MVP Tommy Boyd - The Grand Final Enigma

[BrisDog]

Yep, bulging disk (herniatic). Campaigner of a thing but highly curable once the correct rehab is identified. As mentioned earlier it took me 2 years of average physios to find the cure to my severe herniation and I am 100% pain free now, apart from the alcoholism.

 

[BrisDog]

Don’t just think about the 3 goals he kicked, particularly the 90 metre post-Morris tackle launch, think about the 2 contested marks at half back just beforehand to get us out of jail. In years gone by (97-98, 2008-10) this is where we lost - in the air. Contested grabs. Roughies was epic in this regard as well.

That is why I am currently building a bronze statue of Tommy J Boyd in my garage - launching himself above Nankervis 21 minutes into the last...

 

[Sharkey66]

Don’t just think about the 3 goals he kicked, particularly the 90 metre post-Morris tackle launch, think about the 2 contested marks at half back just beforehand to get us out of jail. In years gone by (97-98, 2008-10) this is where we lost - in the air. Contested grabs. Roughies was epic in this regard as well.

That is why I am currently building a bronze statue of Tommy J Boyd in my garage - launching himself above Nankervis 21 minutes into the last...

Come on mate i find this very hard to believe. I have been reliably informed by all and sundry on this forum, and indeed in this very thread that Tommy cannot mark the ball. Therefore, the bolded above just simply could not have happened.

 

[BRWB]

Come on mate i find this very hard to believe. I have been reliably informed by all and sundry on this forum, and indeed in this very thread that Tommy cannot mark the ball. Therefore, the bolded above just simply could not have happened.

He may have caught a few on GF day but has taken about 20 odd contested marks in the two years since that great day.

For comparison the younger and injury interrupted career of another fwd/ruck, Peter Wright. He has averaged 4.9, 5.5 & 4.7 in his last three years. Boyd averaged 3.3, 2.4 & 2.2 marks (going past to present so he has been getting worse at marking it). English in his second year averaged 4.9 marks a game. Boyd has never averaged over 3.4 marks a game in a season.

Tom is actually in the bottom 236 players in the league for average marks and that includes kids who didn't play.

What slow, 200cm, non dominant ruck, who plays regularly marks it as little as Tom?

Time will tell if he can achieve his 8 mark high watermark game in the GF again. But just getting on the park seems like it will be an achievement this season.

 

[100action]

Yep, bulging disk (herniatic). Campaigner of a thing but highly curable once the correct rehab is identified. As mentioned earlier it took me 2 years of average physios to find the cure to my severe herniation and I am 100% pain free now, apart from the alcoholism.

how can you cure herniation?, once the nucleus fluid has perforated the disc there is no putting it back in.

 

[dogwatch]

I don't think working out how much he's been paid per game is the way to look at it.

He is flesh, bone and sinew like a thoroughbred racehorse. You can pay a million or two for a yearling that's bred in the purple and they can break down never to race again after two starts. That's a million per race. Was it good value? Of course not (unless you can send the horse to stud) but that's the random luck of horse racing. You don't say it cost me a million per race. You say I paid a shitload of money for a great prospect and he could never get on the track. Shrug shoulders and start again.

Same applies with footballers. There have been some classy players who never really got their career started due to injuries and clubs have blown high draft picks getting almost nothing in return.

When we traded for Tom Boyd we didn't know he'd develop serious back problems and have problems with depression. GWS might not have known it at that stage either.

What we do know is that he's failed to become a gun forward or a gun ruckman in the games he's played since. What we don't know is if he'd racked up 100 games by now would he finally be developing his skills so that he was marking more and kicking more goals? Maybe, maybe not, but we'll never know if he can't get on the park.

What makes all this bearable is the huge role he played in our first flag for 62 years. So on the one hand we have the argument that he cost us $100,000 a game (expensive!). On the other we have the argument that $5m is a bargain if it turns out to be the decisive factor in us winning a flag. People look at value for money in different ways and it may depend on what point they are trying to make rather than any genuine attempt to do some accurate accounting.

The final point to make is that it's not our money anyway. IINM the AFL foots the entire bill for the salary cap so it was never truly "our" money to begin with. It was money we had been given on proviso we use at least 95% of it each year in player salary payments. We just decided to use a largish part of our allocation on one player.

Now it might be that we were struggling to fill our 95% obligation anyway over the period 2014-2016 (a typical contract horizon will be 2-3 years). I seem to remember that was the case but perhaps others have a clearer recollection and can enlighten us. If it was the case then the $7m was partly "funny money" anyway, i.e. an unallocated amount that we had to use on someone ... anyone. The joy and sense of triumph at the time we secured Boyd (after losing Griffen, Higgins etc) gave us something to cling onto after a few seasons from hell.

