Mega Thread Tony Abbott

Status
Not open for further replies.

Footy Smarts

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Posts
6,696
Likes
9,481
AFL Club
Geelong
One would think this hard the way you carry on. In reality it is not. Tear up Gonski, stop NBN, stop disability scheme. Three very simple things. Each of which will cost a vast sum and which are not only not necessary but a waste of cash.

As for your ranting re racism, why is it that fanbois somehow forget which party brought in mandatory detention? The usual hypocrisy.
1) The NBN is an investment which generates a return. Replacing it with a cheaper scheme that is not economically viable will hurt the budget not help it.
2) He's promised to deliver the NDIS. Surely after the last few years you're not saying that Abbott should mislead the electorate in such a way.

I also hope you tell a disabled person who struggles to get regular assistance to do something as basic as having a shower that the NDIS is "not necessary".
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,959
Likes
6,230
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
1) The NBN is an investment which generates a return. Replacing it with a cheaper scheme that is not economically viable will hurt the budget not help it.
There is every chance it will return less than the cost of borrowing (every chance it wont actually make money) Not only that but you completely ignore (again) the opportunity cost of not using the same cash to generate far greater returns elsewhere. ie cutting the top rate of tax would likely generate returns > 30%

2) He's promised to deliver the NDIS. Surely after the last few years you're not saying that Abbott should mislead the electorate in such a way.
Depends on what he promised and how much it will cost.

I also hope you tell a disabled person who struggles to get regular assistance to do something as basic as having a shower that the NDIS is "not necessary".
We dont need a whole new expensive scheme at $15bn a year to achieve that.
 

Footy Smarts

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Posts
6,696
Likes
9,481
AFL Club
Geelong
There is every chance it will return less than the cost of borrowing (every chance it wont actually make money) Not only that but you completely ignore (again) the opportunity cost of not using the same cash to generate far greater returns elsewhere. ie cutting the top rate of tax would likely generate returns > 30%
Haha the old trickle down theory. You're a funny one.

Depends on what he promised and how much it will cost.
Well this is pretty unequivocal:

" I’ve said it before ladies and gentlemen, I want to say it again to you. When it comes to the National Disability Insurance Scheme, I am Doctor Yes, and, yes, there may be some who accuse me and the Coalition I lead of negativity, well, there is no negativity in the Coalition towards the National Disability Insurance Scheme.

...

This is too important to get wrong. This is too important to become a bone of party political contention.

I pledge myself to achieving a National Disability Insurance Scheme and we will get there together."

http://www.tonyabbott.com.au/Latest...National-Disability-Services-CEOs-Sydney.aspx

We dont need a whole new expensive scheme at $15bn a year to achieve that.
Well it does require a whole heap more funding whether or not it's a brand new scheme. Personally I'll take the productivity commission's opinion over a random forum poster.
 

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,959
Likes
6,230
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Haha the old trickle down theory. You're a funny one.
Whilst you continue to believe in the Keynesian magic pudding fantasy world some of us deal with reality. Here is the latest dose (and the third tax rise in the UK that has produced negative net revenue)

http://www.adamsmith.org/blog?f[0]=im_field_issue:5772

2010-11 figures now released by HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) show that the rise in Capital Gains Tax (CGT) was a failure. Meant to raise more revenue, in fact it raised less.
CGT was raised from 18% to 28% for most taxpayers (entrepreneurs’ relief stayed at 10%) in June 2010, nearly three months deep into the tax year

There was a 76% drop in normal disposals (taking 18% and 28% together for post-23rd June figures, because figures are not available for the equivalent split for pre-June). Clearly, many people sought to realise gains before the rate increased, knowing that the Coalition Agreement committed the Government to a sharp increase in CGT rate. There was also a 34% drop in 10% ER disposals, probably because entrepreneurs feared further tightening.
However, this highlights the fact that CGT is effectively a voluntary tax, paid only when people choose to dispose of assets. If they perceive rates to be too high, they choose to keep assets rather than dispose of them. Only a few people are forced to sell assets – many of them elderly people who build up assets throughout their lives and then cash them in to live on.

Personally I'll take the productivity commission's opinion over a random forum poster.
It is the PC that says it will cost $15bn.
 

Footy Smarts

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Posts
6,696
Likes
9,481
AFL Club
Geelong
Whilst you continue to believe in the Keynesian magic pudding fantasy world some of us deal with reality. Here is the latest dose (and the third tax rise in the UK that has produced negative net revenue)

http://www.adamsmith.org/blog?f[0]=im_field_issue:5772

2010-11 figures now released by HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) show that the rise in Capital Gains Tax (CGT) was a failure. Meant to raise more revenue, in fact it raised less.
CGT was raised from 18% to 28% for most taxpayers (entrepreneurs’ relief stayed at 10%) in June 2010, nearly three months deep into the tax year

There was a 76% drop in normal disposals (taking 18% and 28% together for post-23rd June figures, because figures are not available for the equivalent split for pre-June). Clearly, many people sought to realise gains before the rate increased, knowing that the Coalition Agreement committed the Government to a sharp increase in CGT rate. There was also a 34% drop in 10% ER disposals, probably because entrepreneurs feared further tightening.
However, this highlights the fact that CGT is effectively a voluntary tax, paid only when people choose to dispose of assets. If they perceive rates to be too high, they choose to keep assets rather than dispose of them. Only a few people are forced to sell assets – many of them elderly people who build up assets throughout their lives and then cash them in to live on.
Raising taxes during a downturn isn't exactly Keynesian...

