Tony Shaw Coming for Eddie & Co

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MarkT

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#27
Magpies2005 said:
eddie will be presedent until he wants to give it away there is no way in hell that he will be voted out he has dont way to much for the club in the years that he has been there his easy the best person for the job.
Financially he has been pure genius. On field he has been abject failure. 7 years and heading for his second spoon. His coaching appointment which he continues to insist will get an extension has failed to maintain let alone develop a list and has not addressed fundamental flaws in the list that existed when he too over 6 seasons back. We are now soft, slow and poorly skilled. We have never been soft before. Now in the face of pathetic list management Eddie announces a review that exempts the coach and allows everyone else to apply for their jobs. FFS if you are the president, elected to win premierships, you decide who isn’t the best you can get and sack them. We are soft on and off the field. False bravado on AFL issues not followed by action is soft. Not sacking Balme is soft. Moving Judkins sideways is soft.

The football department is not accountable for results and the board is not accountable for the football department. Eddie has done a remarkable job with securing the short/medium term future of the club when things looked very dicey. For that I am eternally grateful. However we are a football club and we don’t win premierships. We make the GF twice and we use that as a defense for retaining Malthouse. We did not succeed in 2002 and 2003 we failed. Having failed what did we do about it? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. We still have the same weaknesses only amplified and on top of that we have even less depth.

Has Eddie done a good job? Depends whether you are a shareholder of a football club member. As a business we are sensational. As a football club we are a joke and a laughing stock and we still take the time to crow at every opportunity.
 
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#28
Collingwood should do their best to not let Tony Shaw make any decisions about their future, either on of off the field.

It wasn't long ago that he was coaching, and a lesson should have been learnt from that experience
 

Murray

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#29
MarkT said:
Financially he has been pure genius. On field he has been abject failure. 7 years and heading for his second spoon. His coaching appointment which he continues to insist will get an extension has failed to maintain let alone develop a list and has not addressed fundamental flaws in the list that existed when he too over 6 seasons back. We are now soft, slow and poorly skilled. We have never been soft before. Now in the face of pathetic list management Eddie announces a review that exempts the coach and allows everyone else to apply for their jobs. FFS if you are the president, elected to win premierships, you decide who isn’t the best you can get and sack them. We are soft on and off the field. False bravado on AFL issues not followed by action is soft. Not sacking Balme is soft. Moving Judkins sideways is soft.

The football department is not accountable for results and the board is not accountable for the football department. Eddie has done a remarkable job with securing the short/medium term future of the club when things looked very dicey. For that I am eternally grateful. However we are a football club and we don’t win premierships. We make the GF twice and we use that as a defense for retaining Malthouse. We did not succeed in 2002 and 2003 we failed. Having failed what did we do about it? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. We still have the same weaknesses only amplified and on top of that we have even less depth.

Has Eddie done a good job? Depends whether you are a shareholder of a football club member. As a business we are sensational. As a football club we are a joke and a laughing stock and we still take the time to crow at every opportunity.
"Abject Failure?"
Mark you are kidding yourself.

Were you in hibernation in 2002 and 2003
Oh and BTW who was the coach that got us to the two GF's?

Mark don't let your dislike foe Eddie and MM get in the way of the truth - you are smarter than that
 

MarkT

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#30
Murray, at Collingwood we finish second as a matter of course. The sooner we see that as failure the sooner we'll stop doing it.

I don't dislike Eddie at all. Christ, people on the main board accuse me of being Eddie. Malthouse has decimated our list by directing the draft team to take the wrong (fat arsed midfielder) types, by trading for hacks, by offering a half way house for West Coast gumbies and by letting some quality go from a list lacking quality. Malthouse has been there for 6 seasons and we are now slow, soft and poorly skilled. This is MM's list and it is rubbish because of his input and direction. He is culpable but he has accountability. Apart from the general qualities of the list MM has done absolutely nothing about the midfield and the ruck. The latter has been an issue since before he arrived. To solve it he gave up the Pavlich pick for a ruckman who couldn't ruck. I didn't dislike until he did that but now I want home gone. MM got us to the GF. His inability to solve basic flaws like the ruck cost us the premiership. The less said about 2003 the better as far as I’m concerned but the aftermath was pathetic. It was pathetic with the way he responded verbally and with the lack of ability to address obvious list flaws.

My only issue with Eddie is that he hasn't sacked Malthouse. How can you have a credible review of the football department when the president and the CEO continually say they will extend the coaches contract early next year?

The football department is not accountable for results and the board is not accountable for the football department, the review was too little too late and it is a token effort.
 
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#31
the worst thing malthouse has done is pull a gary ayres at adelaide.

"Eddie, we made 2 Grand Finals. We must be pretty good even though we had a bad year in 2004. We should get a couple more experienced players, then we can have another crack a premiership."

We've been punished by priority picks and sh*t.

Coming 13th and getting pick 7 is very harsh.

Getting Chad Morrison and Chris Egan for Jordan Lewis is stupidity.

Chad Morrison will never play a final at collingwood. Whats the point of having him?

Whats the point of picking Caracella over some kid with a bit of potential?

