Trade and Draft Rating

[threesixpio]

Sorry if there is already a thread for this.

Was interested in how people think we went.

I tend to base my opinion on needs and what’s available - I have no idea how players will turn out long term.

Firstly, I was a bit disappointed we didn’t bag a FA but hopefully this door is not shut for the future.

Secondly, by contrast it looks like Hawthorn’s main strategy was to refresh the list in a big way ie get a number of players rather than focus on the one big name. It’s feels like a generational shift now - no Birch, Rough and Schoenmakers.

Trades tend to be need based and drafts are more “best available”.

It’s an absolute bonus we had a decent F/S possibility which makes our draft all the more exiting. I like that we went for skill and endurance for our first two and a small/medium forward - these is my long term worry - lack of run

The other long term worries I have is who will replace Frawley and do we have X factor small forwards in the waiting

So the test for me will be

- will our tall forwards click and will Patton stay on the ground
- will Smith, Hendo and Scully play for long enough for the younger replacements on our list to be ready


But getting a couple of young classy mids, a Roughy replacement in Patton and a decent CHB is between a B+ and A- for me

 

[KermitJagger]

Despite how horrifically premature this is, I'll have my go.

Ins:
Sam Frost (traded from Melbourne), Jonathon Patton (traded from GWS Giants), Will Day (national draft, first round), Finn Maginness (national draft, father/son selection), Josh Morris (national draft, fourth round), Emerson Jeka (rookie draft, first round), Michael Hartley (preseason draft)

Outs:
Jarryd Roughead (retirement), Grant Birchall (unrestricted free agent signed with Brisbane Lions), Marc Pittonet (traded to Carlton), Kaiden Brand (delisted), Teia Miles (delisted), David Mirra (delisted), Darren Minchinton (delisted), Tim Mohr (rookie) (retired), Ryan Schoenmakers (retired)

I think we did well. We managed to improve our age demographic in key areas and we've brought in Best 22 talent who hopefully can play all season to replace injury prone incumbents. We've dropped our age demographic from the oldest in the league to the third oldest in the league.

We've brought in promising young prospects that could be seen as more 'sure things' than previous years in Day and Maginness. Both of those guys and our later picks have really desired qualities as players too:

Day - Quick, great skills, great endurance, versatile, strong hands
Maginness - Quick, great endurance, versatile, defensively accountable, strong hands
Morris - Quick, strong hands
Jeka - Quick, agile for a tall, strong hands

When you look across all those players they're all quick (all 4 broke 3 seconds for the 20s sprint IIRC) and they're all touted to have strong hands in the marking contest.

 

[flinchfree]

Because Coniglio WAS in play but didn't come over, I give us an overall B+. What people always forget after we miss on a pretty new plaything is that we are nearly always in the mix of 2 or 3 clubs if we have serious interest in that player. That speaks to everything we are at Hawthorn and how we operate. It's just not going to happen that we get em all, but if we were not really even considered we'd know the Club had issues.
Had Cogs never been a chance, but we'd brought in Patton, Frost and 2 top 25 junior players I'd have said an overall A for both periods.

 

[threesixpio]

Because Coniglio WAS in play but didn't come over, I give us an overall B+. What people always forget after we miss on a pretty new plaything is that we are nearly always in the mix of 2 or 3 clubs if we have serious interest in that player. That speaks to everything we are at Hawthorn and how we operate. It's just not going to happen that we get em all, but if we were not really even considered we'd know the Club had issues.
Had Cogs never been a chance, but we'd brought in Patton, Frost and 2 top 25 junior players I'd have said an overall A for both periods.

Yeah no Cogs is definitely a factor in a rating.

 

[KermitJagger]

Because Coniglio WAS in play but didn't come over, I give us an overall B+. What people always forget after we miss on a pretty new plaything is that we are nearly always in the mix of 2 or 3 clubs if we have serious interest in that player. That speaks to everything we are at Hawthorn and how we operate. It's just not going to happen that we get em all, but if we were not really even considered we'd know the Club had issues.
Had Cogs never been a chance, but we'd brought in Patton, Frost and 2 top 25 junior players I'd have said an overall A for both periods.

I'm not sure I agree, mainly because I think it factors in to what happened with Coniglio.

If we'd been in play but he scorned us for another club, sure. That's a mark against us. That's not the case though. We were in play and he decided to stay at his current club and get named captain no less.

Giants scrap co-captain model, announce first standalone skipper

Stephen Coniglio is just the fourth Giants player to take on the captaincy after Phil Davis, Callan Ward and Luke Power

www.afl.com.au

 

[flinchfree]

I'm not sure I agree, mainly because I think it factors in to what happened with Coniglio.

