Opinion Top 50 my life

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Bombermania

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 18, 2007
10,687
6,487
Counting premiership cups
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Non that play Essendon
These lists are never perfect and not in order.

J.Dunstall
T.Lockett
G.Ablett jnr
G.Ablett Snr
J.Hird
J.Brown
L.Franklin (Buddy)
D.Brereton
S.Kernahan
W.Carey
A.Lynch
M.Rioli
C.Rioli
L.Matthews
G.Buckenara
M.Lloyd
A.McLeod
M.Voss
G.Williams
R.Harvey
C.Judd
M.Pavlich
J.Platten
R.DiPierdomenico
N.Buckley
C.Bradley
W.Johnson
A.Koutoufides
R.Flower
D.Martin
N.Burke
A.Goodes
J.Selwood
S.Crawford
S.Mitchell
P.Dangerfield
N.Fyfe
M.Long
M.Ricciuto
G.Ayres
C.Langford
M.Scarlett
S.Silvagni
G.Archer
T.Danhier
L.Hodge
D.Frawley
S.Madden
J.Madden
P.Salmon
 
Last edited:

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
35,315
39,261
AFL Club
Geelong
Which sport has a GOAT that’s never won the ultimate prize buddy?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Why are you so obsessed with that word. It intrigues me.


What other sport has 36 players on the field at any one time.

How can you not understand that?

Michael Jordon or Lebron James or whoever? They play a five man game. As a consequence, both mathematically and in reality, it increases the amount of influence that one elite player can have over the outcome.

As that number grows, again both mathematically, and just in reality, that scope for impact becomes less and less.


The best soccer player by general consensus is Pele: Pele comes from Brazil. What chance does, just as a random example, David Beckham (I know he’s not in the greatest ever debate or in the top 10000 it’s just an example) have when he played all his international football for an ok but generally average team, of winning a World Cup?

What chance does Shakib Al Hasan, probably the best all round cricketer on the planet, have of winning a cricket World Cup when he plays for Bangladesh?


You also seem incredibly unaware that almost ALL other sports don’t have a salary cap, or if they do, they are token in nature.

Of course Tom Brady is going to have championships: whoever he wants around him he gets because the team can afford it.
Soccer players in Euro leagues: they just get all the best players and put them with the nominal best player. At some point they will win titles.



Lastly, not only does AFL have the biggest spread of onfield responsibility in terms of numbers, it has the largest field full stop. One player cannot be everywhere all the time. It is a game without a role that decides the game.
Look at rugby league or union or NFL: 90 per cent of the time the game will be determined by players from 1-2 positions. That’s the nature of the games. Invariably the best players are all halfbacks and five eights, the occasional fullback or hooker (the ‘spine’ as they call it). So the very best of them - they can impact the game because the control and organise the game.

That’s not the case in AFL. Yes midfielders get their hands on the ball
More often than anyone else but what good does that do if he is layering perfect kicks to a forward who can’t mark it or if the opposition ruckman makes sure the ball goes to his own team first.


You want reasoned discussion, you want to be taken seriously AND have your silly and frankly bewildering ‘goat’ question answered? There it is.
 

mcnulty

Premiership Player
Sep 18, 2019
4,451
6,686
AFL Club
Hawthorn
This was published in the Age about a decade ago but thought at the time it pretty much nailed the the GAS/GAJ debate, at least for me. The whole article is worth a read, but it finishes with this:

“If you were building a club around one player, someone who would front up week after week and never let you down, you would have to choose the little bald man. For the hopeless footballing romantic, however, no one will ever touch Gary snr. No one offered the same sense of anticipation and possibility. No one could quicken your pulse and channel your inner child the way he could. No one better personified the spell this curious game can cast.

An accumulator par excellence, a relentless machine, the modern game's most complete and decorated player - they're all words that sum up Gary Ablett jnr. When it comes to his dad, there are no words that could do him justice.”

 

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PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
35,315
39,261
AFL Club
Geelong
This was published in the Age about a decade ago but thought at the time it pretty much nailed the the GAS/GAJ debate, at least for me. The whole article is worth a read, but it finishes with this:

“If you were building a club around one player, someone who would front up week after week and never let you down, you would have to choose the little bald man. For the hopeless footballing romantic, however, no one will ever touch Gary snr. No one offered the same sense of anticipation and possibility. No one could quicken your pulse and channel your inner child the way he could. No one better personified the spell this curious game can cast.

