List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

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Chrispiesssss

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 31, 2014
7,805
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AFL Club
Collingwood
I can quote Pendles and Sidey and Adams stats from 2019 too if you’d like. They mean Jack all though, because it’s not 2019 anymore.
My point being is that they produced that as 20/21 year olds. They haven’t been given the opportunity since then to show class their potential.

A bit silly to compare them to 30 year old players.
 

Apex36

Hall of Famer
Mar 26, 2014
31,897
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AFL Club
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My point being is that they produced that as 20/21 year olds. They haven’t been given the opportunity since then to show class their potential.

A bit silly to compare them to 30 year old players.
It’s a bit silly to look at old stats and assume they’re good players too.
Especially when you have an actual suns supporter in the thread calling them plodders. Go and actually watch players before deciding you want them instead of getting excited by numbers.
 

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Billys Back

Club Legend
Feb 5, 2020
1,277
1,645
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What if we trade our next years first?

I’ve been thinking about a way we can best utilise our future picks while still acquiring Daicos & other players.

IMO, we will finish higher next year than we will this year.

Out: 2022 1st pick

In: GCS 2nd round pick & a combination of Will Brodie, Brayden Fironi, Sam
Flanders, Jeremy Sharp (2 or 3).

Basically anyone 24 or under who can’t get a game in that young developing team.

Example:

We lose pick 7

We get pick 28 & 3 best 22 players.

We’ll already have a very young list with all the draftees from the previous 2 years, Daicos & Dib this year.

Fiorini & Brodie slot into our midfield and make us better in the short / medium term with the hope they turn into B+ level player or are overtaken by draftees.

GCS obviously hoping we finish bottom 3.
Am I reading this correctly????
Fiorini and Brodie???

Oh dear.
 

loki04

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 29, 2005
25,606
20,459
Adelaide
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Collingwood
View attachment 1117686

Just whipped this up as an example how relatively simple gathering some more points may be. That’s even before we consider trading in any future picks.

Essentially it is us trading our earliest pick (37) pick for 3 later picks with Brisbane.

There are also other options with Richmond and Gold Coast in particular.
Another 700 points to go and we'd have draft like 9 players at the end of the draft, as you forgot about this;

Under normal AFL rules, clubs who are matching bids for northern Academy, Next Generation Academy and father-son players are only allowed to use draft points from the amount of picks that is equal to the number of their available list spots.

This has been to stop clubs from stockpiling late draft picks with the intention of only using them to pay for highly rated draftees, even if they had more picks at the draft than they had list spots available, which was an early loophole of the live bidding system.
 

loki04

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 29, 2005
25,606
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Adelaide
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loki04

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 29, 2005
25,606
20,459
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Where not necessarily slow compared to some teams, but the tiges remain the benchmark - my view is that it's become a pressure game - and if you want to apply pressure and create turnovers like the tigers do - you've got to be able to run and close space down as quickly as the tigers do.
I think we are one of the slowest teams in the comp bar maybe Carlton and Hawks.
 

Rusty Beam

Club Legend
Sep 30, 2009
2,380
2,608
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Another 700 points to go and we'd have draft like 9 players at the end of the draft, as you forgot about this;

Under normal AFL rules, clubs who are matching bids for northern Academy, Next Generation Academy and father-son players are only allowed to use draft points from the amount of picks that is equal to the number of their available list spots.

This has been to stop clubs from stockpiling late draft picks with the intention of only using them to pay for highly rated draftees, even if they had more picks at the draft than they had list spots available, which was an early loophole of the live bidding system.
Yeah I forgot they changed that rule and posted about it later.

 

Rusty Beam

Club Legend
Sep 30, 2009
2,380
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Am I reading this correctly????
Fiorini and Brodie???

Oh dear.
Both would walk into our team at the moment unfortunately.

Even some of the blokes we delisted last year would at the moment. I’d much rather Scharenberg in the back half at the moment than other options we’ve got...
 