If we'd been in play but he scorned us for another club, sure. That's a mark against us. That's not the case though. We were in play and he decided to stay at his current club and get named captain no less.

Giants scrap co-captain model, announce first standalone skipper

Stephen Coniglio is just the fourth Giants player to take on the captaincy after Phil Davis, Callan Ward and Luke Power

www.afl.com.au

Well, I agree with you!
That's why I was going for only the slightest of downgrades overall.
Had Cogs come over, we're an A+
Had Cogs never been in play, an A. Patton is excellent talent in an important part of the ground, Frost could be handy.
Missing out when Cogs was seriously considering us, even for all the reasoning that is reasoned - B+ final score from the Chinese judge.
Lucky because the Canadian judge who's never watched a game of footy gave us a C thinking there was a slight over rotation on entry.

 

[4THAWN]

Ins:
Sam Frost (traded from Melbourne), Jonathon Patton (traded from GWS Giants), Will Day (national draft, first round), Finn Maginness (national draft, father/son selection), Josh Morris (national draft, fourth round), Emerson Jeka (rookie draft, first round), Michael Hartley (preseason draft)

Outs:
Jarryd Roughead (retirement), Grant Birchall (unrestricted free agent signed with Brisbane Lions), Marc Pittonet (traded to Carlton), Kaiden Brand (delisted), Teia Miles (delisted), David Mirra (delisted), Darren Minchinton (delisted), Tim Mohr (rookie) (retired), Ryan Schoenmakers (retired)

Brand>>Frost
Minch>>Day
Roughy>>Patton
Miles>>Maginness
Birch>>Morris
Mohr>>Hartley
Schoey>>Jeka

When you look at it like that, this period has been exceptional in terms of refreshing the playing list, especially the rejuvenation of the Key Position stocks.

Instead of having a C-grade at best Brand on the list, now we have Frost.

Instead of having a 33 year old Roughy on the list, we've got Patton.

So on and so forth, I think this was a very good result for the long term health of the club.

As always, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and this is very evident.

Not only were we able to refresh the playing list, address weaknesses(both short term and long term) and bring in players like Frost/Hartley on the cheap, but we also managed to improve next year's draft position at the same time.


Picks traded in on the left. Out on the right.

Going past the 2nd rounders (don't know their true value yet) we've essentially just brought in 2 late picks for next year, to be used on taking gems or matching bids. Very nice period as a whole. Taking the cogs miss into account, I'd say 7/10.

 

[tommyk72]

Ins:
Sam Frost (traded from Melbourne), Jonathon Patton (traded from GWS Giants), Will Day (national draft, first round), Finn Maginness (national draft, father/son selection), Josh Morris (national draft, fourth round), Emerson Jeka (rookie draft, first round), Michael Hartley (preseason draft)

Outs:
Jarryd Roughead (retirement), Grant Birchall (unrestricted free agent signed with Brisbane Lions), Marc Pittonet (traded to Carlton), Kaiden Brand (delisted), Teia Miles (delisted), David Mirra (delisted), Darren Minchinton (delisted), Tim Mohr (rookie) (retired), Ryan Schoenmakers (retired)

Brand<<Frost
Minch==Day
Roughy<<Patton
Miles==Maginness
Birch==Morris
Mohr<<Hartley
Schoey==Jeka

Good summary. Just made a small edit, as you confused me early on And this is a comparison of what we expect the 2020 output to be for the players on the right compared to the 2019 output of the players on the left. When you start thinking longer term, I think we've done a really good job of refreshing.

 

[Dewnior]

While we didn't technically acquire a FA, we did recruit Hartley who was equivalent to a FA but did not qualify as a FA for life as we acquired him via the PSD.

 

[threesixpio]

While we didn't technically acquire a FA, we did recruit Hartley who was equivalent to a FA but did not qualify as a FA for life as we acquired him via the PSD.

 

[kirbatron]

B or 7.5/10 for me.

Not terrible not great.

 

[Nugett]

I’m giving us a C+ Not getting Cogs was disappointing. In saying that, his decision was never in the clubs control. The same with most FA’s trading in Patton and Frost filled needs. The more important one for me is Patton. There is how ever a risk with his past history of knees. think that if his knees hold up for the next 3 possibly four years he will be the steal. Rate Patton a lot higher than what I have rated Tom Lynch. Lynch was/is never a million dollar a year player, only more consistent due to less injury. While Frost fills a need, I’m not certain that he will be a role player, or he becomes more consistent player under our system. I do have high hopes for scrimshaw who appears like the best trade for us last year. Hartley looks the goods from Essendon, and could end up being a good player for us.