An accumulator par excellence, a relentless machine, the modern game's most complete and decorated player - they're all words that sum up Gary Ablett jnr. When it comes to his dad, there are no words that could do him justice.”



I have no problem people saying Matthews, or Carey, or Gaz Jr, or Skilton, or Bunton, or Lockett etc were the best. I really, really don’t give a toss. There are great arguments you can make for all of them. The completeness of Matthew’s and Jr, the freakishness of Sr, the ability of Lockett to be so relentless in a terrible St Kilda side or to help turn Sydney into the ever present powerhouse they are now.


But if you go to YouTube and watch Sr’s highlight clips, there is nothing else in the era of televised football that even comes close.

100 per cent there have been players that could do some of the things he could do, some of the time. Capper, Alan Jakovich, Jarman, Akermanis, Martin, Betts, Daicos: all of these players had sublime skill and demonstrated it more than most players. Even mediocre players blessed with just a dash of that mercurial skill could do it: Ronnie Burns, Neon Leon, Brett Burton.

No one in the history of the game has been able to make the freakish look so regular and achievable as Gary Sr.

Whether that makes him the best? That’s up for debate.

That happens in every sport.
By consensus the 3 best batsmen of their generation were Tendulkar, Ponting and Lara. Lara was the most likely to not fire a shot. He was also easily the most likely to play an innings that would leave not only the fans but the opposition with their jaws on the ground.

That doesn’t inherently make him better, it’s just the evidence that supports the argument that he was.
 

Osho

By God and the mauser.
Jul 9, 2021
2,462
2,465
AFL Club
GWS
Sorry - I was being facetious - given Falcon's scattergun approach to making an argument - he (I'm assuming a he) had ventured into a Brownlow votes = greatness argument and I was challenging this with an argument that Richmond fans always baulk at because their lovechild Dusty only has one of those types of medal.
Righto.
 

VinnieB

Premiership Player
Oct 28, 2021
3,086
4,001
AFL Club
Collingwood
Buckley is better than the players you mentioned clearly.
Pendlebury isn’t. Pendlebury is a great player - he’s in my list (fwiw Luke Ball shouldn’t be anywhere near this sort of list). But he’s no better than Selwood, Corey Enright is widely regarded as the best small defender since Bruce Doull and arguably better. Brad Johnson was a five time all Australian and a superstar. Garry Hocking was probably behind Greg Williams and Robert Harvey as the third best pure midfielder of the 1990s across the duration of the decade. Bartel was a finals specialist who happened to win a Brownlow.

Claiming those players aren’t in the same stratosphere as Pendlebury - who incidentally is one of my favourite players - is stupid.
Scott Pendlebury - 6x All Australian, Norm Smith Medal winner, AFLCA Champion Player of the Year, AFLPA Best Captain, ALFCA Best Young Player.
Currently 6th for amount of Brownlow votes in history.
 

Forward Press

Hall of Famer
Jul 5, 2011
37,471
56,799
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Man Utd
Scott Pendlebury - 6x All Australian, Norm Smith Medal winner, AFLCA Champion Player of the Year, AFLPA Best Captain, ALFCA Best Young Player.

Don't think PB was intending to downplay Pendlebury, just that he rated Buckley higher.

Still will go down as a legend of the game without a doubt. Maybe in the same discussion with players like Matthew Pavlich and Adam Goodes - out and out superstars for a long period and icons of their club and certain Hall of Fame entries, but not a GOAT.
 

VinnieB

Premiership Player
Oct 28, 2021
3,086
4,001
AFL Club
Collingwood
Don't think PB was intending to downplay Pendlebury, just that he rated Buckley higher.

Still will go down as a legend of the game without a doubt. Maybe in the same discussion with players like Matthew Pavlich and Adam Goodes - out and out superstars for a long period and icons of their club and certain Hall of Fame entries, but not a GOAT.
no, but to have all those other players ahead of him in the top 50 is very questionable.
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
35,315
39,261
AFL Club
Geelong
Scott Pendlebury - 6x All Australian, Norm Smith Medal winner, AFLCA Champion Player of the Year, AFLPA Best Captain, ALFCA Best Young Player.
Currently 6th for amount of Brownlow votes in history.


