Tony Lockett was better than Wayne Carey or Ablett Snr

[Gibbke]

Controversial opinion I know, but as someone who grew up closely watching all three, and saw them live many times, I honestly think Plugger was the best of them all, and the best player I have seen in my lifetime following footy (since 1986)

Plugger had a more significant and profound and longer lasting legacy on the game (especially in a pioneer state in Sydney) and his all time goal scoring record will never be broken (least in my time)

Annoys me that Lockett is rarely discussed in the GOAT of the game status, in my opinion he is comfortably in the top 5, if not 3, of the VFL/AFL history.

Not controversial, because he was awesome...

As some have stated though, the categories need to be split...

You can't safely define the world's best ever guitarist, for example - Hendrix often wins the polls, but there are dozens of players across different styles who are technically better in that style, or who contributed more in their genre...no doubting his influence, but does that make him a better actual player? Imagine him without an acid tablet in his headband. Then you get on YouTube and find nobodies who can beat all the greats...!

Lockett was the icing that made Sydney an actual footy team, and his record probably won't be broken unless they throw in rules that skew the game in favour of goal kicking. Coaches and observers all say that his skill set was utterly elite, even if he wasn't the most mobile player - he could never kick a goal on the run like Franklin did that day twice v Essendon, but you knew he wouldn't miss from 50...well, he did once, but it still got the Swans into the GF...!

For me, it's Carey, but Ablett, other Ablett, Daicos (younger people, he invented that s**t, and if you youtube him you'll see what I'm on about), Baldock, Matthews, anyone named Bunton...too many to fit into 5...just like Hendrix, Davey504 (speaking of youtube), Van Halen, Vai, Davey504, Gibbke, Davey504, Malmsteen...Davey504...

 

[Gibbke]

great OP, poignant timing with the recent retirement of his GOAT opposite number in Rance. Have to agree Plugger was the best FF.

Rance v Plugger would have been a sight to behold

Ironically for a Tiger, Rance would have been eaten alive. His best work has come as part of a defensive unit shutting down today's multiple forward option tactics, but one on one, he has never contended with a single focus forward like Tony Lockett who combined skills, aggression and sheer mass in the one package...

To play on Plugger, you needed all the footy skills and carry the Mongrel +5 card...better backs than Rance (because he's not the GOAT) such as Silvagni and Langford experienced the ringside seat thrill of watching their best efforts still concede double figures...David Dench, the actual GOAT, either regrets the lost challenge or is secretly happy that he never had to deal with besting a mature Lockett...

 

[Crow till I die]

I always wondered how many goals lockett might have kicked if he was in that hawthorn team in the 80's and early 90's instead of dunstall. Lockett kicked many of his goals in a team that was down the bottom and getting beat most weeks. Imagine if he had a dominant midfield and silver service to feed off

 

[MinerBoy]

I always wondered how many goals lockett might have kicked if he was in that hawthorn team in the 80's and early 90's instead of dunstall. Lockett kicked many of his goals in a team that was down the bottom and getting beat most weeks. Imagine if he had a dominant midfield and silver service to feed off

It's a good argument but he was also 'mostly' the singular focus whereas the Hawks had an amazing array of goal kickers aside from Dunstall who shared in and contributed to the team spoils.... Brereton, Curran, Abbott, Buckenara, Dear, Morrisey, Hudson

 

[footyfan1978]

It's a good argument but he was also 'mostly' the singular focus

Which is why their team never got near a flag....
In a really good team there are more options

 

[footyfan1978]

Lockett use to pinch hit in ruck and then play at CHB when the s**t hit the fan in the early days. He was far more versatile than Dunstall.

Clutching at straws. A few hit outs in forward line do not really count as playing ruck. Full forward only, let us not kid ourselves. The best at it too in my time of watching.

Ablett leadership .. please... lol

 

[My Tilly]

Clutching at straws. A few hit outs in forward line do not really count as playing ruck. Full forward only, let us not kid ourselves. The best at it too in my time of watching.

