MVP Tommy Boyd - The Grand Final Enigma

TMoney22

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Mason Cox is twice the footballer as Boyd. Easily. Think about that for a second.

Tom did his job, got paid and we are very thankful for it.

If he stays he should be on minimum $ otherwise move on... Quickly
 

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ScragCity

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Mason Cox is twice the footballer as Boyd. Easily. Think about that for a second.

Tom did his job, got paid and we are very thankful for it.

If he stays he should be on minimum $ otherwise move on... Quickly
He's got two seasons left after this on big bucks, unfortunately.
 

Johnny_Dogg4

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Mason Cox is twice the footballer as Boyd. Easily. Think about that for a second.

Tom did his job, got paid and we are very thankful for it.

If he stays he should be on minimum $ otherwise move on... Quickly
as stupid as that comment seems. sadly ATM id have cox ahead of boyd
 

gordo2016

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Mason Cox is twice the footballer as Boyd. Easily. Think about that for a second.

Tom did his job, got paid and we are very thankful for it.

If he stays he should be on minimum $ otherwise move on... Quickly
A 23 year old who has dominated a Grand Final when his team has not made one for 55 years and you want to move him on quickly. Good judges at the club don't share your opinion, of which we are all grateful for. And why the **** would you compare him to Mason Cox for? 28 years old and he has never taken 6 contested marks and kicked 3 goals in his life, let alone a GF. Don't be a dick.
 
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A 23 year old who has dominated a Grand Final when his team has not made one for 55 years and you want to move him on quickly. Good judges at the club don't share your opinion, of which we are all grateful for. And why the **** would you compare him to Mason Cox for? 28 years old and he has never taken 6 contested marks and kicked 3 goals in his life, let alone a GF. Don't be a dick.
You do realise Cox broke the record for most contested marks in a final last year? And kicked three goals? Not saying he’s a gun but the one stat you have rolled out is wrong.
 

WallyStringhaus

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A 23 year old who has dominated a Grand Final when his team has not made one for 55 years and you want to move him on quickly. Good judges at the club don't share your opinion, of which we are all grateful for. And why the **** would you compare him to Mason Cox for? 28 years old and he has never taken 6 contested marks and kicked 3 goals in his life, let alone a GF. Don't be a dick.
Whilst i dont agree with Cox being better than Boyd, he actually took 8 contested marks and kicked 3 goals in the Prelim last year...pretty impressive for a guy still learning the game.
 

gordo2016

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You do realise Cox broke the record for most contested marks in a final last year? And kicked three goals? Not saying he’s a gun but the one stat you have rolled out is wrong.
I knew he took a few contested marks but did not realise it was that many to break the record. So I stand corrected. Anyway, I get tired of people having a crack at Boyd,. Players of that size and stature who can produce the best games of their lives in GF's don't grow on trees. Boyd is still only 23 years old , but you would never know it from the way some people talk on here. If it was two or three years down the track and Boyd was still struggling to play consistently week after week and produce his best, judge him then. Now is not the time.
 

ScragCity

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I knew he took a few contested marks but did not realise it was that many to break the record. So I stand corrected. Anyway, I get tired of people having a crack at Boyd,. Players of that size and stature who can produce the best games of their lives in GF's don't grow on trees. Boyd is still only 23 years old , but you would never know it from the way some people talk on here. If it was two or three years down the track and Boyd was still struggling to play consistently week after week and produce his best, judge him then. Now is not the time.
And when he's 28 you'll be saying "but he's only 28, talls take time!"
 

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BRWB

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Don't understand all the talk of Tom Boyd taking contested marks. IMO that is setting the bar way too high. Before we talk contested marks Tom needs to:

1 - Get his mind and body right. A big ask given Tom has only ever played every second game on average. And has at least two nasty chronic conditions that are almost impossible from which to fully recover.

2 - Actually get a game. English and Trengove are better rucks. The Dogs got demonstrably better last yr when Boyd stopped playing and Trengove went into the ruck. Meanwhile English already comfortably doubles Boyds marks per game. While Naughton and Scahche are better fwds with both being more mobile, better marks and better set shots.

3 - Tom just needs to learn to catch the ball ie uncontested marks. He is too immobile to get into space much and when he does often spills easy uncontested marks. An ever falling marks per game per season says he is getting worse not better. An average of 2 marks per game says Tom rarely marks it full stop.

So all this talk of contested marks is getting way ahead of ourselves and probably heaping unfair pressure on a guy who afterall is only in his sixth year in the system...
 

doggiesmrx

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Little concerned what we do with this guy now with Naughton playing fwd. Really hoping he’s not on a million this year.. (Pretty sure it’s under that now). Just needs to be more mobile up fwd otherwise Naughton is going to keep getting the nod.
 
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I knew he took a few contested marks but did not realise it was that many to break the record. So I stand corrected. Anyway, I get tired of people having a crack at Boyd,. Players of that size and stature who can produce the best games of their lives in GF's don't grow on trees. Boyd is still only 23 years old , but you would never know it from the way some people talk on here. If it was two or three years down the track and Boyd was still struggling to play consistently week after week and produce his best, judge him then. Now is not the time.
Why is now not the time? Players should constantly be judged.

He was rightly judged a hero in 2016. He is now judged to be an incredibly well paid player who can’t get on the park.

Given his hefty long-term contract, the club are right to persist with him and try get the most out of the player. I do wonder what would have happened if his contract had been up this year. Would we have matched an offer from Saints or someone for example?