It's easy to be critical with 20/20 hindsight but on balance it was a bold and smart move at the time. It announced us as a destination club (of sorts) and it revived spirits right across the western suburbs.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

The Boyd contract is good in my honest opinion. With the benefit of hindsight I'd still take it without any hesitation.

That hole in our hearts when Griff walked out was filled by Boyd. Man that could of been very, very dark. 2016 GF is one of the greatest moments I've experienced outside of family. That s**t is invaluable. Morris tackles, Boyd roosts from the centre square. Man... I'd add another year and million and still not hesitate a second.

 

[BrisDog]

how can you cure herniation?, once the nucleus fluid has perforated the disc there is no putting it back in.

Correct. Certain poses (cobra) will push the herniation off the sciatic nerve depending on location of the herniation. Without sciatic pain there is no problem. We all have herniatic disks, every Son of the West.

 

[Struggle]

Come on mate i find this very hard to believe. I have been reliably informed by all and sundry on this forum, and indeed in this very thread that Tommy cannot mark the ball. Therefore, the bolded above just simply could not have happened.

Have got seen the Futurama episode where Fry borrows the devils hands so he can play an instrument at a concert? That's what I'm assuming happened with Tom in October. They were not his hands

 

[BRWB]

I don't think working out how much he's been paid per game is the way to look at it.

He is flesh, bone and sinew like a thoroughbred racehorse. You can pay a million or two for a yearling that's bred in the purple and they can break down never to race again after two starts. That's a million per race. Was it good value? Of course not (unless you can send the horse to stud) but that's the random luck of horse racing. You don't say it cost me a million per race. You say I paid a shitload of money for a great prospect and he could never get on the track. Shrug shoulders and start again.

Same applies with footballers. There have been some classy players who never really got their career started due to injuries and clubs have blown high draft picks getting almost nothing in return.

When we traded for Tom Boyd we didn't know he'd develop serious back problems and have problems with depression. GWS might not have known it at that stage either.

What we do know is that he's failed to become a gun forward or a gun ruckman in the games he's played since. What we don't know is if he'd racked up 100 games by now would he finally be developing his skills so that he was marking more and kicking more goals? Maybe, maybe not, but we'll never know if he can't get on the park.

What makes all this bearable is the huge role he played in our first flag for 62 years. So on the one hand we have the argument that he cost us $100,000 a game (expensive!). On the other we have the argument that $5m is a bargain if it turns out to be the decisive factor in us winning a flag. People look at value for money in different ways and it may depend on what point they are trying to make rather than any genuine attempt to do some accurate accounting.

The final point to make is that it's not our money anyway. IINM the AFL foots the entire bill for the salary cap so it was never truly "our" money to begin with. It was money we had been given on proviso we use at least 95% of it each year in player salary payments. We just decided to use a largish part of our allocation on one player.

Now it might be that we were struggling to fill our 95% obligation anyway over the period 2014-2016 (a typical contract horizon will be 2-3 years). I seem to remember that was the case but perhaps others have a clearer recollection and can enlighten us. If it was the case then the $7m was partly "funny money" anyway, i.e. an unallocated amount that we had to use on someone ... anyone. The joy and sense of triumph at the time we secured Boyd (after losing Griffen, Higgins etc) gave us something to cling onto after a few seasons from hell.

It's easy to be critical with 20/20 hindsight but on balance it was a bold and smart move at the time. It announced us as a destination club (of sorts) and it revived spirits right across the western suburbs.

Agree with all that and I would have recruited Tom as well and wouldnt have done anything differently...at the time.

But that isnt the question. Its what is to be done going fwd with Tom.

Its still suck and see, but the lollie is getting smaller.

 

[Dry Rot]

Watching the 2016 GF on TV, Boyd was the clear Norm Smith winner for me.

I was at the PF up here in Sydney the week before, and after Rough was rooted we wouldn't have won that game either without Boyd.

But I have a solution for the current situation.

Boyd goes away for a few months, without salary, and gets himself right.

Meanwhile, I'll take his salary and role at the Dogs.

I'll jog around the boundary, sign autographs, hang out around the club and make the odd pointless club website video wearing a Boyd face mask and standing on a milk crate, or two.

Problem solved.

 

[ScragCity]

Agree with all that and I would have recruited Tom as well and wouldnt have done anything differently...at the time.

But that isnt the question. Its what is to be done going fwd with Tom.

Its still suck and see, but the lollie is getting smaller.

I think the answer of what to do with Tom is incredibly obvious as we don’t really have any choice. We’ll continue trying to rehab him and get him on the park (most likely at VFL level) and then when his contract is over we will amicably part ways.
We are contractually obliged to pay Tom the entirety of his contract and there is no realistic way of getting out of that.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I think the answer of what to do with Tom is incredibly obvious as we don’t really have any choice. We’ll continue trying to rehab him and get him on the park (most likely at VFL level) and then when his contract is over we will amicably part ways.
We are contractually obliged to pay Tom the entirety of his contract and there is no realistic way of getting out of that.