And? Jimmy Bartel, multiple AA, Brownlow medallist, norm smith medalist, part of either the best or second best midfield rotation of the last 33 years, 3 time flag winner, finals specialist?

Enright 6 time all Australian 3 flags, two B and F in flag years.
Selwood 3 flags. 6 AA, 3 time AA captain, 4 time Most Courageous player winner, 3 time best and fairest, rising star winner.
Brad Johnson 6 time AA, nearly 600 goals as a small forward, 3 time best and fairest.

If you’re trying to win this argument that these players ‘aren’t in the same stratosphere as Pendlebury’ using honours as your guide, you might want to stop.
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
35,315
39,261
AFL Club
Geelong
no, but to have all those other players ahead of him in the top 50 is very questionable.


Where did I have players ahead of him? I haven’t ranked any of the ones I picked beyond the 12-13 I said are simply unarguable.

To say Pendlebury is in a different league to all the players you compared him to - and as I said I love the guy and think he’s a fantastic player - is a gross exaggeration
 

caveman72

Club Legend
Feb 7, 2009
1,460
1,532
lost somewhere in time
AFL Club
Geelong
My top players that I liked (in no particular order), and that I seen play in my time going to the footy, of course I mostly watched the Tigers.

Maurice Rioli
Dale Weightman
Bryan Wood
Michael Roach
Mark Lee
Merv Keane
Jim Jess
Gary Wilson
Tony Morwood
Darren Jarman
Simon Madden
Terry Daniher
Tony Lockett
Mark Bayes
Gary Lyon
Matthew Knights
Michael Mitchell
David Honybun
Jason Akermanis
Geoff Raines
Barry Rowlings
Dermott Brereton
Darren Pritchard
Paul Van der Haar
Peter Knights
Ross Glendinning
Phil Krakouer
Jimmy Krakouer
Nicky Winmar
David Grant
Doug Hawkins
Peter Foster
Brian Royal
Bernie Quinlan
Michael Conlan
Alastair Lynch
Benny Gale
Michael Gale
Paul Broderick
Paul Bulluss
Stephen Kernahan
Craig Bradley
Wayne Johnson
Ken Hunter
Simon Black
Craig Lambert
Wayne Campbell
Trent Nicholls
Alan Didak
Dane Swan
Brian Taylor
Phil Egan
David Palm
John Annear
Trevor Poole
Mark Jackson
Warrick Capper
Silvio Foschini
Peter Riccardi
Matthew Pavlich
Alex Rance
Jack Reiwoldt
Dion Prestia
Shai Bolton
Dale Kickett
Chris Mainwaring

I can add more but I think that's enough
Blight?
 

VinnieB

Premiership Player
Oct 28, 2021
3,086
4,001
AFL Club
Collingwood
And? Jimmy Bartel, multiple AA, Brownlow medallist, norm smith medalist, part of either the best or second best midfield rotation of the last 33 years, 3 time flag winner, finals specialist?

Enright 6 time all Australian 3 flags, two B and F in flag years.
Selwood 3 flags. 6 AA, 3 time AA captain, 4 time Most Courageous player winner, 3 time best and fairest, rising star winner.
Brad Johnson 6 time AA, nearly 600 goals as a small forward, 3 time best and fairest.

If you’re trying to win this argument that these players ‘aren’t in the same stratosphere as Pendlebury’ using honours as your guide, you might want to stop.
How many norm smiths? Grand Finals are a team not an individual honour. How many premierships does Gary Ablett Snr have? 'Finals specialist'??? Pendlebury isn't? He was the best player in the grand final. How many of the others were? Club best and fairest? Pendlebury has 5 of those. But also he has finished top 3 in 13 of 16 seasons. 10 x in the top 2.
 

caveman72

Club Legend
Feb 7, 2009
1,460
1,532
lost somewhere in time
AFL Club
Geelong
Yep that’s why he’s my equal No 1. Nobody comes close to him in H&A. My point was that Dusty has enough consistency. He wasn’t just good in a handful of games like that crazy pie supporter says.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
FFS we get it you have a huge man crush on Dusty and if you knew where he lived he would have taken a restraining order out on you for trampling the plants outside his bedroom window. Get over it and accept other people are entitled to their own opinion and that sometimes they won't agree with yours.
 

