List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

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Everybody Panic

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Lipinski has scored 2 goals this season (1 more than Sier) and averages 1 more score involvement than Sier this year in a much higher scoring team.

Again I'm don't know enough about Lipinski to judge. But you're basically buying him on potential rather than proven experience/output. And it's a position (midfield/wing) where we're not exactly lacking in terms of potential (Daicos x2, Macrae, Bianco, Reef, Poulter who will need opportunities going forward).

He's been in the system just as long as Sier for 5 years now in a side that has made a similar number of finals appearances in that time and failed to establish himself as a best 22. If we have ambitions to be a contender again I don't see how getting players that are not good enough for other contenders will help us get there. And if we're buying on potential, I'd rather players who have had less years in the system like a Dylan Stephens who might have higher upside. Prefer to walk him into the PSD over Lipinski.
See I have watched Lipinski a fair bit, and he's quality, and I think you're nit-picking stats. Lipinski is not only playing more often for his team across the last 4 years, but being played out of position and still getting better disposals than Sier. Now I don't even think Sier is a bad player, I would have had him in out guts for most of this year if it was me. Lipinski also has very good skills, and kicking efficiency levels that we could only dream about with most of our players. He's also only 23ish, so plenty of football left.
 

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Ugene41

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See I have watched Lipinski a fair bit, and he's quality, and I think you're nit-picking stats. Lipinski is not only playing more often for his team across the last 4 years, but being played out of position and still getting better disposals than Sier. Now I don't even think Sier is a bad player, I would have had him in out guts for most of this year if it was me. Lipinski also has very good skills, and kicking efficiency levels that we could only dream about with most of our players. He's also only 23ish, so plenty of football left.
That's good to know. As I said, I don't really recall watching any of Lipinski in Bulldogs games so I'm happy to defer to the opinion of someone who's seen a lot of him and to our recruiters if they do end up identifying him as the right target.

I was more making the point that posters shouldn't get too excited jumping on every potential fringe player that might be available. Most of the time they're fringe for a good reason so the likelihood of them becoming best 22 at the Pies is only higher if it's a position that we are lacking in terms of senior players and young developing kids. For me that's clearly in the KPP department rather than midfield/wing where we have an abundance of kids that need their opportunity in the guts vs being stuck on the HFF.
 

sr36

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People need to get the notion that we’ll be after Naish again just because we did last year out of their heads. 12 months ago we had Ned Guy as the list manager, heavily influenced by Hine. Now we have Wright in control, who by the sound of it has a fundamentally different approach to list management, and is very experienced in identifying opposition players who can actually add value.

Now we might end up picking him up, who knows? But I wouldn’t be surprised either if he wasn’t on our radar at all anymore with new blood in charge.
Not just new blood in charge, also new blood already on the list could easily change things.
 

McOrist

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If we could emerge from the trade and draft period with a haul like this, then I'd be pretty happy:

  • Pick up Blake Schlensog from South Fremantle as a delisted free agent before the National Draft. He's only 20 and had a strong year as a key position forward and back in the senior WAFL. Previously on Geelong's list, so now should know what's required to make it at AFL level.
  • Grab Luke Dunstan from St K as an unrestricted free agent. He's only 26, so we could offer a 3 year deal on average money. He had a good year at St K in 2021, before surprisingly being dropped for the last couple of rounds. We all know his disposal isn't great, but his strength is at clearances and we certainly need support there, until McCrea and McInness get stronger.
  • In the National Draft, we grab Daicos, Dib and maybe another if we have the picks available.
  • Pre-season draft with our pick #2 -we try to shake loose one of Jarrod Brander, Patrick Lipinski, Dylan Stephens, Nathan Kreuger. I'm not a big wrap for Jake Riccardi.

All of this should keep intact all of our 2022 draft picks. Whatever we do, we should aim not to touch next years draft picks -unless we can improve them. Hopefully trading out Sier, Cox, Thomas and maybe Lynch will raise enough draft points to cover Daicos and Dib. If both Cox and Lynch leave, we'll need to pick up another ruck as support and for the VFL squad.
 

