List Mgmt. Too late to rethink on Witts?

[Maggie5]

I realise that there is a lot of people here who have personal relationships with Jarrod Witts. I dont have the advantage of talking to him on a daily basis. However, it's common knowledge that he went to the club last year and said that he didnt want to be traded. It's also common knowledge that the club agreed not to trade him. It's also common knowledge that he was under contract last year but it ended this year. That strengthens Collingwood's hand if they still want to trade him. I dont see why Witt's attitude would have changed a lot. People at BF assume that he will give up on being successful at Collingwood because that's what they would do. It's a mistake to think another person is a quitter just because you're a quitter. Witts didnt appear to be a quitter last year and Grundy's form mightnt make him feel like quitting this year. My feeling is that it's up to the club if he plays with another club next year....

The only way it is up to the Club is if they offer him a contract, otherwise it is the draft or the club he chooses. Either way he wins.
Essendon or WB would be a great fit for him as I expect both clubs to be in the 8 next year.

 

[domin8tors]

The simple fact is he is out of contract and he himself will have the final say on whether he stays or go's.

very valid point, because at the moment he is not a FA and therefore we can still get something back. and if he plays another season in the VFL like this year he will lose value. even someone like Hawks now would seriously look at him given Ceglar is out of action .

 

[OniAu]

Wouldn't be against trading him. Pick up a ruck youngster with one of our late picks. Purely for back up

Maybe try to do a swap with GWS for a fringe guy that cant get a game

I doubt witts would be number 1 ruck anywhere else

 

[Horaceg]

One of this year's more contentious topics has been Jarrod Witts and his future. We all know he was injured in game 1 (web between his fingers IIRC?), struggled to get back to full use of his hand, was eventually given a return game in the seniors and played poorly, and was then effectively dropped for the remainder of the season.

With Grundy having a fantastic year, we just haven't been able to find a place for both of them in the side. They are both number 1 ruckmen, and neither appears to play the resting forward/ruck role well enough. But have we exhausted this option?

VFL followers know that Witts, particularly in the second half of the VFL season, has been killing it. Absolutely dominating other VFL, and some AFL ruckmen. Should we have brought him back to the seniors and tried again, especially after Mason Cox tired and tailed off in form?

I am really concerned about letting Wittsy go, even for a high draft pick, which most seem convinced we wont get anyway. A middling second round pick for Jarrod would be highway robbery.

Yes, it takes the big guys time to mature

 

[Justlokan]

I would have loved to have packaged him in the treloar trade, but he had to prove himself.

from what I understand he was packaged in the Treloar trade but Witts turned it down

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

He's not on big dollar.. and we need a back up ruckman. Cox is s..t re.. Unless someone wants him.. keep him on the list re. I like Witts.. good skills for a ruckman we mustn't overlook that.

Good points except....

I think the theory is (1) half a dozen other clubs will want him (2) they will probably pay him more that we can afford to pay a VFL backup (3) he will prefer to play at a club that can give him an opportunity in the seniors

 

[RupetFan]

There's been a contract on the table for Witts for a while. Club wants to keep him but it's up to him.

 

[Justlokan]

Don't want to be reminded of those two!

Chris Bryan also says hello.
Collingwood don't historically develop rucks very well. Suddenly we have two first rucks!.

FWIW I'm ok with Witts being traded out as he deserves more opportunities. Being such a specialised position, there's a higher premium on them, so I'd want at least a 2nd rounder.

Assuming he does leave, this means that:

• White is highly likely to stay
• Gault's chances of staying improve [slightly]
• we need Cloke to stay as relying on Cox/Moore isn't feasible, especially if Grundy goes down and White is needed in the ruck

Finally, any thoughts on Darcy doing more ruckwork? I heard his dad wasn't too bad at it

 

[Markfs]

The only way it is up to the Club is if they offer him a contract, otherwise it is the draft or the club he chooses. Either way he wins.
Essendon or WB would be a great fit for him as I expect both clubs to be in the 8 next year.

