Towards 2015...

[Senatorguesty]

See I see us slipping further in the next two-four and then rising again - in which case new draftees (think of a Duncan, Menzel, Christensen, Sidebottom, Beams) could easily be in the best 22 by the next peak.

BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS YEAR is our drop!!!!!
We WILL return to the top 4 next year for ANOTHER era of multiple flags!!!
We WILL become the greatest team of all time by winning 9 of 14 flags!!!
YE WHO DOUBT THEM WILL BE ETERNALLY BURNED IN THE FIRES OF HELL!!!!!!!!!








I mean yeah fair point....

 

[SuperCats9]

It's exciting to see that as our possible team in 2015, but at the same time, kinda sad that the names like Scarlett, Enright, Kelly, Bartel, Johnson, Wojo, Mackie, Chapman etc are not there, doesn't look/feel right. Wish those guys could just play forever.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I'm the opposite, I'd rather 'go to the well' (with Wells) and use two first round picks. With Boak you get half a career out of an A grader. With two first round picks (and our drafting record) I reckon we'd get at least that, with a far greater ceiling.

I do agree with you the ceiling is much greater but the risk is also higher. For every Fyfe there's a Sheppard, for every Menzel a Moore, for every Bastinac a Lucas, and for every Selwood a Thorp. Even in the hands of the best recruiter draft picks are more of a risk. Boak might give you less ultimately but there's less risk as he's a very good player who will become better here. He's not going to bust, and we don't know whether picks will.

That said, that's not really my concern, I'd be willing to back Wells in. My concern is more that if we go down the 'keep the picks and draft for the future idea' does it mean Selwood hasto carry the midfield on his back for the next 3-4 years while we wait for those kids to mature? For me the biggest reason to get Boak, apart from his ability, is that he'd give Sel a lot of support and ultimately extend his career I think.

 

[topic97]

It's exciting to see that as our possible team in 2015, but at the same time, kinda sad that the names like Scarlett, Enright, Kelly, Bartel, Johnson, Wojo, Mackie, Chapman etc are not there, doesn't look/feel right. Wish those guys could just play forever.

Meh, it never felt right without blokes like Ablett(snr), Brownless, Couch, Bews, Hocking & Co. either but time goes on as it will with our current crop of champions.

I really think we need to get Boak instead of picks for mids as we still have a great chance to challenge hard in the next few years otherwise we risk wasting champions who are realistically just hitting their prime.
Think guys like Taylor, Lonergan, Enright, Kelly, SJ etc.
These guys still have a lot to offer in terms of fantastic football and it would be a waste if we went in to full rebuilding phase considering that drafting kids it usually takes them a few seasons to come on.

 

[topic97]

That said, that's not really my concern, I'd be willing to back Wells in. My concern is more that if we go down the 'keep the picks and draft for the future idea' does it mean Selwood hasto carry the midfield on his back for the next 3-4 years while we wait for those kids to mature? For me the biggest reason to get Boak, apart from his ability, is that he'd give Sel a lot of support and ultimately extend his career I think.

Agreed.
Years gone by, when our midfield was leaps and bounds ahead of the competition when we had Selwood, Ablett, Bartel & Kelly absolutely firing, opposition was always torn between which one to tag.
Youd tag Ablett then Selwood would have a field day & vice versa.

At this point, Selwood is by far our best midfielder and unless he can get immediate releif by way of a player like Boak, he will always draw the #1 tagger week in week out.

 

[Senatorguesty]

Meh, it never felt right without blokes like Ablett(snr), Brownless, Couch, Bews, Hocking & Co. either but time goes on as it will with our current crop of champions.

I really think we need to get Boak instead of picks for mids as we still have a great chance to challenge hard in the next few years otherwise we risk wasting champions who are realistically just hitting their prime.
Think guys like Taylor, Lonergan, Enright, Kelly, SJ etc.
These guys still have a lot to offer in terms of fantastic football and it would be a waste if we went in to full rebuilding phase considering that drafting kids it usually takes them a few seasons to come on.

