Roast Topping up on senior players was the wrong move

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Vdubs

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"mongrel" is an intangible description and really cannot be quantified, in the end it is left to opinion. Some people might think it is willing to be a bit dirty if necessary, Mooney and Milburn had that type of mongrel. Some people might think it is being super aggressive, some people might think it is willing to take cheap shots. I think we have a big problem with team ethos including standing up for your teammates, supporting and encouraging your teammates. We used to have that and most teams have elements of that, Richmond have it in barrels we have it in cups.

2007-2011 occasionally other sides would claim we were soft and they'd get dirty, when a hit took place our players would remonstrate and shove and push as much as any...but usually they would get angry and play harder and utterly destroy the opposition. Other sides got to learn not to get dirty with Geelong you will awake the beast.

I think Joel Selwood, Tom Hawkins and Tom Stewart have "mongrel" (from what I think it means), but collectively there is a problem and I think Paddy really needs to assert himself sometimes, as a senior player.
I think you're correct- Selwood and Stewart- for sure, whatever it takes to win a contest. Hawkins maybe.
 
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The Sim Dog

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Claiming that Collingwood has 'mongrel' while we do not is either irrelevant or incorrect by the fact that we beat them the only time we played them. Our injuries throughout the year were far greater than the Pies.

The discussion is either supported by facts or unsupported, in your case it is unsupported. 'Mongrel' when applied to a list without supported evidence is essentially vague, we could certainly do with a Jack Viney...or two. So could Collingwood. The cheap claim of "immature" is meaningless when applied to the discussion and is an attempt to attack the character rather than the content.
Oh come on now. We beat Melbourne twice in the regular season this year too. And Richmond last year. Didn't mean **** when the whips were really cracking. Both are significantly better than us or are until we properly review our footy department and crap style of footy.

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Vdubs

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Claiming that Collingwood has 'mongrel' while we do not is either irrelevant or incorrect by the fact that we beat them the only time we played them. Our injuries throughout the year were far greater than the Pies.

The discussion is either supported by facts or unsupported, in your case it is unsupported. 'Mongrel' when applied to a list without supported evidence is essentially vague, we could certainly do with a Jack Viney...or two. So could Collingwood. The cheap claim of "immature" is meaningless when applied to the discussion and is an attempt to attack the character rather than the content.
Very disputable.
In fact, without researching this, from memory, Pies would easily win on significant injuries this year.

edit- just looking at their major outs this season
This list is huge.
Goldsack
Appleby
Dunn
Scharenberg
Moore
Howe
Varcoe
Wells
Elliott
Reid
Treloar
Fasolo
Broomhead
 
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Peter Wallis

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I don't know. But I do know we beat them earlier this year and am quite confident we can beat them again.
I agree that mongrel is not the right word. Hardness & physicality at the contest is what Richmond & Melbourne have in spades. Gut running & the willingness to run both ways also seems to be lacking in teams, not just Geelong & the recent successful teams have built their recent successes on this style of play.

The Bulldogs won a flag in 2016 based on these traits (which has been mostly lacking since) but if you compare the Bulldogs team of 2016 to Geelong of today for pure talent, Geelong are the more talented group. We won the flag that year because we had a group of committed & dedicated players that believed in the game style & were prepared to put their bodies on the line, there weren't any mongrels or dirty players in our side, but they never gave up even when things weren't working.

Certainly players like Selwood & Stewart epitomise what is required at Geelong in terms of effort & commitment but they need others to follow them & then I am sure they can contend again.
 

steady2

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Very disputable.
In fact, without researching this, from memory, Pies would easily win on significant injuries this year.

edit- just looking at their major outs this season
This list is huge.
Goldsack
Appleby
Dunn
Scharenberg
Moore
Howe
Varcoe
Wells
Elliott
Reid
Treloar
Fasolo
Broomhead
I do not think that list is bigger than ours, nor are the injuries as crucial as ours. I'm quite sure Stanley and Esava being fit, in form and available against Melbourne would have made a big difference. Fasolo couldn't get a game and several of those other players were dropped at various times.
 

steady2

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Oh come on now. We beat Melbourne twice in the regular season this year too. And Richmond last year. Didn't mean **** when the whips were really cracking. Both are significantly better than us or are until we properly review our footy department and crap style of footy.