I think the only option for any club when dealing with a player is to offer a contract. I dont think they can kidnap them or threaten them. And he mightnt believe that he has won if he is not offered a contract, even though he might play elsewhere. Some people stay in the same job for years even though other people tell them they should move on. As I said in my post, I dont know Jarrod and I havent spoken to him it, so I'm not as well informed as many people on BF.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

There's been a contract on the table for Witts for a while. Club wants to keep him but it's up to him.

Would be great for Collingwood if he did. Not so great for the club that could have recruited him and possibly not so great for Witts himself.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Chris Bryan also says hello.
Collingwood don't historically develop rucks very well. Suddenly we have two first rucks!.

FWIW I'm ok with Witts being traded out as he deserves more opportunities. Being such a specialised position, there's a higher premium on them, so I'd want at least a 2nd rounder.

Assuming he does leave, this means that:

• White is highly likely to stay
• Gault's chances of staying improve [slightly]
• we need Cloke to stay as relying on Cox/Moore isn't feasible, especially if Grundy goes down and White is needed in the ruck

Finally, any thoughts on Darcy doing more ruckwork? I heard his dad wasn't too bad at it

White is a lock regardless
Gault is most likely gone regardless (remembering Keeffe returns too)
Agree we need Cloke. We may also wish to rookie list an experienced backup ruckman
Moore can definitely ruck but only in patches. Did a bit of ruck work late in 2015

 

[Maggie5]

I think the only option for any club when dealing with a player is to offer a contract. I dont think they can kidnap them or threaten them. And he mightnt believe that he has won if he is not offered a contract, even though he might play elsewhere. Some people stay in the same job for years even though other people tell them they should move on. As I said in my post, I dont know Jarrod and I havent spoken to him it, so I'm not as well informed as many people on BF.

Don't know him either, just speculating. Would love to know him though to see how he sees his situation.

I just want to see him do well whether it is with us or elsewhere as seems like a 'nice' guy.

 

[CasuallyDressed]

I would be happy to keep him as ruck depth.

But does Witts want to stay as ruck depth?

Either way, I'd sooner keep Witts than trade for a 3rd rounder or something stupid.

 

[Dynamics]

Don't be surprised if he nominates Essendon and our bargaining power flushes down the toilet.....

This is my concern if he does in fact end up asking for a trade (and I hope markfs is right and that Witts is intent on staying). If he's not keen on the Bombers then things look a little rosier.

 

[Markfs]

Don't know him either, just speculating. Would love to know him though to see how he sees his situation.

I just want to see him do well whether it is with us or elsewhere as seems like a 'nice' guy.

I didnt say you knew him. I was merely looking at the situation with the evidence at hand. If he wanted to leave, he had a chance last year. It was up to him because the club was seeking to trade him. He would have had to go to GWS. He may have wanted to go to another club, but he made it public that he wanted to stay with the Pies. He made that public. He didnt have to. As I said, I know that a lot of people here know Jarrod personally, but I work on the evidence that I can see. What might have changed his mind in the last year? Grundy's improved form? Maybe. but like I said, he doesnt appear to be quitter even though people on BF are judging what he might do, based on their approach to life. I dont think it's too controversial to say that a lot of people on BF would quit if the going got tough. I'm just saying that Jarrod might be the type of person who wouldnt quit so easily. As I said in the end, the club has a the choice in the first instance, but he might just put himself in the uncontracted draft. I'd bet against it but I dont know him personally.

 

[Maggie5]

I didnt say you knew him. I was merely looking at the situation with the evidence at hand. If he wanted to leave, he had a chance last year. It was up to him because the club was seeking to trade him. He would have had to go to GWS. He may have wanted to go to another club, but he made it public that he wanted to stay with the Pies. He made that public. He didnt have to. As I said, I know that a lot of people here know Jarrod personally, but I work on the evidence that I can see. What might have changed his mind in the last year? Grundy's improved form? Maybe. but like I said, he doesnt appear to be quitter even though people on BF are judging what he might do, based on their approach to life. I dont think it's too controversial to say that a lot of people on BF would quit if the going got tough. I'm just saying that Jarrod might be the type of person who wouldnt quit so easily. As I said in the end, the club has a the choice in the first instance, but he might just put himself in the uncontracted draft. I'd bet against it but I dont know him personally.