If he went on to be a star elsewhere, the club may regret it, but does anyone seriously think he has the ability to do that?

I can only judge Boyd from the games I’ve seen him play. I hope I’m wrong but I can’t see him making a significant impact at the club in the future.
 

dogwatch

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Little concerned what we do with this guy now with Naughton playing fwd. Really hoping he’s not on a million this year.. (Pretty sure it’s under that now). Just needs to be more mobile up fwd otherwise Naughton is going to keep getting the nod.
Actually I hope he IS still on a million a year. Imagine how much more we can do when that million goes back into our consolidated TPP allocation!

Not worried about the argument of whether he's value for money or not. Right now he's clearly not because he's not playing games and anyway that all stems from a decision made 5 years ago so no point anguishing too much over it now.

In my view it's all positives going forward. Either he clicks and we have a good-to-very-good player, or he doesn't and in 2 years time we'll have a shitload more money to spend on other players.
 

ScragCity

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Don't understand all the talk of Tom Boyd taking contested marks. IMO that is setting the bar way too high. Before we talk contested marks Tom needs to:

1 - Get his mind and body right. A big ask given Tom has only ever played every second game on average. And has at least two nasty chronic conditions that are almost impossible from which to fully recover.

2 - Actually get a game. English and Trengove are better rucks. The Dogs got demonstrably better last yr when Boyd stopped playing and Trengove went into the ruck. Meanwhile English already comfortably doubles Boyds marks per game. While Naughton and Scahche are better fwds with both being more mobile, better marks and better set shots.

3 - Tom just needs to learn to catch the ball ie uncontested marks. He is too immobile to get into space much and when he does often spills easy uncontested marks. An ever falling marks per game per season says he is getting worse not better. An average of 2 marks per game says Tom rarely marks it full stop.

So all this talk of contested marks is getting way ahead of ourselves and probably heaping unfair pressure on a guy who afterall is only in his sixth year in the system...
Yeah it's not like there's players who can take contested marks in their first year. It takes at least 15-20 years in the system before a player usually starts taking contested marks. And what Boyd lacks in his marking he makes up for with his hitout dominance, scintillating burst speed, elite endurance and exquisite skills.
 

Norm De Guerre

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Little concerned what we do with this guy now with Naughton playing fwd. Really hoping he’s not on a million this year.. (Pretty sure it’s under that now). Just needs to be more mobile up fwd otherwise Naughton is going to keep getting the nod.
Its quite simple. When he resumes playing he, like every other player outside the perceived best 22 will have to work his arse off and push his way into the side. If he is doing that somebody else will make way and team balance will look after itself. If he 's not he will languish in the twos for the remainder of his contract and be consigned to history as a club immortal, sports trivia night question and a never-ending Bigfooty discussion. What money he is on for the rest of his contract shouldn't be of any concern now, it's a sunk cost.
 

Hard Ball Get

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2 - Actually get a game. English and Trengove are better rucks. The Dogs got demonstrably better last yr when Boyd stopped playing and Trengove went into the ruck. Meanwhile English already comfortably doubles Boyds marks per game. While Naughton and Scahche are better fwds with both being more mobile, better marks and better set shots.
You reckon? I would rather Boyd in the ruck than Trengove and although English will clearly be a better ruck, I'm not sold he's there yet. I would prefer Boyd inside 50 to Shache too. Shache has a fair upside, but again I don't think he's there yet.
Ideally I'd have English starting ruck with Boyd forward alternating.

I think number 1 is mentally get right, number 2 get the back right and then hopefully we will see him at his best - whatever level that is.
 

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Its quite simple. When he resumes playing he, like every other player outside the perceived best 22 will have to work his arse off and push his way into the side. If he is doing that somebody else will make way and team balance will look after itself. If he 's not he will languish in the twos for the remainder of his contract and be consigned to history as a club immortal, sports trivia night question and a never-ending Bigfooty discussion. What money he is on for the rest of his contract shouldn't be of any concern now, it's a sunk cost.
Schache fell in our lap and Naughton came from the clouds.

Boyd isn't best 22 and we should be over the moon that we have those two players developing together, not lamenting that the massive trade that netted us a flag is suddenly not going well.
 

cecil

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You reckon? I would rather Boyd in the ruck than Trengove and although English will clearly be a better ruck, I'm not sold he's there yet. I would prefer Boyd inside 50 to Shache too. Shache has a fair upside, but again I don't think he's there yet.
Ideally I'd have English starting ruck with Boyd forward alternating.

I think number 1 is mentally get right, number 2 get the back right and then hopefully we will see him at his best - whatever level that is.
You're replying to one of a group of posters who consistently don't rate Boyd. I think Boyd is probably our best ruck when fit too, even if English should overtake him. The Boyd issue is a great example of recency bias. People don't rate him because of what he's done in the last year. Yet he's injured, he shouldn't be judged on that. Even since 2016 he's been decent in patches. He was comfortably our best tall in early 2017 before having his time off (although not to GF 2016 heights obviously).

For what it's worth I can see him replacing English in the best 22 towards the back end of the year when he tires. I could also see us playing all of Naughton, Schache, Boyd and Trengove in the same team. Schache plays relatively small and high up the ground for a CHF, and Trengove and Naughton can both drop back too.
 

ossie_21

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Just glad he’s out on the training track with the other boys with a smile on his face, hopefully he’ll be available for selection again soon.

The new 6-6-6 rule will hopefully help him by giving more space & less chance of the 2 on 1 contests he has to deal with. Just need the kicks to be put right on his luscious hair.
 
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