Ablett leadership .. please... lol

It's funny isn't it but facts are facts. He was captain during his career.
Not many who played the sport were.

I'm not clutching at straws at all.
Lockett was very versatile in the first half of his career.
No doubt he couldn't move outside the forward fifty when he put on an extra 10kg's in the back half of his career. Didn't need to anyway.

 

[My Tilly]

I always wondered how many goals lockett might have kicked if he was in that hawthorn team in the 80's and early 90's instead of dunstall. Lockett kicked many of his goals in a team that was down the bottom and getting beat most weeks. Imagine if he had a dominant midfield and silver service to feed off

He would have copped more double-teams than what Dunstall did which would have led to Brereton and Buckenara bobbing up kicking more bags of goals.

 

[Ricmel]

. Coaches and observers all say that his skill set was utterly elite, even if he wasn't the most mobile player - he could never kick a goal on the run like Franklin did that day

This is the sort of comment Lockett attarcts from people who never saw him play .....have only seen the highlights reel or one or two games live.

Lockett was supreme on the ground, he just never fumbled and rarely went to ground. Lack of pace was his only flaw, but when the ball was in hos area he either got it or he cleared a path for a team mate to get it.

Kicked what I still think is the best goal I have seen live. Very wet day at Moorabbin against Pies, leading to the half forward flank, the ball bounced in fron of him and his oponent, Lockett read the bounce and gather the ball but momentum took them around 60 metres from goal deep in the flank. Lockett showed the ball to his opponent, ducked back boundary side and let fly with with a torp on the run from about 60.

It was simply an impossible goal. The next longest kick for the day was about 40 metres, the ball was that heavy and slippery.

 

[footyfan1978]

I'm not clutching at straws at all.

nah, not at all....

 

[morsie]

Pretty sure Quinlan won his when he played more like a big ruck rover. Think he won it with his mate Barry Round.
Templeton certainly won one as a key forward.

Edit: Here is video of our game v Fitzroy in Quinlan's Brownlow year.
First bounce of second quarter you can see him in the centre square as their ruck rover. Number 5 for Lions.

Yep 6 ft 5 inch centreman.Whene he went to full forward he added about 10kg.

 

[My Tilly]

Very wet day at Moorabbin against Pies, leading to the half forward flank, the ball bounced in fron of him and his oponent, Lockett read the bounce and gather the ball but momentum took them around 60 metres from goal deep in the flank. Lockett showed the ball to his opponent, ducked back boundary side and let fly with with a torp on the run from about 60.

Do you recall what year that may have been?

 

[footyfan1978]

Yep 6 ft 5 inch centreman.Whene he went to full forward he added about 10kg.

He was scary good as a ruck rover with his superboot. Only had 9 kicks that day, but the superboot booted 5 straight from them...
video shows him dropping a torp not far from wing...lol

 

[footyfan1978]

Very wet day at Moorabbin

every game back then was wet at Moorabin even if there was no rain in morning or night before...ha ha

 

[Evolved1]

Only issue I have always had with Howe is that he gets a free run and jump and always has due to his playing position.
Very rarely has he had a defender guarding his space or impeding his jump at the footy.

Modra had to contend with it every single game and he still managed to get airborne quicker and higher than everyone else.

Modra is very underrated.

 

[Evolved1]

1991 Lockett
17 games
127.51
190 kicks
140 marks
33 handballs
223 disposals

1993 Ablett
17 games
124.60
233 kicks
111 marks
13 handballs (lol)
246 disposals

How many of those were handballs to self?

 

[Ricmel]

Do you recall what year that may have been?

I’d be guessing 87 or 88.

 

[Gibbke]

This is the sort of comment Lockett attarcts from people who never saw him play .....have only seen the highlights reel or one or two games live.

Dude, I'm 50 next month. I saw his entire career...