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PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
35,315
39,261
AFL Club
Geelong
How many norm smiths? Grand Finals are a team not an individual honour. How many premierships does Gary Ablett Snr have? 'Finals specialist'??? Pendlebury isn't? He was the best player in the grand final. How many of the others were? Club best and fairest? Pendlebury has 5 of those. But also he has finished top 3 in 13 of 16 seasons. 10 x in the top 2.

???
So what? Norm smiths occur over 80 minutes of football. All the cats players I mentioned have played exceptional grand finals

Enright marshalled a defence that repelled St Kilda for 3 quarters in 2009.
Bartel literally won a norm smith medal
Selwood had 29 touches, 17 contested, 2 goals, 7 tackles in a grand final against YOUR TEAM!!!!

How does the fact that Pendlebury got a medal for his effort where he had 29, 0 goals, 10 contested somehow put him in a different league over the course of two 15 year careers compared to Selwood?
 

catscollector

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 30, 2018
6,104
7,680
AFL Club
Geelong
This was published in the Age about a decade ago but thought at the time it pretty much nailed the the GAS/GAJ debate, at least for me. The whole article is worth a read, but it finishes with this:

“If you were building a club around one player, someone who would front up week after week and never let you down, you would have to choose the little bald man. For the hopeless footballing romantic, however, no one will ever touch Gary snr. No one offered the same sense of anticipation and possibility. No one could quicken your pulse and channel your inner child the way he could. No one better personified the spell this curious game can cast.

An accumulator par excellence, a relentless machine, the modern game's most complete and decorated player - they're all words that sum up Gary Ablett jnr. When it comes to his dad, there are no words that could do him justice.”


I've never bought into the inconsistency tag Ablett Snr cops from time to time. You have to be pretty consistent to manage 1000 goals in under 250 games.
I think the disparity between his best, and then his 'normal' performances was quite significant. A normal game was often 13 touches, 5 marks and 3 goals whereas his best was 18 touches, 10 marks and 7 goals. It left the public wanting more of that.
This is also why his finals record gets brought up. The footballing world expected a repeat of the 1989 series on numerous occasions.

Michael Tuck summed it up best for me Tuck: Ablett Snr better than Jnr
This is early 2014 when Junior was at the very peak of his powers having won a second Brownlow medal the previous year.

I do feel as though winning means a lot. Senior never won a flag. He did his best on one occasion. Satisfactory in another and terrible in the other two. Had that team won a flag, I think he would be widely considered the GOAT.
Unfortunately, he never did and that is why Matthews will remain the best the game has ever seen.
 

Bombermania

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 18, 2007
10,687
6,487
Counting premiership cups
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Non that play Essendon
The problem with judging players by Norm Smiths and Brownlows is that for many years they went to players in the winning teams which downplays the greatness of players in less successful clubs and the great sides had players taking votes of each other.
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
35,315
39,261
AFL Club
Geelong
The problem with judging players by Norm Smiths and Brownlows is that for many years they went to players in the winning teams which downplays the greatness of players in less successful clubs and the great sides had players taking votes of each other.
And downplays the efforts of a player who may have been the second best player on the field in three winning finals, and gets beaten on GF day by someone who was unsighted in two other finals and pips the other guy over the space of one game.

Again to use a cricket analogy (boring but it’s my favourite sport so the easiest)

Damien Martyn smacked 90 or something at better than a run a ball in a 220 run partnership with Ricky Ponting in the 2003 World Cup final. He didn’t win an award for that.

David Boon made 70 in the 1987 final and won the award.

Does that automatically make David Boon a) a better one day cricketer and b) the owner of the better World Cup final performance?
 

