Tony Lockett was better than Wayne Carey or Ablett Snr

[My Tilly]

junk time goals

You do realize that for seasons 1993-1996 when Ablett was a permanent full forward, he averaged 5.5 marks & 5.2 goals per game against all eventual finalists don't you?

 

[DidakDelight]

Valencia oranges are so much nicer than Fuji apples.

 

[qman]

No knock on Plugger be he had guys like Harvey, Winmar and Burke up field from him. They might have struggled a bit from 10-18, but they had some top end talent. Which is why they were so good to watch, even if they weren’t contenders.

Great players you mentioned but didn't deliver the ball on a silver platter they way Pritchard and Jarman could.

 

[My Tilly]

Great players you mentioned but didn't deliver the ball on a silver platter they way Pritchard and Jarman could.

Tuck and Platten were pretty handy deliverers of the ball as well.

Later years, even blokes like Condon and Allan were stars in their own right. Hawthorn have always had brilliant midfielders.

 

[Tectonic]

Valencia oranges are so much nicer than Fuji apples.

My stats clearly prove that Fuji apples are better at being apples than Valencias are.

 

[footyfan1978]

Yeah but in the 94 prelim North Melbourne weren't flogged for 3 quarters before kicking junk goals in the last after the game was over like Geelong in 89

and in 95 North prelim final, North were thrashed. No way Carey got close to 6 goals that night.

 

[Grrr]

Valencia oranges are so much nicer than Fuji apples.

Rubbish.

 

[PhatBoy]

junk time goals in the last doesn't count as a comeback, you're gotta actually be a threat to be considered a comeback

I suppose Ablett kicking the first of the game was in junk time as well. His 3 in the second quarter too when players on the leading team start running down the clock.

 

[Steven Gerrard]

I remember my ex girlfriend's best friend was starting to get into Aussie Rules and she told me she asked about thirty people "Why do they call Gary Ablett God?". No word of a lie, according to her, they all said the same thing - "Because he is". I told her the same thing, which prompted her to tell me about the other 29 people. This was before he took his break and in SA too where the love for the V was non existent.

 

[DidakDelight]

God wouldn’t assault a pizza delivery man

 

[The Bomb]

Just read the 1st couple pages and the Rance vs Lockett talk has to be a joke, didn't Cloke take Rance to the cleaners?
You just know how young some people are when they bring Rance into a Lockett, Ablett snr and Carey discussion.

 

[Captain_Bender]

I suppose Ablett kicking the first of the game was in junk time as well. His 3 in the second quarter too when players on the leading team start running down the clock.

Kicked the first yet was nowhere to be seen as Hawthorn piled on goal after goal

 

[Vdubs]

North Melbourne built their game plan around Wayne Carey in a successful era. That says it all afaic.

Geelong would not have made the 4 GF's (they lost) without having Gary Ablett as their go-to player.
Not as successful as NM, but that is not the fault of GAblett.

 

[PhatBoy]

Kicked the first yet was nowhere to be seen as Hawthorn piled on goal after goal

Yeah his defence off a half forward flank was a key factor in our sudden drop off

 

[PhatBoy]

North Melbourne built their game plan around Wayne Carey in a successful era. That says it all afaic.

It was led by him.

The Coleman medalist he had playing in the same forward line probably had a small part to play in it as well

 

[Brutalitops]

God wouldn’t assault a pizza delivery man

Story goes it wasnt just pizza he was delivering

 

[Evolved1]

As an Essendon man, you can see why this post a little contradicting though.
Carey dominated Essendon throughout his career.

His top three goal averages were against Fremantle 4 (faced them 8 times), Melbourne 3.25 and Essendon 3.21 goals per game.
Of course Essendon people will remember him fondly as bullying their side.

When Carlton people speak highly of Silvagni, it's not difficult to see why. Carey, this great player who bullied opponents, could only average 13.5 disposals, 4.5 marks and 1.4 goals against Carlton & Stephen.

Fair points, but I remember Ablett taking us to the cleaners many times as well. I can't recall Essendon being a particularly strong defensive side during my time as a fan.

If you do the stats for Ablett, I wouldn't be surprised to see Essendon right up there as one of the teams he feasted on most.