 

[Ricmel]

Dude, I'm 50 next month. I saw his entire career...

then you should no how good he was on the ground. Lockett had one weakness as a footballer, he was asthmatic and could only play in short bursts. But every other skill in the game he was absolutely elite.

 

[Gibbke]

then you should no how good he was on the ground. Lockett had one weakness as a footballer, he was asthmatic and could only play in short bursts. But every other skill in the game he was absolutely elite.

I don't agree with your ground assessment. He was a kid once, but he wasn't a mobile player for enough of his career to warrant your plaudits. When he was at his legendary best, he was a FF in the classical sense. He was selected in the goalsquare in the 1989 Origin match and the role of the mobile forward was given to Dunstall - nobody questioned the wisdom (and they did beforehand) once it was clear that they wouldn't clash in the square due to Dunstall's mobility. Lockett was a great footballer all around, but to say he could match Franklin as a running player (which you virtually did in your first reply) is ridiculous...

 

[woota]

One thing that's being overlooked here that can't be measured or quantified is the levels of psychological intimidation/domination that Carey inflicted on his opponents. He was the type of bloke to * your missus because he didn't like you, and being the good looking rooster that he was in his 20s (no homo), you knew that was a genuine possibility. He was scummier than a used car salesman and a bully through and through.

 

[Ricmel]

I don't agree with your ground assessment. He was a kid once, but he wasn't a mobile player for enough of his career to warrant your plaudits. When he was at his legendary best, he was a FF in the classical sense. He was selected in the goalsquare in the 1989 Origin match and the role of the mobile forward was given to Dunstall - nobody questioned the wisdom (and they did beforehand) once it was clear that they wouldn't clash in the square due to Dunstall's mobility. Lockett was a great footballer all around, but to say he could match Franklin as a running player (which you virtually did in your first reply) is ridiculous...

ive never mentioned Franklin? Two completely different players.

 

[Stabby McGee]

One thing that's being overlooked here that can't be measured or quantified is the levels of psychological intimidation/domination that Carey inflicted on his opponents. He was the type of bloke to fu** your missus because he didn't like you, and being the good looking rooster that he was in his 20s (no homo), you knew that was a genuine possibility. He was scummier than a used car salesman and a bully through and through.

True... maybe... but I’d be a hell of a lot more worried getting between the ball and Plugger or Ablett. Those guys would run through you like a steam train.

 

[Gibbke]

ive never mentioned Franklin? Two completely different players.

I said this:

"Coaches and observers all say that his skill set was utterly elite, even if he wasn't the most mobile player - he could never kick a goal on the run like Franklin did that day v Essendon..."

You said this:

"This is the sort of comment Lockett attarcts from people who never saw him play .....have only seen the highlights reel or one or two games live..."

You are virtually saying that Lockett could do what Franklin did...if that wasn't your intent, then you're disagreeing with the "most mobile player" part, which is a bit picky because I didn't exactly call him Mick Nolan...and your goal of the day anecdote isn't about the burst of speed necessarily but more about his skillset, which we both agree was top shelf...

 

[Brutalitops]

True... maybe... but I’d be a hell of a lot more worried getting between the ball and Plugger or Ablett. Those guys would run through you like a steam train.

Its a bizarre line of thought. Blokes like Lockett, Ablett, and Matthews actively tried to hurt the opposition any time they left themselves vulnerable. I never saw Ablett for for a bump without raising his elbow, Plugger pretty much the same. Lethal would go so far as to bring his studs on a downed players hands.

Its a strange thing to argue, that Careys "raw sexual energy" would bother the opposition in the slightest let alone cause psychological trauma. What happened when he tried that after getting traded to Adelaide? He outright shat himself when Archer came at him.

But yes, im quite certain any opposition player who played on or near Careywould be thinking, "gee, i hope he doesnt bang my missus after the game". That poster is a joke who likely never saw him play.