues with our culture and values
I wasn't being serious at all.

Although I would like J Kelly for the trifecta.
 

Antares

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  1. Contracts are not that simple, you can't just sack someone for no reason
  2. When you do sack someone, their salary still affects the cap, so you don't just free up that entire room
  3. Boyd played arguably one of the best individual games of any player on our list at any point in their career. I'd hope the club wants him to start replicating that form rather than just ditching him
  4. That would be an incredibly campaignery thing for the club to do, and would point to enormous issues with our culture and values
You guys sure do exaggerate.
 

Mattdougie

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Well according to a multitude of media releases its his back, and has been for the past year. It's not a crime for him to have mental health problems, and I'm sure he'd be playing if his back wasn't an issue. Until there is any genuine proof that the club is lying to the media about Boyd's reason for absence, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're telling the truth.

And which free agent should we be picking up? Doesn't seem to be much on the market right now, at least nothing worth the wage that Boyd is on. I'm happy for us to take the gamble as we saw the kind of dividends an in-form Boyd gave us
Then perhaps go and get someone that can actually get on the field for the 700k a year they get
 

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ScragCity

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  1. Contracts are not that simple, you can't just sack someone for no reason
  2. When you do sack someone, their salary still affects the cap, so you don't just free up that entire room
  3. Boyd played arguably one of the best individual games of any player on our list at any point in their career. I'd hope the club wants him to start replicating that form rather than just ditching him
  4. That would be an incredibly campaignery thing for the club to do, and would point to enormous issues with our culture and values
Mate, he kicked three goals (one was a sitter), took a few nice grabs and came fourth in the Norm Smith voting. Get your hand off it. You’re absolutely right about his contract though. Unless he chooses to retire we are stuck paying him out the entirety. I really hope we were smart enough to put clauses in it regarding games played. My main concern is that we have a lot of blokes coming out of contract this year and it would be devestating if Boyd’s salary pushes them out.
 

Virgin Dog

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Mate, he kicked three goals (one was a sitter), took a few nice grabs and came fourth in the Norm Smith voting. Get your hand off it. You’re absolutely right about his contract though. Unless he chooses to retire we are stuck paying him out the entirety. I really hope we were smart enough to put clauses in it regarding games played. My main concern is that we have a lot of blokes coming out of contract this year and it would be devestating if Boyd’s salary pushes them out.
Many rated Boyd as the number 1 on ground, and thought he was robbed of the Norm. Go back and watch the granny impartially and tell me Boyd isn't worth gambling on. You clearly don't rate the bloke, but there's no denying that grand final was something else.

But yeah, if he was OOC right now, I'd hope his next contract was on less than half the amount. But for the time being, I think it's best the club has him play out his contract in full the reassess the situation from there. Really hope he becomes something, but odds not looking good quite yet
 

Virgin Dog

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Then perhaps go and get someone that can actually get on the field for the 700k a year they get
I already asked who? The club pursued Wingard and look how that went. Same with Hurley before him. We struggle to attract big names, and that's fine, but it means we have to develop our own. Boyd has an absolutely enormous ceiling (and clearly a very low floor) so he's the type of player we have to speculate on
 

BRWB

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Many rated Boyd as the number 1 on ground, and thought he was robbed of the Norm. Go back and watch the granny impartially and tell me Boyd isn't worth gambling on. You clearly don't rate the bloke, but there's no denying that grand final was something else
Tom Williams had an awesome game on Buddy at his peak. Sadly couldn't build on it or get on the park much.

Tom Boyds games played is starting to track like biscuits Williams, as is Boyd's wide range of injuries. Shoulder, back, etc

Boyd has 61 games in five yrs and looking like SFA in yr 6. Williams had something like 86 games in 8 yrs and then retired....
 

Mattdougie

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I already asked who? The club pursued Wingard and look how that went. Same with Hurley before him. We struggle to attract big names, and that's fine, but it means we have to develop our own. Boyd has an absolutely enormous ceiling (and clearly a very low floor) so he's the type of player we have to speculate on

We have speculated for 4 years already and if eveyone is fit is he a walk up start?

Take the handful of good games out and the answer is no.

There isn’t much out in FA so maybe have a crack and target a player in contract that the club thinks fills a real need. Tell me how Melbourne can get players but we can’t? Who in gods earth chooses to play for Melbourne?

Sorry but if Boyd doesn’t do something this year the club should be making every possible move to get him off the list.
 

Virgin Dog

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We have speculated for 4 years already and if eveyone is fit is he a walk up start?

Take the handful of good games out and the answer is no.

