MVP Tommy Boyd - The Grand Final Enigma

perro_loco

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This thread is setting up perfectly for Boyd to come back and forge out a great career. And the narrative will turn to how great it was we looked after our own and supported mental health as genuinely as a shattered leg would be. Conveniently ignoring the sniping.

The club offered Boyd the contract. Zero signs the club has any financial problems from it.

Boyd played a fantastic finals series and dominated the GF. The only premiership I've been alive for.

Boyd has openly acknowledged he's been suffering from major mental health problems. And more recently difficult back issues.

Awesomely Boyd appears to recovering.

Boyd is 23 and is a very big unit.

Boyd's in-game decision making and skills are good. He's got a footy brain and generally good execution. His ruck and midfield abilities are surprisingly good and were unexpected.

Boyd does have a weakness with holding marks to date. He gets hands to it but they dont stick often enough. He could also play with more aggression and confidence. Not hard to see a potential connection between these problems and major mental health issues. The impact of confidence (or lack of) has such a huge bearing on sporting performance but most people ignore cause it's fluffy.

The only thing I'm rooting for with Boyd is to get well and do his best. Just like I did for Clay and his knees.

He's one of us. He came to us in our darkest hour (Griff walking out). He's a fallen premiership hero with a massive chance of recovering at only 23.

I get sick of the sniping and the passive digs at him. It's poor taste and scummy.
Well said. Kudos to you House of Dhal.
 

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Munnez

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Big Tom Boyd is a difficult one to accurately judge at this point in time. I think it's a little premature to write him off just yet. If he can get his body right and still can't make the grade then he will definitely be facing the chop.
I feel that he can still have an impact for us if he can get fit. Maybe it's just hopeful that all the pro recruiters couldn't get it so wrong as he was a No 1 pick. Then I see Jack Watts but that was Melbourne and their recruiting history isn't great until recently.
Personally I would like to see Boydy make it so we can continue to build towards sustained success. And who knows where that could end up.
 

TMoney22

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A 23 year old who has dominated a Grand Final when his team has not made one for 55 years and you want to move him on quickly. Good judges at the club don't share your opinion, of which we are all grateful for. And why the **** would you compare him to Mason Cox for? 28 years old and he has never taken 6 contested marks and kicked 3 goals in his life, let alone a GF. Don't be a dick.
i dont like it either but its reality. Ask any neutral fan and they would choose Cox more often than Boyd. his grand final performance wont help us going forward, get over that.
 

TMoney22

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This comment is highly inaccurate and factually wrong. TBoyd anytime for Cox. No Premiership BECAUSE HE CANNOT WIN BBBBIIIIIGGGGG GAMES! TBOYD WON THAT GAME FOR US! PERIOD
why is it factually wrong? its my opinion and one many outside of bulldogs share.

no doubt about the GF but since then you can say boyd has been better when playing.
 

flamethrower

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I have never understood the negativity and snide remarks about Tom and his contract from supposed die hard Bulldog fanatics.

Signing Tom away from the AFL created plastic franchise (AKA The Great Waste of Space) really was a sliding doors moment in the history of our often maligned football club.

It has been a huge success both on and off field. It directly led to the breaking of a 62 year premiership drought, something that was nothing more than a fantasy for fans for decades.

Perhaps even more significantly, the Boyd signing and subsequent premiership was the catalyst for the club achieving unprecedented financial security off field, amazing for a club that had been on the brink of extinction multiple times in its history.

Considering these points, it is very difficult to see how the acquisition of Tom wasn't a huge coup for the club and how he isn't worth every cent that was paid for him.
 

AJARWA

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Once we start moving away from the old-fashioned "oh we should PAY players what they DESERVE" and put things through the analysis of "what's the best way to use our salary cap, in combination with the draft, moving forward as a form of list strategy" the contract is nowhere near as bad. Also, it's a daft way way to look at list management. The former's an old-fashioned way of looking at the game and it doesn't win you premierships. The latter wins you flags as a better strategy of, you know, winning games.
Not sure if you're speaking in general or directing comment at me. I can't see where I said that the club made a mistake in offering the initial contract.
 
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Hi all, long time lurker, decided to join in the convo. Grew up about 250 metres from Whitten Oval, which I used to sneak into as a child, initially for a laugh and later to watch the games.... Anyway, I’m absolutely of the opinion and am very confident that if he can get his body and mind right he will be the once in a generation player the bulldogs wanted when they got him. Its the 26-30 year old Tom Boyd I’m thinking of here - will be the stuff of nightmares for defenders...
 

doggies ftw

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I wouldnt mind trying all 3 of Schache, Naughty and Boyd up forward. Naughty is as good as a small when it comes to defensive pressure. Schache is as mobile as it comes and can play very high and Boyd can spend a lot of time in the ruck. Go short in defense and when Boyds rucking English is mobile enough to drop back and provide some tall cover so as to not clog the forward line. Our ball use going inside 50 is looking a hell of a lot better Naughty, Schache and Boyd is going to seriously stretch teams.