Apex36

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Regarding any players coming in this year the Pies will be restricted simply because they have few picks to trade with. So a player like Naish who costs nothing would come up in discussions as would free agents. This year more so than usual. Matt Crouch, Chol, Hewett.

Any updates on Ruscoe? Ive been away, he is out of contract I believe.

What would be fair?
Well aware of our constraints, but that doesn’t mean we have to restrict ourselves to grabbing underwhelming, soft players. We have enough of those already.

Lots of players are ooc, I imagine there will be significant progress in that now we have a coach. Given Ruscoes significant development in defence this year I’d imagine we wouldn’t want to let him go cheaply, but he’s given no indication of wanting to leave so I’d imagine it’s a moot discussion.
 

manicpie

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If we could emerge from the trade and draft period with a haul like this, then I'd be pretty happy:

  • Pick up Blake Schlensog from South Fremantle as a delisted free agent before the National Draft. He's only 20 and had a strong year as a key position forward and back in the senior WAFL. Previously on Geelong's list, so now should know what's required to make it at AFL level.
  • Grab Luke Dunstan from St K as an unrestricted free agent. He's only 26, so we could offer a 3 year deal on average money. He had a good year at St K in 2021, before surprisingly being dropped for the last couple of rounds. We all know his disposal isn't great, but his strength is at clearances and we certainly need support there, until McCrea and McInness get stronger.
  • In the National Draft, we grab Daicos, Dib and maybe another if we have the picks available.
  • Pre-season draft with our pick #2 -we try to shake loose one of Jarrod Brander, Patrick Lipinski, Dylan Stephens, Nathan Kreuger. I'm not a big wrap for Jake Riccardi.

All of this should keep intact all of our 2022 draft picks. Whatever we do, we should aim not to touch next years draft picks -unless we can improve them. Hopefully trading out Sier, Cox, Thomas and maybe Lynch will raise enough draft points to cover Daicos and Dib. If both Cox and Lynch leave, we'll need to pick up another ruck as support and for the VFL squad.
I like all those except dunstan, we don't need a slow mid with sh*t disposal
 

Scodog10

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Well aware of our constraints, but that doesn’t mean we have to restrict ourselves to grabbing underwhelming, soft players. We have enough of those already.

Lots of players are ooc, I imagine there will be significant progress in that now we have a coach. Given Ruscoes significant development in defence this year I’d imagine we wouldn’t want to let him go cheaply, but he’s given no indication of wanting to leave so I’d imagine it’s a moot discussion.
What a perfect discussion for the people suggesting we bring Naish on board because of the obvious player comparison. He’s Ruscoe as a forward!
 

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partypie

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See I have watched Lipinski a fair bit, and he's quality, and I think you're nit-picking stats. Lipinski is not only playing more often for his team across the last 4 years, but being played out of position and still getting better disposals than Sier. Now I don't even think Sier is a bad player, I would have had him in out guts for most of this year if it was me. Lipinski also has very good skills, and kicking efficiency levels that we could only dream about with most of our players. He's also only 23ish, so plenty of football left.
Sier on the inside feeding Lipinski on the outside who then delivers well-weighted kicks inside F50 to our forwards' advantage consistently is a potential wet-dream material for mine.

Will be interesting to see if Sier was one of those who spoke in the meeting(s) with McRae and gave an undertaking to bust his arse over the next few months leading into the break.
 

Quicky

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We know what we get from WHE I prefer him on a flank pushing up the ground.

Sidey is getting on and can play mostly anywhere.

Daicos in my opinion is a true HFF elite kicking skills and great around goals just doesn't get enough of the footy when playing full time mid, I think he should be taking the Josh Thomas role.

See what happens I guess.
I'm not necessarily wedded to the idea of WHE on a wing but he had a much better year this year from the wing compared to the forward flank. He's definitely a decent AFL standard winger.