Thats my point about getting Boak now. Our kids are getting games and experience NOW and have already gained 2-3 years on their development so in theory they are 2 years away from being able to play near their best. Boak would come in and play his best almost straight away (maybe 1 year to settle in) so in theory our kids will be hitting their prime around 2015, our current youngish guns will be already in their prime (Hawkins, Selwood, Varcoe etc) and our veterans are still performing at a high level (Stevie J, Taylor, Lonergan etc) so with Boak in that second group its a perfect premiership winning combo IMO.
We NEED others to help out Selwood in the middle, no doubt as experience comes guys like Bundy and Duncan will need to be checked by opposition but we really do need another hard bodied inside mid to help our Skipper out and we dont really have any who will fill that roll, a few who will a few years later though I believe (Hyphen, maybe Sheringham etc) but we need it sooner than later.
Plus if/when those kids do fill that roll would it hurt if we had another anyway??
If we recruit instead we could potentially be in the position where our senior group will be ripe for a flag yet our kids wont be close enough and then when the kids DO reach that mark the senior guys will be gone leaving both groups without anything to show for it.
Its similar to what the Dogs did IMO, they needed tall forwards 3 years before they started to recruit and develop them hence the really really good side who were 1 step away never got the flag they may have deserved and now the young guys wont either yet if they had of gotten hold of a good KPF in say 2007 who knows what would have happened.....

I feel for us to fulfill our "2015" plan (and I can see it easily) we need to get Boak or a similar player. For picks say 15/16 or 19/20 I think most supporters would be ok with that.... Were we ok with losing Moloney for Ottens? Greater good and all that...

 

[Jmac2225]

Thought I'd have a crack with age in ()

B Guthrie (23). Lonergan (31). Murdoch (23).

HB Mackie (31). Taylor (29). Hunt (24).

C Christensen (24). Boak (27). Duncan (24).

HF Varcoe (27). Vardy (24). Menzel (24).

F Motlop (24). Hawkins (27). Johnson(30).

Foll. Simpson (26). Selwood (27). Kelly (31).

Int: West (27). Smedts (23). Bartel (31). Stringer (24).
lot..

Looks like a premiership side to me.

Simpson is still a big Q mark for mine and I am hoping that Brown will make it in some position. He moves well and can use the ball well a lot of posters think he isn't strong enough for a KPP but doesn't mean he can't bulk up or if that fails turn into a medium defender or forward.

 

[supahoops]

I do agree with you the ceiling is much greater but the risk is also higher. For every Fyfe there's a Sheppard, for every Menzel a Moore, for every Bastinac a Lucas, and for every Selwood a Thorp. Even in the hands of the best recruiter draft picks are more of a risk. Boak might give you less ultimately but there's less risk as he's a very good player who will become better here. He's not going to bust, and we don't know whether picks will.

That said, that's not really my concern, I'd be willing to back Wells in. My concern is more that if we go down the 'keep the picks and draft for the future idea' does it mean Selwood hasto carry the midfield on his back for the next 3-4 years while we wait for those kids to mature? For me the biggest reason to get Boak, apart from his ability, is that he'd give Sel a lot of support and ultimately extend his career I think.

You've hit the nail on the head with selwood, let's say these 2 picks turn out to be a graders, but it might take them 4-7 years to become so. Not sure Joel can keep his body sound for that long the way he is going. And let's not forget hawk will be targeted as our key forward from hereon in and may slow up in his late twenties similar to j brown. I've got enough faith in wells' later selections such as Murdoch and McCarthy last year to give up an early one or two and see if we can't snag one or two more in selwoods time, he deserves to have raised a Geelong premiership cup as much as anyone.

 

[Belisarius]

I really don't get it. Why are so many Cats supporters thinking we slide next year and not be in the hunt until 2015 (where's Bobby when you need him ?) ?

I personally believe we will be a stronger unit next season than this one - and many think we will give it a shake this season.

Next season we will get back - fit and ready to go and a whole season to get their touch back - Simpson, Vardy, Menzel and Varcoe. Not a bad group to get back IMO. A ruckman, who we desperately need, a KPF to take over from Pods, an X factor player and a some true leg speed. Just what the doctor ordered.

Then we have Bundy, Duncan, THunt, Motlop and West getting close to (or just above) 50 AFL games. Generally a key time when enough pre-seasons nd AFL experience has been done to see them become more consistent and even star occasionally.

We also have the Hyphen, Murdoch, Smedts, McCarthy, Stringer, Brown, Eardley, Guthrie, Kersten, Schroder and Walker getting senior experience.

Sure we lose Wojo and Scarlett - but overall I think we are a stronger, faster and bigger unit.

Wow - I just convinced myself we will win the 2013 flag !

With the right coaching and mentoring (which we do well) - we have depth and quite a few potential star players to come thru IMO.

If we add Boak to the mix, and I am coming around to think we are better than 50/50 to get him now, we will certainly be top 4.

The Hawks, Pies, Sydney and WC all have aging stars too - so expect they will lose a player or two in the next 2 seasons as well.

Then we still may get a player or two in this draft that may come thru in 2014. And we rarely miss with our first pick - so I expect Hamling to come thru in 2 seasons as well.

We are, with a good run with injuries, looking really good for 4-5 year. Starting now and getting better each season for a while to come. Just my take on it.

This will be the hardest Premiership to win - each season after it will get easier IMO.

 

[Jmac2225]

Belisarius I don't think we are expecting us to slide next year IMO I think most of us think we will still be top 8 and vying to grab the premiership cup.

I think they just acknowledge that 2015 is likely the time all our younger gun players will be getting around that 100 game mark and about 24 years old when players are generally expected to start "peaking".

Also 2015 the year Scotty often refers to when he says things like this year is as much about 2015 as it is 2011 for the GFC.

 

[supahoops]

I'm assuming the thread was started on the basis of CScotts comments re 2015, but I'm sure he'll be giving us every chance in the 13 and 14 seasons just as he's doing now, his seamless melding of youth into the team has been first rate. While the kids are still developing we will still have chappy/Corey next year and Boris/j hunt the following year and as a supporter that's all you can really ask. It must be hard for some clubs supporters to sign up every year in the knowledge that their no real chance of making finals let alone going all the way. Our futures bright.

 

[Just do something]

Its great to see how all these champions have turned out. I was having a quiet day at work yesterday and happen to stumble across the last 20mins of the 2002 VFL GF on you tube. In that side on that day was Bartel,Gazza,SJ,Kelly,Hunt as well as the Great Mcarthy!!. It was great to see there body shapes then and how much bigger they have become. Also the way they played hadn't changed from VFL to Seniors. You think we had 2 Brownlow medallists,3 Norm Smiths and Multiple AAs just from those 5 players alone.

There is no doubt we are building players again just like we did in 2002. It seems like a carbon copy.
Just on a side note late in that game Phil Cleary makes the comment re Peter Street "he could be a legend of the game!! Oops got that one wrong philthy!! Also watching the game i wonder how Mark Wollnough may have ended up. He was a good mover and had a big frame as a kid

 

[Just do something]

Left out Chappy how could i. If you havent seen it on you tube have a look it goes for 12 mins. Gets the shiver down the spine again!!

 

[supahoops]

Its great to see how all these champions have turned out. I was having a quiet day at work yesterday and happen to stumble across the last 20mins of the 2002 VFL GF on you tube. In that side on that day was Bartel,Gazza,SJ,Kelly,Hunt as well as the Great Mcarthy!!. It was great to see there body shapes then and how much bigger they have become. Also the way they played hadn't changed from VFL to Seniors. You think we had 2 Brownlow medallists,3 Norm Smiths and Multiple AAs just from those 5 players alone.

There is no doubt we are building players again just like we did in 2002. It seems like a carbon copy.
Just on a side note late in that game Phil Cleary makes the comment re Peter Street "he could be a legend of the game!! Oops got that one wrong philthy!! Also watching the game i wonder how Mark Wollnough may have ended up. He was a good mover and had a big frame as a kid

Had a look at that the other day too, gee I had high hopes for McCarthy and a couple of others back then, can't complain with that crop though. Guess they can't all make it but I can't see too many from the current team that won't give it a good go..

As for Cleary, giving Geelong a rap is pretty rare from him, could have at least got it right..

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

You think we had 2 Brownlow medallists,3 Norm Smiths and Multiple AAs just from those 5 players alone.

Matt 'The Natural' McCarthy could have won all of those awards at once if they had've kept playing him. And the Coleman. Not to mention a Rising Star.

Unfortunately we'll never really know what could have been...

 

[supahoops]

Matt 'The Natural' McCarthy could have won all of those awards at once if they had've kept playing him. And the Coleman. Not to mention a Rising Star.

Unfortunately we'll never really know what could have been...

What was the reason for his departure in the end? Thought he could've been anything and it's not as if we had a shed full of key forwards at that point in time. Seemed to revel in the wet, a bit like hawk IIRC

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

What was the reason for his departure in the end? Thought he could've been anything and it's not as if we had a shed full of key forwards at that point in time. Seemed to revel in the wet, a bit like hawk IIRC

You know, apart from the advent of the 'Roo Two' in Kent Kingsley and Cameron Mooney squeezing him out (Andrew Mackie was another forward line failure, though luckily Bomber found a better use for him) I don't really know.

Forward line issues plagued us for a while, it's fair to say.

 

[supahoops]

Ahh Kent ..'Nuff said

The other bloke turned out alright though, surely those three could've worked together

Maybe I only remember his good attributes and forgot the bad..

 

[Turbocat]

A thing to note for a couple of the positive posts rel. to glorious expectations -

Some players can look like they are the future when all they are not that all. They are just the boys that have a position due to us not having the right players yet. Some may have thought McCarthy or Street or whoever were locked in to be AFL regulars but as we look back on it now it all seemed so clear and obvious that they were only good honest triers that were not up to it.

So , why I love , Bells confidence , time has engraved in my consciousness a degree a skepticism. To replace a side as good as we have been with another just as good is almost unparalleled in the history of the game. Is it possible? Yes but I've seen too many Marc Woolnough's ( thought of as better than Scarlett at the time of drafting) , too many Kane Tenace's let alone the Mathew Spencers or Kent Kinsleys etc to think every thing we touch turns to gold.

So its very much the glass. Half full/Half empty.

I will say this , clubs like Geelong and Collingwood are not going to deliberately tank to get early picks. They believe that more than just a talented kid is needed and that believe has been reinforced by success. Unlike some at other clubs like Carlton who might give lip service to growing your own , they really have a solid heritage in buying flags and I wonder how long it will be before they return for a whack at FA's Geelong therefore have this unproven belief that a club doesn't have to bottom out. Geelong as club rarely ever travels that path anyway but now we also believe that you can climb from the muck of mediocrity without being enhanced by a period of non competitiveness.ie. Success is in your own circle of influence.

Is this true. How much of our success was just plain dumb luck. Not much but there was a bit.

Most opposition believe that we might not have been gifted Priority picks but we were Father Sons. In spite of the idiocy of this assertion , I do agree we have been fortuneate to have had the final quality Scarlett & Ablett from FS is a bit lucky. Even to have had the option to recruit FS is to a degree lucky , no matter how they look at youth , its lucky to have the chance. We could put in the same effort , to our next FS and still not get players to a Scarlett or an Ablett level.

Have we been luck at the draft table? A bit. Selwood has to be considered luck. Looking back , P7 was just insane. One of the classic tactics of Wells is to pick to the "out of fashion" quality kid. Selwood, Varcoe, Christensen.. all know to be talented but all lost favor due to reasons Wells saw past. How would it have been if this had gone the other way. Selwood knee ,gone, Varcoe never recovered from his foot and Bundy never hold the weight off....

I could go an on. Luck has played a part. But some would say , the harder you work , the luckier you get. True as well.

In the end , the way I see. 2015. It comes down to what appears to be happening at North atm. The blossoming of good, to very good to great. If Hawkins continues on the current path , if Selwood's head and knee last to 250 games , if we recruit a player or two that become as good as Ottens , if some others whether they be Murdoch or Smedts or Menzel or Duncan or someone not even at the club yet , become our our next great player, AA star or even dare I hope legend . Do that and we are well on the way to 2015Era2

 

[Belisarius]

I think Wells has performed like a typical excellent footballer. He started only so-so in his early years and learning the game (of recruiting) from his mistakes he as just got better and better as the years have flowed past.

I for one, had concerns about Lonergan (in the forward line), I had concerns about Mackie, Bartel, Varcoe, Hawkins and even Enright early on. Well did those concerns evaporate - after a few seasons.

I accept now that some players, unlike Selwood, just take time. Real time - like 3-4 seasons. Its just the way it works for most. You have to make mistakes to learn - as long as you learn.

So I think we are in good shape with Wells picking our future players - he is just a very, very good selector of football players and people. Less luck involved than perhaps some believe.

Yes I am bullish on the Cats. I think we have the mentors, the coaches, the admin, the culture, the leaders and the facilities to stay near the top for some years to come.

If Wells gets the right recruits - we can turn them into very, very good team players - to create another champion team.

Perhaps we will never be as good as the Mark 1 GFC team (2007-2011) - but we do not need to be that good to win another Premiership before 2015. Just look at what Hawthorn did in 2008. They should never have won that flag but history says they did.

Mark 2 seems (2012 - 2016) to me to have had a pretty auspicious start. Yes we still rely on some pretty good Mark 1 players but we have seen the emergence of some pretty good new players in the AFL side this year (and some from last year - there is never a time when there is not an overlap).

Until these players hit 50-100 games we will not truly know how good they will be IMO. But I am willing to take a bet that out of these players we will see some excellent footballers that will rival some of the players of the Mark 1 team.

Bundy, Duncan, Thunt, Motlop, West, Smedts, Brown, Schroder, Guthrie, Hamling, Hyphen, Kersten, Murdoch, McCarthy, Simpson, Stringer, Menzel, Walker and Vardy (19 players).

Too many not have quite a few make it and make it well. They do not have to be outright stars - as a few of the Mark 1 side were not outright stars in their own right. They complimented each other very well.

On top of that we still have Varcoe, Hawkins, Harry Taylor, Selwood, Mackie, Lonergan, Bartel, Kelly and SJ (9 players) - who will likely be around for another 3 + years (2015).

In this time period we will for sure pick up 3-6 players re the ND and/or by trading.

So yes it is guess work - but in 2006 who saw this period of true and statistical greatness coming ?

Perhaps I just see that we are in better shape now than we were in 2006. We have so much more in place now than we did then.

They say you need a lot to go right to win a flag. I think we have done the hard yards, learned from the mistakes we have made and are much better club for it. All the things that have gone wrong has not diminished us. A lot is already right at GFC - and with that very solid foundation in place we can win another flag before 2015 IMO.

 

[Claude Balls]

I'm with Senatorguesty and PO etc re Boak. Wells might indeed pick up a gun kid with the comp pick, or our first round pick, but even if he does, they'd have to be Fyfe good to contribute more in 2015 and 2016 than what
Boak could, as a mature, good to very good inside midfielder. I say this as well with the view that Selwood looks a little lonely as a prospective A-grade inside-mid for 2015/16. GHS, Schroder etc are very much works in progress, and none of the more talented, more proven young players (like Duncan and Bundy) look genuinely suited to playing that particular role full time.

 

[Footy Smarts]

In all honesty I wouldn't mind just keeping a lid on it a bit. I think next year we might struggle a bit with the older guys getting a year older and a few more retiring.

There's still huge challenges the youngsters need to overcome to have that group be competitive for a premiership let alone to have an era like the recent one. Realistically we need all of Christensen, Menzel, Duncan, Smedts and Motlop to go from solid contributors to gun players who can dominate games and win them of their own boots. That's what we had with Selwood, Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Enright, Scarlett, Ottens, Chapman, Kelly, etc. That's a huge number of superstars to replace.

We also need Simpson to become a quality ruckman. I'm backing us to get the most out of our youngsters and get at the very least a bunch of really solid contributors. The question is whether we've got enough players with that something special to make them more than contributors and turn them in to stars.

 

[Partridge]

Drafting and list management knowledge is not my strong suit however I feel we need to go to the well soon and draft a couple of elite midfielders. There are a must-have to become a successful team and I feel that is where we have a bit of a black hole.

I honestly feel quantam mechanics would be easier than trying to predict how the side will look in 3 years' time. Just too many variables, and the unfortunate reality that not everyone will make it. The youngsters I've seen in the last 2-3 years give me a lot of confidence, but I'm not going to pencil in every name automatically, still so much unknown factors. It is almost like 2001 again though, as the midfield and defence was built first under Thompson the most older players are there, and that's where they'll need shoring up first. A couple of 20 year old Joel Coreys (as an example) would be ideal to support Selwood and company through the next few years. Of course I've got no doubt guys like Horlin-Smith and Schroeder will get opportunities too and could surprise us.

 

[Partridge]

What was the reason for his departure in the end? Thought he could've been anything and it's not as if we had a shed full of key forwards at that point in time. Seemed to revel in the wet, a bit like hawk IIRC

McCarthy? Easy one.

Absolutely.....could.....not.....kick. And just not good enough.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

I can remember the days when we were entertaining on the field , crap in the front Office and never viewed as a serious threat or as a powerful Club.
You had the feeling that the team had talent ( at times ) but the Club was never aligned throughout every layer and whilst we had potential it wasn't being realised.

The catalyst IMO has been the 2006 review spearheaded by Cook. It is incredible how that reality check has transformed us into a united , structured , visionary Club with enviable on field success. We have endured setbacks ( Gaz , Bomber) which, in the past, would have set us back years - and just shrugged them off. We have a vision and a mission that is unshakeable and the courage to see that through , also the wisdom to be flexible along the way. You can't help but be impressed with the professionalism our Leaders display and how that now permeates the Organisation.

You can't be Premiers every year but I am so confident that we will get the best out of resources each and every year , our culture will ensure that happens. We seem set for a tilt in 2014/15 but the aspect that I admire is that we are determined to be a contender in the finals each and every year. That is an objective that sets us apart from the rest and what makes it exciting is that we have the ability on and off the field to make it happen. Thank god my Grandfather took me to the footy and made me a Cat for life !!