Yeah we might be a tad slow at ground level but guys like McLean, Gowers and Dicko provide elite pressure and our goals arent kicked by locking the ball inside our 50, our biggest strength is our repeat entries, Crozier and Wood etc cutting off the exiting kicks and sending it back in. When we've got a ball up inside 50 send one of Naughty or Schache to the goal square, Boyd or English takes the ruck and the other one along with one of Schache/Naughty go back to the 50/square and help Croz/Wood cut off any clearing kicks.

Not sold on it working myself but id like to at least see it tried.
 

Mofra

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When I was a toddler my Mum had to take me to the Doctor because I was getting these awful, throbbing headaches constantly. They did and MRI and then a couple of weeks later called us in to discuss the results. The Doctor said I have an abnormally large brain which was putting pressure on my skull. He said that my brain is 33% larger than a normal person. They had to drill a hole in my skull to drain some of the protective liquid around my brain to release the pressure. The Doctor said that my skull will grow to accommodate my brain and it did.

Just as I developed an abnormally large brain, I think for some reason or another Boyd's hands didn't develop to the size they were supposed to and as a result he has a lot of trouble marking the ball.
Just before I was born my spirit guide told me I could have either a large penis or a fantastic memory.

Can't remember what I chose...
 

dogwatch

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Just before I was born my spirit guide told me I could have either a large penis or a fantastic memory.

Can't remember what I chose...
It's a shame your spirit guide didn't also offer you super-hearing as an option. I think what he actually said was you could BE a large penis ...

... but of course you wouldn't remember that.
 

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Whoyagot

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Its quite simple. When he resumes playing he, like every other player outside the perceived best 22 will have to work his arse off and push his way into the side. If he is doing that somebody else will make way and team balance will look after itself. If he 's not he will languish in the twos for the remainder of his contract and be consigned to history as a club immortal, sports trivia night question and a never-ending Bigfooty discussion. What money he is on for the rest of his contract shouldn't be of any concern now, it's a sunk cost.
It absolutely is a concern. We have 10+ players we need to resign this year alone plus we need to prepare big deals for Naughton and Bont after their contracts are finished. This plus maybe luring a mature star recruit. Boyd should take a paycut like Wells at the pies. Otherwise list management is going to be that much harder.
 

ScragCity

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It absolutely is a concern. We have 10+ players we need to resign this year alone plus we need to prepare big deals for Naughton and Bont after their contracts are finished. This plus maybe luring a mature star recruit. Boyd should take a paycut like Wells at the pies. Otherwise list management is going to be that much harder.
You don't seem to understand that Boyd is in no way obligated to take a pay cut and we have absolutely no right to even suggest it to him. A contract is a contract. It was a gamble that either did or didn't pay off, depending on who you ask, but there's not a thing we can do about it now so it's not worth discussing or being concerned about.
 

BRWB

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Ok
You don't seem to understand that Boyd is in no way obligated to take a pay cut and we have absolutely no right to even suggest it to him. A contract is a contract. It was a gamble that either did or didn't pay off, depending on who you ask, but there's not a thing we can do about it now so it's not worth discussing or being concerned about.
And you aren't getting that contracts can be renegotiated.

Say Boyd is on $1.6m for the next two years. No reason we can't offer him a third year at $150k (still more than he'd make in the real world).

Nett outcome is his contract shrinks to $550k per yr from $800k.
 

ScragCity

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Ok


And you aren't getting that contracts can be renegotiated.

Say Boyd is on $1.6m for the next two years. No reason we can't offer him a third year at $150k (still more than he'd make in the real world).

Nett outcome is his contract shrinks to $550k per yr from $800k.
Give me some examples of when a player's contract has been renegotiated. His next contract will be offered based on his form and completely unrelated to what his previous contract was.
 

BRWB

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Give me some examples of when a player's contract has been renegotiated. His next contract will be offered based on his form and completely unrelated to what his previous contract was.
Its just obvious. Cloke took a payout that was less his full contract. Other players have extended their contract mid contract.

You are making assumptions that aren't true. Bryan Lake took a paycut but a got a longer contract when he went to Hawthorn.
 

ScragCity

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Its just obvious. Cloke took a payout that was less his full contract. Other players have extended their contract mid contract.