There isn’t much out in FA so maybe have a crack and target a player in contract that the club thinks fills a real need. Tell me how Melbourne can get players but we can’t? Who in gods earth chooses to play for Melbourne?

Sorry but if Boyd doesn’t do something this year the club should be making every possible move to get him off the list.
If the club finds a suitable replacement, then I'm all for figuring out the contract situation. If we can't secure a big name though, I'd hope the club doesn't mess with Boyd's contract as I feel it's a bad look for us, and gambling on a final year is worth it in my opinion if we can't find anyone else to slot right in. If we found ourselves a Lobb/Vardy type then I'd be all ears
 

Mattdougie

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If the club finds a suitable replacement, then I'm all for figuring out the contract situation. If we can't secure a big name though, I'd hope the club doesn't mess with Boyd's contract as I feel it's a bad look for us, and gambling on a final year is worth it in my opinion if we can't find anyone else to slot right in. If we found ourselves a Lobb/Vardy type then I'd be all ears
His contract runs to 2021

So you think another 2.1 million is a reasonable gamble?

And after the way we booted Jake out in not sure they are concerned with how things look.

If he was on 200-400k them maybe hold out but when he is on so much it’s negligent financial management to not try and cut our losses
 

Virgin Dog

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His contract runs to 2021

So you think another 2.1 million is a reasonable gamble?

And after the way we booted Jake out in not sure they are concerned with how things look.

If he was on 200-400k them maybe hold out but when he is on so much it’s negligent financial management to not try and cut our losses
Jake being booted was entirely his own doing, it's not really comparable. Tom hasn't cheated around with teenagers behind his pregnant partners back
 

Mattdougie

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Jake being booted was entirely his own doing, it's not really comparable. Tom hasn't cheated around with teenagers behind his pregnant partners back

Didn’t say it wasn’t his own doing just the way we did it was poor and don’t pretend he isn’t the first player to do that

I could name 3 huge bulldog names that were well known for it
 

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If by the end of the year he isn’t producing he should be asked to retire or traded. He is taking cap room thatcouid be paid to English or used to get a free agent now.
He could quite easily request that we pay him his contract in full if we do, and we'd be up for a fight with the AFLPA (and lawyers specialising in common contract law) if we did.

I understand the concept of sunk costs but we needed a huge carrot to get anyone near us in Oct 2014 and we paid market price.
 

ScragCity

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He could quite easily request that we pay him his contract in full if we do, and we'd be up for a fight with the AFLPA (and lawyers specialising in common contract law) if we did.

I understand the concept of sunk costs but we needed a huge carrot to get anyone near us in Oct 2014 and we paid market price.
I don’t think MD understands how contracts work, bless his soul.
 

Mattdougie

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He could quite easily request that we pay him his contract in full if we do, and we'd be up for a fight with the AFLPA (and lawyers specialising in common contract law) if we did.

I understand the concept of sunk costs but we needed a huge carrot to get anyone near us in Oct 2014 and we paid market price.

Yes we did hit that was 5 years ago mate

I understand we can’t force him out or even make him retire but I’d think someone sits down at the club(if he has another stinker this year) and says mate this isn’t going to work for you how bout you pull it and move on with your life. Make an agreement if we must but it would be negligent to carry another 1.4-1.5 million without trying to get rid of it.
 

BRWB

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He could quite easily request that we pay him his contract in full if we do, and we'd be up for a fight with the AFLPA (and lawyers specialising in common contract law) if we did.

I understand the concept of sunk costs but we needed a huge carrot to get anyone near us in Oct 2014 and we paid market price.
Players that retire early can take a part contract payment. If he doesn't want to go then I guess the Dogs and Tom stay together.

Premature anyway. Lets see how the season unfolds. If his various conditions resolve then we look forward to seeing how he goes next year I guess. But if they don't, then a Tom Williams style early retirement could be an option.
 
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Mate, he kicked three goals (one was a sitter), took a few nice grabs and came fourth in the Norm Smith voting. Get your hand off it. You’re absolutely right about his contract though. Unless he chooses to retire we are stuck paying him out the entirety. I really hope we were smart enough to put clauses in it regarding games played. My main concern is that we have a lot of blokes coming out of contract this year and it would be devestating if Boyd’s salary pushes them out.
He kicked 3 goals and missed a sitter to make it 4 - he kicked one on his left foot where he couldn't see daylight between the goalposts and one from 65m out which drove a stake through the Swans' hearts in the last... he also took 3 towering marks coming out of the backline in the last quarter when the margin was one point and the game was on the line...
Don't let your hatred get in the way of the truth.
 
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