Billys Back

Club Legend
Feb 5, 2020
1,277
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AFL Club
Collingwood
Both would walk into our team at the moment unfortunately.

Even some of the blokes we delisted last year would at the moment. I’d much rather Scharenberg in the back half at the moment than other options we’ve got...
We are re-building. We don’t want a short term, bandaid solution which may make us a little more competitive for a year or so.

It’s the Carlton way when they took all those GWS players like Janksh, Kennedy etc. cost them high draft picks for what?? Set them back years doing that and many of them are either no longer there or can’t get a game just like they couldn’t in the club they came from.

When they finally realised they needed to stick to the draft and then recruit quality free agents, it’s made them look a lot better.

That’s what we need to do.
 

unplugged

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 8, 2008
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At a guess I'd say they've extended Greene's contract in order to reduce his current short term wage from 2022-2024, thus allowing them to increase their offer to the likes of Josh Kelly.
 

Johno9911

All Australian
Jun 20, 2017
860
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On the back of the Petracca re-signing at Melbourne, I'd be watching and waiting them and Carlton. Someone has to fall out of the bed there, the Dee's have Weid this year, then Jackson, Pickett, Brayshaw in 2022 and Oliver the year after.

Carlton have McKay and Cripps OOC this year and Walsh next year, to go with bringing in Saad, McGovern and Z Williams in the last few years on solid money. Apparently they have also approached Adam Cerra from Freo at about $3m across 4/5 years
 

Apex36

Hall of Famer
Mar 26, 2014
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Both would walk into our team at the moment unfortunately.
Even if that’s the case, it’s not good reason to give up a significant asset for them. Half the reason we’re in the situation we’ve found ourselves in now is because we’ve been unwilling to walk away from deals where clubs are demanding trades that are unreasonable. Treloar, Beams, Murray, Aish. All trades where we gave up significantly more than we should have needed to, because the list management team held the philosophy that we owed it to the incoming player to get a deal done, and clubs took advantage of that. Hopefully the acquisition of Wright changes that, because frankly, he’s been involved in some of the best value trade deals of the past 20 years because he puts the clubs interests ahead of the incoming players.
 

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Rusty Beam

Club Legend
Sep 30, 2009
2,380
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Even if that’s the case, it’s not good reason to give up a significant asset for them. Half the reason we’re in the situation we’ve found ourselves in now is because we’ve been unwilling to walk away from deals where clubs are demanding trades that are unreasonable. Treloar, Beams, Murray, Aish. All trades where we gave up significantly more than we should have needed to, because the list management team held the philosophy that we owed it to the incoming player to get a deal done, and clubs took advantage of that. Hopefully the acquisition of Wright changes that, because frankly, he’s been involved in some of the best value trade deals of the past 20 years because he puts the clubs interests ahead of the incoming players.
Yeah sorry I didn’t actually read the proposed trade properly. Now I have I wouldn’t do that.

I like both Brodie and Fiorini as untapped talents, but I wouldn’t be giving up much. Definitely not our first, even if it meant getting back a second.
 

Maison

Rookie
Oct 14, 2020
25
38
AFL Club
Collingwood
On the back of the Petracca re-signing at Melbourne, I'd be watching and waiting them and Carlton. Someone has to fall out of the bed there, the Dee's have Weid this year, then Jackson, Pickett, Brayshaw in 2022 and Oliver the year after.

Carlton have McKay and Cripps OOC this year and Walsh next year, to go with bringing in Saad, McGovern and Z Williams in the last few years on solid money. Apparently they have also approached Adam Cerra from Freo at about $3m across 4/5 years
At the very least we should make a play whether it be genuine or not and make them pay more than they would like. Other clubs offers have contributed to our current position so it's only fitting we do the same.
 

Quicky

Brownlow Medallist
May 27, 2008
22,343
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We are re-building. We don’t want a short term, bandaid solution which may make us a little more competitive for a year or so.