You are making assumptions that aren't true. Bryan Lake took a paycut but a got a longer contract when he went to Hawthorn.
It's different when a player changes clubs. That's the player and team mutually ending a contract and a new contract with the new club being drawn up. I'm not making any assumptions, I'm explaining to you how things work.
 

doggies ftw

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Ok


And you aren't getting that contracts can be renegotiated.

Say Boyd is on $1.6m for the next two years. No reason we can't offer him a third year at $150k (still more than he'd make in the real world).

Nett outcome is his contract shrinks to $550k per yr from $800k.
Mate you cant be serious can ya? 150k? Thats like 40% of an average AFL contract, or pretty much what an 18 yo draftee makes these days. Boyd is at his absolute lowest value right now and hes still worth more than double that easily.

If he extended his contract right now at all (especially not for 150k) at his lowest value, his manager would be quite possibly the dumbest manager in the history of pro sports
 

BRWB

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Mate you cant be serious can ya? 150k? Thats like 40% of an average AFL contract, or pretty much what an 18 yo draftee makes these days. Boyd is at his absolute lowest value right now and hes still worth more than double that easily.

If he extended his contract right now at all (especially not for 150k) at his lowest value, his manager would be quite possibly the dumbest manager in the history of pro sports
If I was Boud id wait another yr. But honestly, if he cant or doesnt play for a big chunk of the next two yrs 150k may look good in hindsight rather than being delisted and living off bank interest.

Alternatively, some players take less in order to build a power list. Who knows if Boyd has a similar mindset to that of the underpaid champs of the recent Hawk and Cat teams. He may be like Buddy and try to squeeze every cent out of his employer.
 

True Dog

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Hi all, long time lurker, decided to join in the convo. Grew up about 250 metres from Whitten Oval, which I used to sneak into as a child, initially for a laugh and later to watch the games.... Anyway, I’m absolutely of the opinion and am very confident that if he can get his body and mind right he will be the once in a generation player the bulldogs wanted when they got him. Its the 26-30 year old Tom Boyd I’m thinking of here - will be the stuff of nightmares for defenders...
Agree CD the problem is many on here can’t see 3 weeks ahead let alone 3 years?
 

threenewpadlocks

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If I was Boud id wait another yr. But honestly, if he cant or doesnt play for a big chunk of the next two yrs 150k may look good in hindsight rather than being delisted and living off bank interest.

Alternatively, some players take less in order to build a power list. Who knows if Boyd has a similar mindset to that of the underpaid champs of the recent Hawk and Cat teams. He may be like Buddy and try to squeeze every cent out of his employer.
Are you seriously of the belief that just the mere minor back injury would be enough that he barely plays the next two years, and that then, subsequently, he's not good enough to be on an AFL list anywhere by 2022? That truly something. I get that there's not rating Boyd, but proposing that not a single AFL club would offer him a list spot in 2022 is outright ridiculous.
 

BRWB

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Are you seriously of the belief that just the mere minor back injury would be enough that he barely plays the next two years, and that then, subsequently, he's not good enough to be on an AFL list anywhere by 2022? That truly something. I get that there's not rating Boyd, but proposing that not a single AFL club would offer him a list spot in 2022 is outright ridiculous.
If is the key word. I dont know that he will play much in the next two yrs. And neither do you. If Boyd plays say 10 mediocre games in the next two yrs I doubt there would be much interest.

And try having a serious back injury before describing them as 'mere'. And Boyd problems aren't confined to his back anyway.

Plus he would need to show enough to get a game even if he is fit.

Time will tell.

Hope he rips it apart and wins the Coleman.
 

threenewpadlocks

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If is the key word. I dont know that he will play much in the next two yrs. And neither do you. If Boyd plays say 10 mediocre games in the next two yrs I doubt there would be much interest.

And try having a serious back injury before describing them as 'mere'. And Boyd problems aren't confined to his back anyway.

Plus he would need to show enough to get a game even if he is fit.

Time will tell.

Hope he rips it apart and wins the Coleman.
More it's a pointless suggestion because there's a lot of qualifiers, all highly unlikely, before you offer the suggestion.
It's like saying if we win another three consecutive flags, how much should we pay Beveridge after those three years to stop other clubs poaching him?
 

Libba39

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Looking at the size of Witts and Peter Wright made me think we really could use this fella back in the side.

I know people are hooked on Naughton forward but I'm not. I'd much rather have a settled backline with Naughton down there.

Schache may never be a contested forward beast. Seems more of a lead up player to me.

All the while Toyd is waiting in the wings. He can stand at full forward and take the biggest defender, change with English in the ruck and is a much better foil for Gowers.

I think we'll hit our straps with him back 8n the team.

FB: Naughton
HB: Cordy
RUC: English
HF: Schache
FF: Boyd
 
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