The_Eagles

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 30, 2005
5,714
1,857
North Fremantle
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
australia
Carey
Franklin
Ablett Snr
Ablett Jnr
Lockett
Dunstall
Martin
Judd
Voss
Williams
Hird
Ricciuto
Buckley
Cousins
Lloyd
Fyfe
N Riewoldt
Black
Goodes
Dangerfield
Matera
McLeod
Akermanis
R Harvey
Hodge
Mitchell
Tredrea
Pavlich
Brown
Cox
Gawn
Scarlett
Selwood
Pendlebury
Rance
Hawkins
Kennedy
J Riewoldt
Jakovich
Roos
Grant
Crawford
Richardson
Johnson
Swan
West
Kelly
Kemp
Kerr
Bradley
Bontempelli
Kennedy
Hall
Daicos
Ayres
Enright… a blanket over 100 men probably
 

beerbandit

Club Legend
Mar 7, 2006
1,422
1,231
AFL Club
Collingwood
And? Jimmy Bartel, multiple AA, Brownlow medallist, norm smith medalist, part of either the best or second best midfield rotation of the last 33 years, 3 time flag winner, finals specialist?

Enright 6 time all Australian 3 flags, two B and F in flag years.
Selwood 3 flags. 6 AA, 3 time AA captain, 4 time Most Courageous player winner, 3 time best and fairest, rising star winner.
Brad Johnson 6 time AA, nearly 600 goals as a small forward, 3 time best and fairest.

If you’re trying to win this argument that these players ‘aren’t in the same stratosphere as Pendlebury’ using honours as your guide, you might want to stop.
Pendles has been better then Enright, Selwood and Brad Johnson, but hey it’s opinion based yeah? From Collingwood I’d go as far to say Dane Swan would be close. Buckley, Pendles & Peter Daicos definitely in best 50.
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
35,315
39,261
AFL Club
Geelong
Pendles has been better then Enright, Selwood and Brad Johnson, but hey it’s opinion based yeah? From Collingwood I’d go as far to say Dane Swan would be close. Buckley, Pendles & Peter Daicos definitely in best 50.


There’s not much else it would be based on.
 

Lingsface

Club Legend
May 9, 2005
2,347
377
perth
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
Carey
Franklin
Ablett Snr
Ablett Jnr
Lockett
Dunstall
Martin
Judd
Voss
Williams
Hird
Ricciuto
Buckley
Cousins
Lloyd
Fyfe
N Riewoldt
Black
Goodes
Dangerfield
Matera
McLeod
Akermanis
R Harvey
Hodge
Mitchell
Tredrea
Pavlich
Brown
Cox
Gawn
Scarlett
Selwood
Pendlebury
Rance
Hawkins
Kennedy
J Riewoldt
Jakovich
Roos
Grant
Crawford
Richardson
Johnson
Swan
West
Kelly
Kemp
Kerr
Bradley
Bontempelli
Kennedy
Hall
Daicos
Ayres
Enright… a blanket over 100 men probably
Great list there
 

Falcon3518

Premiership Player
Mar 13, 2022
3,274
1,726
AFL Club
Richmond
Carey
Franklin
Ablett Snr
Ablett Jnr
Lockett
Dunstall
Martin
Judd
Voss
Williams
Hird
Ricciuto
Buckley
Cousins
Lloyd
Fyfe
N Riewoldt
Black
Goodes
Dangerfield
Matera
McLeod
Akermanis
R Harvey
Hodge
Mitchell
Tredrea
Pavlich
Brown
Cox
Gawn
Scarlett
Selwood
Pendlebury
Rance
Hawkins
Kennedy
J Riewoldt
Jakovich
Roos
Grant
Crawford
Richardson
Johnson
Swan
West
Kelly
Kemp
Kerr
Bradley
Bontempelli
Kennedy
Hall
Daicos
Ayres
Enright… a blanket over 100 men probably

That’s a good list


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

beerbandit

Club Legend
Mar 7, 2006
1,422
1,231
AFL Club
Collingwood
There’s not much else it would be based on.
Yeah that’s right, I’ve been watching footy since the early 80s and the best player I’ve seen is Gary Ablett Jnr. He’s dad was good but behind he’s son, Wayne Carey, Dunstall and Lockett for mine. Also Voss, Hird, Franklin, Buckley and Judd would be top 10

In order for me top 10 since early 80s

1 - Ablett Jnr
2 - Lockett
3 - Dunstall
4 - Carey
5 - Ablett Snr
6 - Voss
7 - Franklin
8 - Judd
9 - Buckley
10 - Hird
 

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