This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion here, but I don't rate great defenders as highly as great forwards regardless of the outcome of individual duels. I think defense is an easier role to play, especially during the 80's-90's era when the role of defenders was one-dimensional.

 

[Evolved1]

Rance would have retired sooner if he had to play on Plugger.

His unaccountable defending would have seen him destroyed in Plugger's day.

Retired hurt, hit by a freight train.

 

[My Tilly]

Fair points, but I remember Ablett taking us to the cleaners many times as well. I can't recall Essendon being a particularly strong defensive side during my time as a fan.

If you do the stats for Ablett, I wouldn't be surprised to see Essendon right up there as one of the teams he feasted on most.

This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion here, but I don't rate great defenders as highly as great forwards regardless of the outcome of individual duels. I think defense is an easier role to play, especially during the 80's-90's era when the role of defenders was one-dimensional.

I just don't understand why you wouldn't rate the great defenders. It was difficult back to then to play on a supremely gifted athlete. There was a bit more space for the forward to work with which made it even tougher for a defender to stay with them. I honestly believe that if Chris Langford played in the game today, we would be watching a Jeremy McGovern type but with even better accountability.

What exactly makes today's defender more complete than the defenders of the 80's and 90's?

 

[Evolved1]

I remember my ex girlfriend's best friend was starting to get into Aussie Rules and she told me she asked about thirty people "Why do they call Gary Ablett God?". No word of a lie, according to her, they all said the same thing - "Because he is". I told her the same thing, which prompted her to tell me about the other 29 people. This was before he took his break and in SA too where the love for the V was non existent.

Ablettanity is the most popular faith in Victoria; we believe in God and his son. South Australians are wicked heathens.

 

[Evolved1]

I just don't understand why you wouldn't rate the great defenders. It was difficult back to then to play on a supremely gifted athlete. There was a bit more space for the forward to work with which made it even tougher for a defender to stay with them. I honestly believe that if Chris Langford played in the game today, we would be watching a Jeremy McGovern type but with even better accountability.

What exactly makes today's defender more complete than the defenders of the 80's and 90's?

I didn't say I don't rate them. I just don't rate them as highly as the great forwards.

Negating an opponent is far easier than being a playmaker. Matty Scarlett blurs the lines a bit.

 

[Catsnlakers]

Shows that he was a flat track bully who beat up on bottom 4 sides

Ablett kicked 1031 goals from 248 matches....In finals he kicked 64 goals from 16 matches....Just in case you didn’t know, that averages out very similar, which is good going for finals by any metric. Thus proving he was as consistent against the best teams as he was the weaker teams....Even Jason Dunstall who played in one of the best teams of all time didn’t average 4 goals a game in finals!

 

[Evolved1]

Ablett kicked 1031 goals from 248 matches....In finals he kicked 64 goals from 16 matches....Just in case you didn’t know, that averages out very similar, which is good going for finals by any metric. Thus proving he was as consistent against the best teams as he was the weaker teams....Even Jason Dunstall who played in one of the best teams of all time didn’t average 4 goals a game in finals!

You're debating someone who believes Jack Riewoldt has a claim to the title of GOAT if he wins another Coleman medal.

Keep that in mind!

 

[Catsnlakers]

Fair points, but I remember Ablett taking us to the cleaners many times as well. I can't recall Essendon being a particularly strong defensive side during my time as a fan.

If you do the stats for Ablett, I wouldn't be surprised to see Essendon right up there as one of the teams he feasted on most.

This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion here, but I don't rate great defenders as highly as great forwards regardless of the outcome of individual duels. I think defense is an easier role to play, especially during the 80's-90's era when the role of defenders was one-dimensional.

The famous Salmon match in 1993 gets talked about a lot, but really his 89 PF against you guys was as close to perfection as you will see, especially considering what happened two weeks prior when you smashed us. I’m pretty sure after that match Tim Watson said something along the lines of there’s great players & then there’s Gary Ablett.

 

[Evolved1]

The famous Salmon match in 1993 gets talked about a lot, but really his 89 PF against you guys was as close to perfection as you will see, especially considering what happened two weeks prior when you smashed us. I’m pretty sure after that match Tim Watson said something along the lines of there’s great players & then there’s Gary Ablett.

Gaz destroyed us so many times that I have trouble distinguishing between games these days. The old school shootouts were fun, regardless of who won.