Day and Finn are promising. I just hope that in Finn’s case, he’s able to be viewed on these boards as a player, rather than that of a F/S. Jecca and Morris being later picks, will probably need more time for development. Day and Finn, will also probably need more time in the 2’s as well initially, but have a touch more upside than the other 2.

where I mark us down, is that I was hoping to have traded next years first rounder for another pick in this year‘s top 20. If we had landed Day at 11 (13) and then got Kemp at 15(17) I would have seen this more as a win.

 

[Brishawk]

We improved our list considerably and improved our hand at the draft next year. The only blemish is we missed on cogs but that was always a tough ask in the face of the cap-less giants.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

B-

No Coniglio is a heart breaker and has almost certainly consigned us to be also-rans this upcoming season.

Patton for cheap is great on paper. If he can remain fit and get on the park consistently then we have made a terrific trade. I feel the risk was worth it for the price given, so even if he doesn't get on the park I would still think it was worth a shot.

I'm not convinced by Frost as he's never impressed me when I've watched him play. But he does have raw attributes that could be used to good effect in a better system, which we have. So for the price I think it was a good trade.

Drafting is all TBA, but on face value getting two top 15 rated prospects for one first and two fourth rounders is great.

I would have much rather we capitalise on this draft though given the next one is going to be heavily compromised. That 2020 first was begging to be traded, and I get the feeling the club thought they would have been able to work a deal, but in the end they couldn't. On top of that we have Downie coming through so we should be looking to get out of the first round, or getting an early pick.

IMO we really should have made the most of this draft in order to bring in the young talent we desperately need.

 

[tige19]

Get Cogs It’s a A+, we didn’t get him so for me it’s a B-

With that said you can’t really judge, it’s a pretty silly discussion. If we play finals and are competing with the best then it’s a clear win, results dictate everything.

 

[Gralin]

I give this thread an F for going way too early

 

[derp de derp]

The promising thing to me is we appear to be recruiting players that fit the next evolution of the Hawks game plan.


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[Brishawk]

I give this thread an F for going way too early

With a certain axeman not getting to training there isn’t a hell of a lot else to talk about

 

[Davo-27]

picking up Frost = Good
picking up Patton = potentially good, small chance it could be bad
picking up Hartley = i feel like we picked up a different version of K.Brand, instead of Finlay/Hilder, also will likely delay Koschitzke's rise to prominence
drafting Day = good decision, Kemp was the other option, we could have also gone Sharp?
drafting Maginness = good, especially the late bid, i think Maginness might be first choice backup ahead of Cousins/Howe by seasons end
drafting Morris = not the best choice, but i hope he proves me wrong
rookie drafting Jeka = not the best choice, but i hope he proves me wrong
rookie cat b Pepper = good, i like him a lot, i saw most of Gipps games and he is a good talent, also performed well for Vic Country

4 good, 1 maybe and 3 below average decisions, pre-mature score, i obviously hope im wrong and they all become stars 4.5/8

 

[Mitchell54]

We turned pick 13, 30, our Future 2nd & Pittonet into Frost, Patton, Day, Maginness, Morris, Hartley, North's Future 2nd, Brisbane's Future 3rd(from Collingwood) & WB Future 4th.

That's a big win any day of the week.

I'd give us a 8/10. We identified needs. Got them for a good deal and improved our position next year. I have North finishing 17th in my ladder predictions so hopefully that's true.

 

[Gralin]

With a certain axeman not getting to training there isn’t a hell of a lot else to talk about

There is plenty of things we could talk about or even not talk about.

 

[ralphwiggum]

While we didn't technically acquire a FA, we did recruit Hartley who was equivalent to a FA but did not qualify as a FA for life as we acquired him via the PSD because essendon are dicks.

FIFY

 

[eldorado]

[QUOTE="Mitchell54, post: 63827960, member: 148393"@], Brisbane's Future 3rd(from Collingwood)

.[/QUOTE]
Can anyone confirm the origin of this 3rd round pick, I have read it is actually Essendon's?


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[Pessimistic]

Coniglio is now on a seven year deal. If we missed out on him, we also missed that. Its not that negative

 

[Mitchell54]

[QUOTE="Mitchell54, post: 63827960, member: 148393"@], Brisbane's Future 3rd(from Collingwood)

.

[/QUOTE]
Can anyone confirm the origin of this 3rd round pick, I have read it is actually Essendon's?


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[/QUOTE]
No idea. I just heard it was Brisbane's. Gotta love the professionalism from the AFL on this stuff.