Also in that particular situation you're looking very short-term in what should be a long-term pay-off. Of course if you advertise that CGT will increase people will cash-in their investments before the increase. Hence there will be a time thereafter where lower amounts are cashed in. However in the long-run there won't be significantly less disposing of assets hence the CGT take will increase.

It is the PC that says it will cost $15bn.
Yes and they strongly recommend doing it due to the economic and social impacts of such a decision.
 

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,959
Likes
6,230
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Yes and they strongly recommend doing it due to the economic and social impacts of such a decision.
Yes but as everyone is well aware vast numbers on the disability pension are not particularly disabled but are there as it pays more than UB (and it hides unemployment) Much of the money needed can be sorted by getting them back in to work or back on to unemployment benefits. We dont need to spend $15bn.

Also in that particular situation you're looking very short-term in what should be a long-term pay-off.
Unlikely. Just as a top rate of 50p wouldnt produce any more revenue in the long term. Just as the non dom tax caused a loss of tax revenue. Time after time after time we see taxes causes a net loss of revenue. Yet still the Keynesian fanbois scoff at the Laffer Curve.

As for tax rises for the well off see Krugman.
 

yibbida

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 5, 2004
Posts
3,807
Likes
1,106
Location
In a House by the Sea
AFL Club
Carlton
I like your post but that will just never happen, Asylum Seekers are not an issue for SE Asian countries (and their governments) because that is where they do not want to end up.
It is an issue all over the world, SE Asian countries included. It seems Thailand has adopted "Stop the Boats".

http://asiancorrespondent.com/99467...military-removed-engine-resulting-in-97-dead/

Burmese asylum seekers rescued by Sri Lanka’s navy last week said they floated at sea for 25 days and 97 people died of starvation after Thailand’s navy intercepted them and forcibly removed their boat’s engine. The Thai navy has denied the allegation.
 

nut

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Posts
16,924
Likes
6,868
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
One would think this hard the way you carry on. In reality it is not. Tear up Gonski, stop NBN, stop disability scheme. Three very simple things. Each of which will cost a vast sum and which are not only not necessary but a waste of cash.

As for your ranting re racism, why is it that fanbois somehow forget which party brought in mandatory detention? The usual hypocrisy.
So Gonski, the NBN and the disability scheme are waste of money.... but compensating voters for the Carbon tax that he is going to get rid of is perfectly ok?
 

GuruJane

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Posts
15,536
Likes
1,667
Location
home of the mighty sa
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Hawthorn, Tottenham
It's an idea, clearly something is wrong with Australia's asylum policy and quite frankly it's gone way be beyond anything that any decent society should even think about using as a political football. TPV's will not solve this problem, it's not 2003 any more and Tony Abbott is not John Howard's arsehole. Fact is neither party has the policies to solve this problem.
I'd don't know whether my idea would work but at least it is trying to think beyond the current paradigm.
What's your problem? Aren't you happy 30K since 2008, 2500 arriving a month outside monsoon season, no limits provided A/S cashed up enough to pay people smugglers?

If you want to cut out the dangerous leaky boat leg, then the most efficient way is for Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin to run connecting flights from Jakarta International airport and Kuala Lumpur direct to Australia. Bookings could then be made by A/S at the start of the journey (Dohar, Kuwait, wherever). Bins would be provided in transit lounge for A/S to discard their passports.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

noddy

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Posts
17,745
Likes
3,168
Location
Land of the Big Red Cloud
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
/The Bays/Man U
The worry for Australia is not Tony Abbott, but the mere fact that both sides of politics is unable to provide a viable alternative.
I put it down in part to the phenomenon of the twitter, facebook, reality shows etc craze & sadly slogans along with those who use them to full effect are here to stay.
 

mantis

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 9, 2001
Posts
36,917
Likes
1,072
Location
Away from redneck country
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Bombers
Yes but as everyone is well aware vast numbers on the disability pension are not particularly disabled but are there as it pays more than UB (and it hides unemployment) Much of the money needed can be sorted by getting them back in to work or back on to unemployment benefits. We dont need to spend $15bn.



Unlikely. Just as a top rate of 50p wouldnt produce any more revenue in the long term. Just as the non dom tax caused a loss of tax revenue. Time after time after time we see taxes causes a net loss of revenue. Yet still the Keynesian fanbois scoff at the Laffer Curve.