True except for the bold part which is just one option at the negative end of the spectrum. He could also get better and play 8 more years of good footy for us. Or anything between that range.

 

[AJARWA]

Watching the 2016 GF on TV, Boyd was the clear Norm Smith winner for me.

I was at the PF up here in Sydney the week before, and after Rough was rooted we wouldn't have won that game either without Boyd.

But I have a solution for the current situation.

Boyd goes away for a few months, without salary, and gets himself right.

Meanwhile, I'll take his salary and role at the Dogs.

I'll jog around the boundary, sign autographs, hang out around the club and make the odd pointless club website video wearing a Boyd face mask and standing on a milk crate, or two.

Problem solved.

I think your idea of offering him a break should be on the table. He's struggled mentally. He's struggling physically. He's probably had expectations on him to play AFL since he was 15 if not younger. He's still got plenty of time to make it if he wants to. Don't see how it would hurt to have a proper break and come back firing for the pre season. Or decide he's done with it all (and who'd blame him... he's cashed up, has a premiership and nearly a norm smith).

I hope he comes good but right now both parties should be considering all options.

 

[AJARWA]

I think the answer of what to do with Tom is incredibly obvious as we don’t really have any choice. We’ll continue trying to rehab him and get him on the park (most likely at VFL level) and then when his contract is over we will amicably part ways.
We are contractually obliged to pay Tom the entirety of his contract and there is no realistic way of getting out of that.

Fairly sure we were contractually obliged to pay Cloke and Red as well. But I'm not sure we did when they retired early.

 

[ScragCity]

We were contractually obliged to pay Cloke and Red as well. But I'm not sure we did when they retired early.

Wrong. If its mutually agreed on by both parties a contract can be terminated, which was the case with Cloke. Redpath I believe was out of contract. Tom could theoretically choose to retire but it seems very unlikely considering the amount of money he would be giving up.

 

[Next Waiting]

Watching the 2016 GF on TV, Boyd was the clear Norm Smith winner for me.

I was at the PF up here in Sydney the week before, and after Rough was rooted we wouldn't have won that game either without Boyd.

But I have a solution for the current situation.

Boyd goes away for a few months, without salary, and gets himself right.

Meanwhile, I'll take his salary and role at the Dogs.

I'll jog around the boundary, sign autographs, hang out around the club and make the odd pointless club website video wearing a Boyd face mask and standing on a milk crate, or two.

Problem solved.

And hand reduction surgery? In for a penny...

 

[AJARWA]

Wrong. If its mutually agreed on by both parties a contract can be terminated, which was the case with Cloke. Redpath I believe was out of contract. Tom could theoretically choose to retire but it seems very unlikely considering the amount of money he would be giving up.

"If its mutually agreed on by both parties a contract can be terminated"... exactly my point. I don't think anyone is suggesting that an appropriate action would be for the club to be the party who breaks contract and get into a legal and pr battle with Tom and his manager. In any event there would have to be a clause in the contract which allows the club to take that avenue.

I'm not so sure that it's "very unlikely" Tom would choose to retire early, particularly if the back issues continue or mental health raises its head again. He has a premiership, nearly a norm smith and publicly stated he's seeking an identity outside of football. All the news I've read on Tom's contract is that it was front loaded, so he's also cashed up.

It's all a bit presumptuous at this point but I do hope the club is looking at all its options in case the situation doesn't improve by end of year.

 

[AngryFruitSalad]

Injury update - bulging tinnies

 

[dogwatch]

Injury update - bulging tinnies

Thanks for that enlightening photo.

If you'd bothered to look you'd have seen that it was posted in this very thread a couple of weeks ago and discussed at length. We don't need you rocking up taking pot shots at the club or any of its players.

Now take your snide scandal-mongering somewhere else and piss off.

 

[Antares]

For me, his career was finished in the game against Melbourne last year at Etihad. Neville Jetta outmarked him in like 5/5 marking contests despite a 20cm+ difference in height.

Boyd will never make it. Schache is the one we need to place our hope into.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Injury update - bulging tinnies

Headline - 23 year old footballer drinks a beer during off season!!!

 

[footyfan000001]

AFL article out this arvo suggesting he was on a mil last season. Surely that was the last season of him being on 1mil +?

 

[Sharkey66]

AFL article out this arvo suggesting he was on a mil last season. Surely that was the last season of him being on 1mil +?

They have as much idea as us probably less. they are just guessing and tom is an easy option.

 

[BrisDog]

Without Tom Boyd our last hero of the West was Danny Delre (kicked 8 in a Prelim 92). End thread.