It’s the Carlton way when they took all those GWS players like Janksh, Kennedy etc. cost them high draft picks for what?? Set them back years doing that and many of them are either no longer there or can’t get a game just like they couldn’t in the club they came from.

When they finally realised they needed to stick to the draft and then recruit quality free agents, it’s made them look a lot better.

That’s what we need to do.
I think you're right as it relates to giving up a first rounder for some fringe players from a bottom 8 side.

I wouldn't rule out pursuing some fringe players where the price and fit is right though.

I'd prioritise holding our firsts and second round draft picks.

Obtaining extra points so we don't cheapen those picks when we pick up Daicos.

Targeting FA's to fill the gaps that the loss of Treloar created, and future planning for life post Pendles.

But I think there is definitely a place for some fringe types but we need to be considerate about what we pay.

Whether Fiorini or Brodie are the right targets is debatable, but there are other players sitting outside best 22s that would find playing opportunities attractive.

Carefully targeting those and finding the next Crisp, Howe or Roughead will be important.
 

Ugene41

Team Captain
Sep 21, 2004
409
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If we're going to go after fringe players, it should be KPP. Would love to see whether we can somehow walk Weideman into the PSD with a high enough offer. Ideally North Melbourne have another target they can walk into the PSD. Any interstate clubs that might finish lower than us wouldn't take the risk of moving a player interstate if they had no intention of going there.

I think midfielder wise, we have enough young talent coming through in Josh Daicos, N Daicos, Macrae, Reef, Poulter, Rantall. Getting these fringe players would just limit their development and opportunity further. We're already seeing Rantall/Macrae stuck on a half forward rather than having opportunities in the centre.
 

Thedivided

Team Captain
Oct 15, 2018
471
900
AFL Club
Collingwood
I think Weidmann on maybe 450-500k per year over 4 years is reasonable get him to nominate for the pre season draft. North owe us one lol. We've gotta stop with the niceties offer Melbourne a future second or third, even throw in sidebottom for perhaps a second rounder from them.
 

stormskye

Premiership Player
Sep 24, 2019
4,375
6,136
AFL Club
Collingwood
Next years first needs to be untouchable. I will be a top 6 pick.

Of fringe players available I think we should be 100% be into Weid, and looking at players like cameron and brander for eagles, lipinski, fiorini, brodie etc which all fit potential needs.

obviously being fringe means not selling the farm but offering opportunities. All walk ups into our team atm.
 

Ugene41

Team Captain
Sep 21, 2004
409
786
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
Next years first needs to be untouchable. I will be a top 6 pick.

Of fringe players available I think we should be 100% be into Weid, and looking at players like cameron and brander for eagles, lipinski, fiorini, brodie etc which all fit potential needs.

obviously being fringe means not selling the farm but offering opportunities. All walk ups into our team atm.
Yep if they're fringe, it's a 4th round pick like what we got for Tom Phillips or what Gold Coast got for Peter Wright.
 

Apex36

Hall of Famer
Mar 26, 2014
31,897
60,009
AFL Club
Collingwood
Yep if they're fringe, it's a 4th round pick like what we got for Tom Phillips or what Gold Coast got for Peter Wright.
Those players were both salary dumps, so unless the teams we deal with are in cap strife, don’t expect to get those kinds of deals.
 

Quicky

Brownlow Medallist
May 27, 2008
22,343
23,155
Wherever I May Roam
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Collingwood
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Socceroos, Melbourne Victory
Be interesting to watch if the reduced TPP starts to bite a bit harder across the league this year, and at which clubs.
Tom Browne (I know) reported there are 5 clubs in trouble this year. That may be another avenue to rebuilding our list. Feast off similarly desperate clubs as they get in trouble and as our salary cap opens up. I doubt anyone has ballsed it up quite as bad as we did though.
 

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