I don't know of any poster that knows him personally, what have I missed?

 

[MeisterBot]

My calls on Witts were pretty bad in hindsight, I still maintain he's more than good enough for AFL. Unfortunately I just don't see him and Grundy co-existing in this team. Real shame, I like him a lot but the decision will be up to him. And if he decides to go to further his own development and play to his potential, I'd be okay with that as long as we get adequate compensation for him.

 

[Maggie5]

You have to ask yourself why would he go to essendon this year and not to GWS last year? He's a sydney boy and he could have moved back to be close to mummy last year. Is he having sex with a melbourne girl at the moment and that means he has to stay in melbourne? maybe...

I get it now, you are back to your usual self. Mummy? Sex with a Melbourne girl? That is too childish even for you.

 

[Maggie5]

My calls on Witts were pretty bad in hindsight, I still maintain he's more than good enough for AFL. Unfortunately I just don't see him and Grundy co-existing in this team. Real shame, I like him a lot but the decision will be up to him. And if he decides to go to further his own development and play to his potential, I'd be okay with that as long as we get adequate compensation for him.

I don't get the 'adequate compensation' part.
Assuming he is not offered a contract, expected to only play VFL or told he is down in the pecking order, why would a club expect that?

 

[ThePhantom777]

^This, unfortunately. I have a feeling that the club would prefer to keep him given his development this season, but given his contract status, the club can only do so much to retain him. If he feels that he will get more senior opportunity elsewhere, they'll find it difficult to change his mind about going.

But we can still trade him if he's not contracted right?

 

[Dynamics]

Don't know him either, just speculating. Would love to know him though to see how he sees his situation.

I just want to see him do well whether it is with us or elsewhere as seems like a 'nice' guy.

Almost too nice at times. Just my personal preference of course, but I wish he was more of a ratbag on the field. I like ruckmen who are happy to get a bit "unsociable". It was something that made Grundy stand out from the start.

Off field, absolutely. Seems like a really decent young chap.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Really depends on what he wants to do.

Grundy is clear number 1.

If Witts is happy being 2nd guy, continue performing in the VFL and push for his spot if Grundy is injured or out of form (or show Bucks that he can play the Fwd/Ruck role) then i would 100% keep him. It is a luxury, but you can become very susceptible if you dont have decent ruck backups.

But in all honesty for Witts and his career, it probably is the right call. Given that he's out of contract - I'd be asking for a mid-late first or early 2nd round pick.

 

[Maggie5]

Almost too nice at times. Just my personal preference of course, but I wish he was more of a ratbag on the field. I like ruckmen who are happy to get a bit "unsociable". It was something that made Grundy stand out from the start.

Off field, absolutely. Seems like a really decent young chap.

Actually he has been very good in that area whilst in the VFL I prefer to call it controlled aggression without giving away free kicks, sometimes you don't need to be a ratbag, just a 'smart' player and he is that.

Anyway, I seem to be in the minority as I can see things in him that others don't and look forward to seeing him develop.
See him more in the Sandilands type of ruckman.

 

[Anzacday]

But we can still trade him if he's not contracted right?

Yes otherwise he's considered to have delisted himself and goes into the draft.

 

[Dynamics]

Actually he has been very good in that area whilst in the VFL I prefer to call it controlled aggression without giving away free kicks, sometimes you don't need to be a ratbag, just a 'smart' player and he is that.

Anyway, I seem to be in the minority as I can see things in him that others don't and look forward to seeing him develop.
See him more in the Sandilands type of ruckman.

You definitely don't need to be a ratbag. I just like watching them.