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Your post is irrelevant to what I said.
 

steady2

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I agree that mongrel is not the right word. Hardness & physicality at the contest is what Richmond & Melbourne have in spades. Gut running & the willingness to run both ways also seems to be lacking in teams, not just Geelong & the recent successful teams have built their recent successes on this style of play.

The Bulldogs won a flag in 2016 based on these traits (which has been mostly lacking since) but if you compare the Bulldogs team of 2016 to Geelong of today for pure talent, Geelong are the more talented group. We won the flag that year because we had a group of committed & dedicated players that believed in the game style & were prepared to put their bodies on the line, there weren't any mongrels or dirty players in our side, but they never gave up even when things weren't working.

Certainly players like Selwood & Stewart epitomise what is required at Geelong in terms of effort & commitment but they need others to follow them & then I am sure they can contend again.
I agree with all you said. The discussion was over Collingwood and the claim that they have 'mongrel' and we don't. I still think we can match them next year as we did this year.
 

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Landgraft

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In the future, sure, that is an indefinite .
In their current frame of play, no way.We would not get near them.
I just don't understand how anyone looks at the way the finals have played out in the last few years and thinks "oh okay, now we know what to expect out of any given matchup".

So much changes from week to week, between different matchups, etc. Maybe we wouldn't get Collingwood, maybe we would, but nobody can actually make a definitive statement to that effect.
 

Partridge

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I just don't understand how anyone looks at the way the finals have played out in the last few years and thinks "oh okay, now we know what to expect out of any given matchup".

So much changes from week to week, between different matchups, etc. Maybe we wouldn't get Collingwood, maybe we would, but nobody can actually make a definitive statement to that effect.
I just look at our results. Last year we had a great win over a nemesis in Sydney, but that was sandwiched between two absolute beltings by both Grand finalists.

This year, we got thrashed in an Elimination final. If nothing else it shows we dropped a fair bit.
 

Landgraft

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I just look at our results. Last year we had a great win over a nemesis in Sydney, but that was sandwiched between two absolute beltings by both Grand finalists.

This year, we got thrashed in an Elimination final. If nothing else it shows we dropped a fair bit.
You'd have been better off sticking with the 'nothing else' side of things.

One game just isn't really proof of anything... and who's to say that Melbourne in the 2018 EF were better or worse than Richmond in the 2017 QF? There's too much inference and assumption to reasonably settle on that conclusion.
 

Partridge

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You'd have been better off sticking with the 'nothing else' side of things.

One game just isn't really proof of anything... and who's to say that Melbourne in the 2018 EF were better or worse than Richmond in the 2017 QF? There's too much inference and assumption to reasonably settle on that conclusion.
One side went on to win the flag. The other got thrashed in a Prelim. I’ll go with Richmond 2017.
 

Frappe

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[
I just don't understand how anyone looks at the way the finals have played out in the last few years and thinks "oh okay, now we know what to expect out of any given matchup".

So much changes from week to week, between different matchups, etc. Maybe we wouldn't get Collingwood, maybe we would, but nobody can actually make a definitive statement to that effect.
The one reasonably predictable outcome has been that we can be caught napping in the first quarter.
 

Nickoo

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I thought it after they won that VFL flag together, but not before then.
2002 VFL premiership side, featuring Marc Woolnough, Matthew McCarthy, Peter Street, David Mensch, James Rahilly, Jimmy Bartel, Josh Hunt, Steve Johnson, Danny O'Brien, Tim McGrath, David Johnson, Brent Grgic, Daniel Foster, Adam Chatfield, Mitchell White, Gary Ablett Jr, Will Slade, James Kelly and Paul Chapman

Ling, Scarlo, Enright, Mooney and Dasher all permanent seniors by then.
 