We may have missed the next ben johnson or tarkyn lockyer or something to have caracella fill in for 2 years?

whats the point?
 

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#32
superfraser said:
the worst thing malthouse has done is pull a gary ayres at adelaide.

"Eddie, we made 2 Grand Finals. We must be pretty good even though we had a bad year in 2004. We should get a couple more experienced players, then we can have another crack a premiership."

We've been punished by priority picks and sh*t.

Coming 13th and getting pick 7 is very harsh.

Getting Chad Morrison and Chris Egan for Jordan Lewis is stupidity.

Chad Morrison will never play a final at collingwood. Whats the point of having him?

Whats the point of picking Caracella over some kid with a bit of potential?

We may have missed the next ben johnson or tarkyn lockyer or something to have caracella fill in for 2 years?

whats the point?
Egan will be a better footballer than Lewis IMO

C Morrison cost us Bo Nixon - I can live with that

I bet you were saying at the time "Don't get Caracella" Nope? Why not?

The fact is he cost us absolutely nothing and but for injuries will have played every game this year
.
But I see you are now happy to gamble against a having premiership player in the hope of getting someone better.
Glad you are not doing our recruiting, you would be using Tarrot card method.
 

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#33
Murray said:
Egan will be a better footballer than Lewis IMO
Based on what? Lewis looks good and Egan kicks appallingly at times. I have Leon Davis nightmares.
Murray said:
C Morrison cost us Bo Nixon - I can live with that
Morrison might actually be a negative. Slow and poorly skilled. He is part of our problem. He also cost us Lewis v Egan.
Murray said:
Glad you are not doing our recruiting, you would be using Tarrot card method.
Based on what? Lewis looks good and Egan kicks appallingly at times. I have Leon Davis nightmares. Would that be better or worse than the West Coast hack method that Malthouse has used? Can anyone tell me what Rintoul, Cummings, Williams or even McKenna have brought to the table (no Cummings and donuts jokes please). As far as I can see MM has 1 win and that is Clement and I don't see why we couldn't have tried harder to keep Williams and used another player/draft pick deal(s) to get Clement. The Tarrot card method would suit me as an alternative to what we actually did use which was the NFI method. The proof is in the list.
 

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#34
MarkT said:
Based on what? Lewis looks good and Egan kicks appallingly at times. I have Leon Davis nightmares.
Morrison might actually be a negative. Slow and poorly skilled. He is part of our problem. He also cost us Lewis v Egan.
Based on what? Lewis looks good and Egan kicks appallingly at times. I have Leon Davis nightmares. Would that be better or worse than the West Coast hack method that Malthouse has used? Can anyone tell me what Rintoul, Cummings, Williams or even McKenna have brought to the table (no Cummings and donuts jokes please). As far as I can see MM has 1 win and that is Clement and I don't see why we couldn't have tried harder to keep Williams and used another player/draft pick deal(s) to get Clement. The Tarrot card method would suit me as an alternative to what we actually did use which was the NFI method. The proof is in the list.
How do you know morrison cost us lewis vs egan? by all reports, and judging by the reaction and comments of the coaching/scouting staff, egan was the player we were going to use the pick 7 on anyway. Therefore it is a simple nixon vs morrison. Now im no fan of morrison.. but nixon? At least morrison can have some value in developing youngsters as he leads out williamstown every week ;)

The williams thing was a joke (andrew that is). For about 5 minutes he actually looked like a player. in hindsight, that was a big mistake. If we wanted to offload adkins i wouldve much rathered a draft pick.

the Paul williams deal you forget also got us brodie holland. Although not a star, he hasnt been our worst performer this year. Definitly won out on that deal. Yes it wouldve been good to keep williams as well, but who says the deal wouldve even been on the table without paul williams?

Egan is exciting, very fast, and knows how to find the ball. The kicking problem just seems to be nerves. I've seen him deliver some good balls into F50, and his kicking for williamstown is supposedly A1. If it doesnt improve by next season then you'd be asking questions. We are very quick to shoot our youngsters down these days.
 

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#35
Nardz said:
How do you know morrison cost us lewis vs egan? by all reports, and judging by the reaction and comments of the coaching/scouting staff, egan was the player we were going to use the pick 7 on anyway.
You are right I don’t who they would have drafted. It’s just indicative. But the club never said they could have taken Egan. They were actually very deliberately non committal. I specifically paid attention because at the time I pondered this very issue. The impression I got was they wouldn’t have taken Egan otherwise why wouldn’t they have said so?
 

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#36
MarkT said:
You are right I don’t who they would have drafted. It’s just indicative. But the club never said they could have taken Egan. They were actually very deliberately non committal. I specifically paid attention because at the time I pondered this very issue. The impression I got was they wouldn’t have taken Egan otherwise why wouldn’t they have said so?
when commenting on the morrison trade, MM basically said we got him for free because the player we wanted we were almost certain would still be available at pick 10.

He didnt explicitly say it, but he made it pretty clear. Ive heard him say something like that both before and after the draft.
 

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#37
MarkT look at it from Eddie's POV.
2002/2003 - We make grand finals. You cannot realistically go axing an on-field support team that seems to have the right mix to get us into 2 grand finals.
2004 - We finish 13th after a poor run with injuries - again we are coming off grand finals what should Eddie do? Sack whoever he sees on the monitor Monty Burns style? We were unlucky to have those injuries and with a bit of luck could be of been back in it in 2005, sure the medical staff could've been assesed and who's to say they wasn't?
2005 - 2 years in the bottom 4 you can't rest on you laurels even though we were in the gf 2 years ago. Eddie is re-assesing every staff.

The only thing I will criticise on Eddie is rushing to extend Mick's contract. I think he should of said "Mick has one more year on his contract and he will be here in 2006".

Eddie cannot be held responsible for on-ground failings. The players and the staff themselves have to cop that.
 

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#40
Nardz said:
when commenting on the morrison trade, MM basically said we got him for free because the player we wanted we were almost certain would still be available at pick 10.

He didnt explicitly say it, but he made it pretty clear. Ive heard him say something like that both before and after the draft.
I though he and the club said the players they thought would be available were all about the same quality.
 

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#41
Jabso, the president has to read the signs. That’s his job. He runs the show and he has to make the calls before disaster strikes. Whatever people say about Elliot, that’s what he did for 20 years with coaches. What really gets me though, as you alluded to, is the message coming from Collingwood. Eddie and Swan have consistently said MM will be renewed. How on Earth can you have a review of the football department that exempts a failed coach? That we or he can even think to hang the coach’s hat on 2 losing grand finals is just so typically Collingwood that we have now become a parody of ourselves.
 

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#42
I half agree with you Mark, because I think that any talk of reviews and overhauls are smokescreens, although I will wait to be pleasantly surprised.

It concerns me that Ed said he had a meeting with Balme over the future direction of the Club, as if Balme isn't a part of the review. WTF has he ever done off the field in all seriousness other than bring misery to the clubs he's overseen? Is he really the best bloke to talk to in relation to rebuilding??

I disagree that Malthouse isn't the one who can lead us forward. It's pretty typically Australian to flick underperformers, who might otherwise have learnt a lesson from their mistakes. He is a good coach, he's just useless at identifying talent.

The key is, has Malthouse learnt from his mistakes? The last draft involved trading down a draft pick for a mate who's past it. That's 5 years after the McKee stuff up, yet he's still making the same errors. That's highly concerning. As is his continual signing or recruiting of serial duds (usually blokes of good character) and his decreasing return from certain talented players (usually the "inferior" characters). And as is his neglect of the ruck.

But yeah, I think all we will see is a review, some furniture moved around and more appointments. And I don't think snowballing does anything than cover up the cracks and with Balmey and Scotty Cummings on board, we have some pretty big cracks to cover!!
 

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#43
MarkT said:
Jabso, the president has to read the signs. That’s his job. He runs the show and he has to make the calls before disaster strikes. Whatever people say about Elliot, that’s what he did for 20 years with coaches. What really gets me though, as you alluded to, is the message coming from Collingwood. Eddie and Swan have consistently said MM will be renewed. How on Earth can you have a review of the football department that exempts a failed coach? That we or he can even think to hang the coach’s hat on 2 losing grand finals is just so typically Collingwood that we have now become a parody of ourselves.
Mark according to you all coaches are 'failed coaches' except for the current premership coach.
On that basis you would be turning over 15 every year
 

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#45
goalpie said:
And the coach. The coach with no game plan at all. The coach with no ideas at all.
Well I guess if you keep saying it enough to enough people someone might eventually agree with you

If a room full of monkeys had enough ........
 

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#46
Murray said:
Mark according to you all coaches are 'failed coaches' except for the current premership coach.
On that basis you would be turning over 15 every year
Only 1 is a real success but that doesn't mean there are 15 failures every year. I have consistently said Roos is top shelf for what he has got from what he has to deal with. It isn’t actually MM's coaching as such that I have a great problem with. It is his hand in list management that is the bigger issue. I'm sock of good blokes that can't play. I'm sick of his 10 year old midfield bodies theory. I'm sick of who needs a ruckman theory. I’m sock of his look after your players but throw Fraser or Travis Cloke to the wolves in the most difficult positions on the park crap.

From a purely coaching perspective how do you rate him tactically? I though the Port QF was awesome and he did Choco over. I can’t think of much else to rave about though. Selection, player usage, innovation, flair and most importantly results are below expectation in my view.

EDIT:
No F. IT! Any coach who loses two on the trott and does nothing to address the list problems that contributed mch less one that blames everyone but himself and refuses to change is a failure. Out and out failure.
 

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Thread starter #47
And where is Ben Jhonson, he is easily one of our better players. prime example of Malthouse skills as a coach.
 

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#48
goalpie said:
And where is Ben Jhonson, he is easily one of our better players. prime example of Malthouse skills as a coach.
Injured - what that is MM's fault too - you get a bigger idiot each day
 

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Thread starter #49
Murray said:
Injured - what that is MM's fault too - you get a bigger idiot each day
So he was injured the previous week.

Can I join your club. I then can also love myself, have a big ego, winge, sook and pretend.
 
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