As for tax rises for the well off see Krugman.
You understand that the disability pension is higher, because they have to pay for medications & frequent visits to Doctors & Specialists.
 

pazza

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Posts
31,476
Likes
5,414
Location
Hoppers Crossing
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Liverpool
He won't be able to remove the Carbon Tax. The Greens and labor senators will make sure of that furphy.

He can't remove the NBN. He knows this.

So the cuts will be - ready for it - massive cuts to the public service. Therefore he's actually going increase our low level of unemployment on a massive scale..much like Campbell Dumdum in QLD, Terrible Ted in Victoria and Barry O'Failure in NSW to make the cuts.

This will have a huge impact. How many families are going to suffer as a result of these cuts? Thousands.

Aaah Tone - Australia will be inefficient and worse off with you in charge. Laughing stock of the world. Welcome to a third world country.
 

RUNVS

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Posts
32,977
Likes
29,238
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
He won't be able to remove the Carbon Tax. The Greens and labor senators will make sure of that furphy.

He can't remove the NBN. He knows this.

So the cuts will be - ready for it - massive cuts to the public service. Therefore he's actually going increase our low level of unemployment on a massive scale..much like Campbell Dumdum in QLD, Terrible Ted in Victoria and Barry O'Failure in NSW to make the cuts.

This will have a huge impact. How many families are going to suffer as a result of these cuts? Thousands.

Aaah Tone - Australia will be inefficient and worse off with you in charge. Laughing stock of the world. Welcome to a third world country.
If a person works for the public sector and votes Liberal they are morons.
 

nut

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Posts
16,924
Likes
6,868
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
votes Liberal they are morons.
Thats better.....

If you work as teacher and vote liberal you are moron..police... nurse...constuction worker... builder.... retail worker... Airline pilot... and anyone who will be affected by Tones industrial relation changes that he wont reveal until after the election if he wins. Wonder what he will call AWA this time?
 

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,959
Likes
6,230
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
He won't be able to remove the Carbon Tax. The Greens and labor senators will make sure of that furphy.

He can't remove the NBN. He knows this.

So the cuts will be - ready for it - massive cuts to the public service. Therefore he's actually going increase our low level of unemployment on a massive scale..much like Campbell Dumdum in QLD, Terrible Ted in Victoria and Barry O'Failure in NSW to make the cuts.
One can only hope so. To think this will cause massive unemployment is ridiculous. It will be offset by the private sector. See the UK where 1m public servants are getting the chop and unemployment hasnt gone up.

Has anyone in the UK actually noticed they are gone? Nope. The reason why is blatantly obvious.
 

nut

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Posts
16,924
Likes
6,868
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
One can only hope so. To think this will cause massive unemployment is ridiculous. It will be offset by the private sector. See the UK where 1m public servants are getting the chop and unemployment hasnt gone up.

Has anyone in the UK actually noticed they are gone? Nope. The reason why is blatantly obvious.

Has taxes gone up???
 

nut

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Posts
16,924
Likes
6,868
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
Taxes have gone up as the last government left a massive budget deficit not least because they hired around 1m extra public servants and gave them big pay rises. The rest of society must now foot the bill.
So rasing taxes didnt increase unemployment? interesting.
 

nut

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Posts
16,924
Likes
6,868
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond

finders

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 24, 2004
Posts
6,078
Likes
349
Location
Brighton
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Cricket,Olympics,F1GP,Tennis,Boxing
Agreed but the fact remains that most journalists do not want to ask the tough questions. If it were up to me every journalist in the country would be very hard hitting and would go into every interview with a politician with the intention of making that politician cry.
Most of the journalists (sic) in Australia work for the Abbott cheer leading Murdoch gutter rags!

If phoney Tony copped the same relentless hammering day after day that Gillard gets from the News Ltd press he would also be unelectable.

Example:The days Milne said she was not supporting the ALP anymore the Huns headline on the front page was WE DONT TRUST YOU JULIA! Lets see how Abbott would go with headlines like that day after day in 70% of the nations print media.

All the LNP urgers and the suckers that the believe a LNP Abbott government would be good should watch what they are wishing for as it will come back and bite them on the arse just like the Bailieu in Victoria.

In some ways Australia where if as it seems most of the punters out there are so stupid or lazy to not work out what is really going on then they deserve the likes of Abbott,Pyne,Mirrabella, Hockey,Andrews,Truss,Abetz, Brandis and Morrison all BTW committed Christians which also says a lot about Christianty as well..
 

dmc333

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Posts
12,100
Likes
7,769
Location
On Deadly Ground
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Seagal, Hull, Hibs
Would love to see I/O really go off the cliff and stay down this time.

Whatever bullshit artist that gets in might have to actually address Howard, Rudd and Gillard's giveaways.

Working families meet Casio. Learn to 'effing budget.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom