Research Tracking down the 'missing Hawks'

[Gibbsy]

Skipper appears to be on facebook, living in Perth. He doesn't respond to messages though.

Apparently he's looking for work on LinkedIn too.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Partially related question -

Can anyone point me to the wiki page for Jack White, Hawthorn player no 181? I'm certain there used to be one...

Think he also went by John F. White.

The link from this page doesn't work

List of Hawthorn Football Club players - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jack_White_(footballer,_born_1912)&action=history - the article was nominated for deletion as subject was deemed not sufficiently notable... I fear there may be hundreds of these (which is partly why I've beefed up so many of the early Hawthorn ones in particular!)

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

For Frank Booth it appears there are no direct descendants - only death notice I can find was this one from SMH on 31/7/1974 and he does not share a surname with anyone at the same address where I have been able to trace him. Seems unlikely he married...

Closest living relatives I can trace are the daughters of his elder brother Norman William Booth (1912–2001) m Hilda Marjorie Lee (1910–1996) who are Frances Marjorie Booth and Alison Lee Booth - likely born in late 1940s.

Frances Marjorie Booth is (I believe) a doctor who graduated from U Syd in 1967 and received an AM in the 2006 Australia Day honours. She would be 81 now but I cannot see anything that suggests she has passed. She was residing in Hunters Hill in 2006.

Alison Lee Booth is a labour economist and novelist who is/was professor of economics at Australian National University (and would now be 79)

This should be enough to enable contact to be made by the club if desired

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Bill Brown is another player who has no direct descendants

His parents, William James Brown (1875–1925) and Charlotte Edwards (1875–1965), had five children:

• Ida Hollis Brown (1902–1975) m Norman Edwin Walker – no children from death notices
• Annie Lillian Brown (1904–1963) – never married; no known children
• William John Brown (1906–1981) – never married; no known children
• Amy Beatrice Brown (1913–1921) – died young
• Cyril Robert Brown (1918–1968) m Eileen Elizabeth Glen - one child

Bill lived with his mother & sister (Annie) until his mother’s death in 1965.

In subsequent electoral rolls Bill is living at 623 Melbourne Rd, Spotswood with his Cyril (until his death), Eileen and their son Kevin. Eileen died in 2005 and given Kevin first appears in electoral roll in 1972 he was likely born around 1950 (voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 in 1973).

So, closest relative we might find appears to be Kevin Robert Brown, born ~1950 and living in Spotswood until 1980. Ryerson Index indicates there was a death notice in the Herald Sun for Eileen on 9 Nov 2005 but it is not visible online. Hopefully it shows Kevin was still alive at that point but I haven’t been able to find any online presence for Kevin yet…

 

[35Daicos]

For Frank Booth it appears there are no direct descendants - only death notice I can find was this one from SMH on 31/7/1974 and he does not share a surname with anyone at the same address where I have been able to trace him. Seems unlikely he married...
View attachment 2539804
Closest living relatives I can trace are the daughters of his elder brother Norman William Booth (1912–2001) m Hilda Marjorie Lee (1910–1996) who are Frances Marjorie Booth and Alison Lee Booth - likely born in late 1940s.

Frances Marjorie Booth is (I believe) a doctor who graduated from U Syd in 1967 and received an AM in the 2006 Australia Day honours. She would be 81 now but I cannot see anything that suggests she has passed. She was residing in Hunters Hill in 2006.

Alison Lee Booth is a labour economist and novelist who is/was professor of economics at Australian National University (and would now be 79)

This should be enough to enable contact to be made by the club if desired

A tree on Ancestry does have this for him (without mentioning the name of a spouse):

So this may well have been his marriage:



This probably would be him, but why is he living with a Patricia Booth?! Is that Bertha (nee Hall)?

This does indicate that he was married at the time of his discharge from the Army (December 1943):


He gave his parents address as his intended place of living, which seems a bit odd.

Perhaps the marriage didn't last long, but who knows what went on there?!

 

[stemline]

WhiteHartLane23

Successfully made contact with Alison Booth via her publishing page.

This is really great, thanks again.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Fred Hansen has a complicated family history so apologies in advance for the long post...

Hansen served in the Navy from the age of 16 (entered R.A.N. on 11 Jun 1919) and married Mona Mabel Sibley on 22 Aug 1922 (aged 19).

They had two children together

• William Leon Hansen (Martin) (1923–2008); and
• Desmond Laurence Hansen (Martin) (1924–2006)

Mona soon left Fred for Clifford Isaac Martin and they divorced in late 1925. The two boys then became part of the Martin family and mostly used the Martin surname from that point onwards.

In 1927 Fred was named as a co-respondent in the divorce of Elsie May Aiston and Arthur Edwin Bounds. Fred and Elsie subsequently married in 1932 (but Fred used the name Frederick William Murphy for the marriage certificate!)

From WW2 service papers, they lived in South Australia from 1935 onwards & Elsie May is named as his next of kin. Fred was discharged from the Navy in 1942 due to a cerebral oedema

Elsie May Hansen died in South Australia in 1981 and I have not found any indication that Fred and Elsie had any children (but it is absolutely possible that they did)

So… looking at children from Fred’s first marriage

• William Leon Martin married Dorothy Tonkin (1928–1995) in early 1947 and, as per his death notice they had two sons

1. Kenneth William Martin (born Sep 1947) - Kenneth married Margaret Letitia Cowan and they had a son Gregory Philip Martin (b1970) but tragically both Kenneth and Gregory died in a road accident in 1973; and
2. John Martin (still alive in 2008 from William's death notice)

Listed grandchildren in William's death notice are Greg, Karlie and Mark, Lauren and Daniel, and Kyle. It is a bit unclear if all of these are direct descendants (or if some are by marriage) – my guess is Greg, Karlie, Lauren and Kyle might be the Martins and Mark & Daniel might be spouses of Karlie and Lauren.​

• Desmond Laurence Martin – some trees on Ancestry indicate a spouse but no evidence of children. He did use the name “Danny Hansen” at points.

Best bet seems to be tracing one of Greg, Karlie and Mark, Lauren and Daniel, and Kyle (these would be great grand-children of Fred) - likely born in 1970s/80s - any assistance would be welcome

 

[stemline]

I think I follow it all. Ignoring Fred's 2nd marriage, it's something like...



So Karlie and Lauren potentially with new surnames

 

[35Daicos]

I think I follow it all. Ignoring Fred's 2nd marriage, it's something like...

View attachment 2542293

So Karlie and Lauren potentially with new surnames

It would be interesting if that was the Kyle Martin who played for Collingwood a few years back! He was born in 1990. Any chance it's him (or might be a bit young looking at WHL's post)?!

 

[stemline]

It would be interesting if that was the Kyle Martin who played for Collingwood a few years back! He was born in 1990. Any chance it's him (or might be a bit young looking at WHL's post)?!

It's not impossible if he was the last of the kids... they do seem to have been named in a specific order in the death notice for William.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

I think I follow it all. Ignoring Fred's 2nd marriage, it's something like...

View attachment 2542293

So Karlie and Lauren potentially with new surnames

Close - only error is that John is the son of William and Dorothy... so the final generation shown are all descended from William Leon Martin

 

[stemline]

Close - only error is that John is the son of William and Dorothy... so the final generation shown are all descended from William Leon Martin

Ah ha. I will edit

 

[stemline]

Success guys! Made contact with Kyle Martin

Kyle Martin

Age

35

Ht

178cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

6.8

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.8

4star

(confirmed descendant of Fred Hansen) and will pass on his father John's contact details to the Hawks Museum next week.

For clarity, Kyle is the ex-Collingwood player. Carved out his own pretty decent local career - winning 13 B&Fs across 14 seasons!

Brilliant work all, thank you.

 

[35Daicos]

Success guys! Made contact with Kyle Martin (confirmed descendant of Fred Hansen) and will pass on his father John's contact details to the Hawks Museum next week.

Brilliant work all, thank you.

Wow, fantastic! So just to confirm, this is the Kyle Martin who played for Collingwood a few years back, and he is the great grandson of Fred Hansen?

 

[stemline]

Yes, sorry, just edited my post above a moment ago

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Great-grandfather: Fred Hansen.
Great-grandson: Kyle Martin

Kyle Martin

Age

35

Ht

178cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

6.8

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.8

4star

.

Ping Oliver G for AF website.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Fred Hansen becomes at the very least, the 23rd player in VFL/AFL history who has/had a great-grandson playing in the same league later.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Forgot to add 35Daicos.

An edit to Kyle's Collingwood Forever profile needs to happen at some point.

 

[35Daicos]

Forgot to add 35Daicos.

An edit to Kyle's Collingwood Forever profile needs to happen at some point.

I will pass the news of this 'revelation' on to the club historian!

 

[35Daicos]

Fred Hansen becomes at the very least, the 23rd player in VFL/AFL history who has/had a great-grandson playing in the same league later.


View attachment 2543926

There's a few more!:
BOB BIRD - MARK BEERS
******** - TONY BEERS
GEORGE CALLESEN - MICHAEL BROWNE
TOM DRUMMOND - NATHAN DRUMMOND
GORDON V. GREEN - LUKE MULLINS
VIC HILL - NED REEVES
FRED KEAYS - BEN KEAYS
JOHNNY F. LEWIS - DANIEL VENABLES
ROLAND LYNCH - JOBE WATSON
VIN MAGUIRE - LENNY HAYES
FRED MANN - PETER MANN
LEN MAXWELL - NICK MAXWELL
JIM MCSHANE - MICHAEL SMITH
ROBERT MICHAEL - MAL MICHAEL
DOUG NICHOLLS - NATHAN LOVETT-MURRAY
PAT O'DONNELL - GARY O'DONNELL
BERT SCHOFIELD - WILL SCHOFIELD

 

[RedmanWasHere]

FRED MANN - PETER MANN

I guess I better make a new entry in the great-great-grandfather-great-great-grandson list.

IIRC, Ed Allan is Fred's 2G-grandson.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

For Bernie Trafford can I recommended reaching out to Jayde Trafford (https://www.facebook.com/jayde.trafford) who seems to be a great grand-daughter of Bernie. This is a screenshot of her family tree on Ancestry with Bernie in the top left