True re: Sidebottom but reckon he works best in space when he can pick when to drift into a contest or keep his width.

Daicos went on ball this year and played worse. I like him best on a wing but half forward works too.

I'm not suggesting we can't improve on the wings but we aren't weak there either. Given that, is it in our interest to concentrate effort and resources for a marginal improvement in an area that's not a big issue?

That's why i'm each way on it.
 

partypie

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Wasn't Garner supposed to be 'the next big thing' at one stage ..??
He has bags of talent and ability (the sort that can swing games in your team's favour), but his body really stifled his development early on and he hasn't had much luck with injury since.

2014: Hamstring Tendon in pre-season

2015: Fractured Thumb

2016: Hamstring, Knee Cyst

2017: Interrupted pre-season but played 18 games

2018: Groin injury in pre-season, hamstring "tightness"

2019: Brain fade at a nightclub

2020: Hamstring
 

ClaytonM

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I would honestly prefer that mature player to be Thomas over Naish. He's hardly a mature experienced head either. He has 9 games of experience and was drafted in the same year as Murphy who's now played more games than him. Do we think of Murphy as a mature player?

Also you name Jesse White as not useful but what if Naish is another Tony Armstrong (which he mostly likely projects to be)? That's not very useful either. Weideman should be the value of what Peter Wright went for last year (future 4th) or walk him to the PSD. If he's expensive then pass on him and pick up DFA Daniel Talia if we want that mature body. 1 year older than Madgen and a much better experienced head in the backline in a position we clearly lack depth.
I was using Naish as an example. Surely there is a number of options out there that are an upgrade on Thomas that we can get for nix. Look at Keays at Adelaide for an example. Former pick 24 in draft delisted by Brisbane.

Weids should be the same value as Wright but doubt he will be. I see no point in picking up a second rate KPF. Would rather wait a year or two when we have picks and cap to go after quality.
 

Quicky

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Lipinski>Sidebottom>WHE. His 2021 was better than those two and he’s still got development in him that those two don’t.

On Krueger he’s only moving for opportunity so is he a lock for our back 7 with everyone fit? I’m a hundred times yes because it frees up Moore and guarantees the demise of Madgen (if he survives the off-season cull), but do others think it’s getting too tall with three 200cm KPD’s + Howe and Maynard potentially up the field?
The thing I like about Lipinski is he is good in transition, has size and pace and fits our age profile perfectly. I think he has the potential to be a higher possession winner than Daicos and WHE. He's a guy with flaws so it'd be interesting what a coach like McRae could do with him.
 

Mukesh

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He has bags of talent and ability (the sort that can swing games in your team's favour), but his body really stifled his development early on and he hasn't had much luck with injury since.

2014: Hamstring Tendon in pre-season

2015: Fractured Thumb

2016: Hamstring, Knee Cyst

2017: Interrupted pre-season but played 18 games

2018: Groin injury in pre-season, hamstring "tightness"

2019: Brain fade at a nightclub

2020: Hamstring
Cursed by a gypsy at an early age by the look of it....
 

ClaytonM

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Naish is still on topic, yeah? He’s not a mature body.



I’m sold then because Motlop and his groin aside your Geelong word is as good as it gets on here. With Greenwood going out as well at the very least he’ll be good on the training track.
My comment is more a generic comment about fringe players from other clubs. The assumption that all fringe players are destined to be spuds is wrong. Many will be, but some have turned out to be real finds.

I would rather us try a fringe player from another club than stick with Thomas. Cost the same and may just get more upside. Can’t lose. Thomas is either at or near the end one way or another.
 
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BEEG

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The thing I like about Lipinski is he is good in transition, has size and pace and fits our age profile perfectly. I think he has the potential to be a higher possession winner than Daicos and WHE. He's a guy with flaws so it'd be interesting what a coach like McRae could do with him.
Dogs players have said he is up with Bont being the best kick inside 50.

If I wasn't sold I am now.
 
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