Nickoo

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I don't think Scooter should be kept. I hope he retires or is relegated to the VFL to give some experience to the youngsters. Taylor I'm not so sure, I thought he was reasonable against the Dees and more value than Hendo. Hendo should probably be moved, has played some good games but for a first round pick we dudded ourselves.
or he's reassigned to best spot and that isn't the fwd line.
 

Nickoo

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It sounds good and it is, but you've gotta factor in the debuts of
2E- 27yo from Carlton
Crameri- Gone
Black - Gone
Kelly- Gone either this year or next.
Parsons - Not looking good
Buzza- Not looking good at all.


But yeah still some awesome ones in Stewart and Henry who almost look certain to be good long servants of the club.
Possibly Savrat and Parfitt too.
Unpopular to say it but Parsons is someone they think is good; he will come good.

Very much out of sorts and also a bit of second year blues.

Just as a note I would love to be able to find those that were wanting Bics sacked and removed from the club ASAP not 12 months ago.
 

Nickoo

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Only 31% of players reach 50 games, 17% 100 games & 9% 150 games. So expectations in terms of how many of those 15 make it probably needs to be low. If 3 of them end up playing 150 games (20%), then that will be a great outcome.
31% gosh thats low. I have heard people say that most players leaving the sport do so before 23. So when drafted you have a 50% chance i think of being discarded by the age of 23 if not sooner. Very few players looking at this get beyond 100 games.

Well done Murda!! what a legend.
 

Vdubs

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2002 VFL premiership side, featuring Marc Woolnough, Matthew McCarthy, Peter Street, David Mensch, James Rahilly, Jimmy Bartel, Josh Hunt, Steve Johnson, Danny O'Brien, Tim McGrath, David Johnson, Brent Grgic, Daniel Foster, Adam Chatfield, Mitchell White, Gary Ablett Jr, Will Slade, James Kelly and Paul Chapman

Ling, Scarlo, Enright, Mooney and Dasher all permanent seniors by then.
where was Wojo?
 

Nickoo

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Kelly is a contracted player and will be playing for Geelong until the end of next season. In 12 months it is possible we may consider a trade if he wants to return to WA and a suitable offer is made. He has expressed no desire to leave, at the moment, despite rumours which you are feeding.

Your comment "... just enjoy AFL & have 2 eyes & not 1 like you clearly have mate." was not meant to be offensive! I guess we have a different opinion over what is good manners when visiting another team's board.
In 12months time he will be out of contract and we wont be able to trade him. He'll be free to do as he wishes. He'll only need us to ensure he gets to the club of choice.
 

Gee Class Loco

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All great
but we decided to reach for Lang, Thurlow, Brown, Smedts
and then throw out Varcoe for nix
and then trade Caddy for minimal return

Our issue is our own, we went in too many drafts arrogant early
how we dont have a huge amount of $$$ is ridiculous, half our team are juniors

collingwood have regrouped but have mongrel, we have no mongrel
We reached ?? You do know Brown Thurlow and Smedts were all ranked by many pundits between 15-25 in their respective years?? I’ll give u Lang but not a hope in hell you can convince me on the other 3 without your Harry Hindsight Glasses on. As for CaddyShack he is and always will be a spud for me. 8 years of AFL footy with 1 top 10 finish in a B&F sums him up to a T. Yeah yeah I get it ... You have this thing about Caddy. Wonder if we got pick 17 for him(a 1st rounder) and still pick Parfitt you’d still bang on about being ripped off?? I wonder? Coz I reckon he’s a ripper.
As for cash$$$$ you do realise every club has got to spend 95% of their cap??
Cheers & Go Catters!!


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