List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

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ClaytonM said:
I was using Naish as an example. Surely there is a number of options out there that are an upgrade on Thomas that we can get for nix. Look at Keays at Adelaide for an example. Former pick 24 in draft delisted by Brisbane.

Weids should be the same value as Wright but doubt he will be. I see no point in picking up a second rate KPF. Would rather wait a year or two when we have picks and cap to go after quality.
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If we switched those positions around I think we would be in complete agreeance. I don't think there's much point replacing Thomas with a recycled second rate HFF. Much better giving those opportunities on the HFF to Henry, Ginnivan, McCreery, Bianco, N Daicos/Dib next year. Even shuffle some midfielders/HFF around and it will give more opportunities to Macrae/Reef/Poulter etc. All of them I'd be more excited about than trying to find the next recycled Keays. Prefer to save the picks and cap on that front and go for quality in a year or two for a star mid or KPP.

I would happily replace Cox/Madgen with a second rate KPP though. We only really have Kelly/Keane/McMahon on the list to give those opportunities to. If we can find a Peter Wright/Josh Bruce type it would be a better improvement than trying to find a similar replacement for Josh Thomas.
 
Robroy22 said:
Was involved quite a bit with Josh in his Geelong days and apart from his on-field qualities (he's an old fashioned hard nut mid that's been forced to play forward because of the mids he's been behind at both Geelong and Rich), he's a really quick thinking and rational person to have in a team. He's selfless and supportive of team mates and would, to my mind, help protect our young mids for a season or two till they grow into their permanent roles. If he's cheap, snap him up.
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What are your thoughts on the Krueger rumours? Would he be a good pickup?
 

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Ugene41 said:
I would honestly prefer that mature player to be Thomas over Naish. He's hardly a mature experienced head either. He has 9 games of experience and was drafted in the same year as Murphy who's now played more games than him. Do we think of Murphy as a mature player?

Also you name Jesse White as not useful but what if Naish is another Tony Armstrong (which he mostly likely projects to be)? That's not very useful either. Weideman should be the value of what Peter Wright went for last year (future 4th) or walk him to the PSD. If he's expensive then pass on him and pick up DFA Daniel Talia if we want that mature body. 1 year older than Madgen and a much better experienced head in the backline in a position we clearly lack depth.
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I reckon Talia will be chased hard by some clubs. Essendon and St Kilda for example.
 
Quicky said:
What are your thoughts on the Krueger rumours? Would he be a good pickup?
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He definitely has talent and athleticism. My take is that Geelong (Scarlo & Andrew Mackie mainly) want to keep Kreuger for KPP defensive depth but the kid himself wants to play. He's loyal, but Covid has already stolen pretty much 2 years of his development and he might be open to a move. He could play FB/CHB (just as Blake Schlensog could also) straight away if need be. He's a good colt.
 
Robroy22 said:
He definitely has talent and athleticism. My take is that Geelong (Scarlo & Andrew Mackie mainly) want to keep Kreuger for KPP defensive depth but the kid himself wants to play. He's loyal, but Covid has already stolen pretty much 2 years of his development and he might be open to a move. He could play FB/CHB (just as Blake Schlensog could also) straight away if need be. He's a good colt.
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After Henderson’s performance on the weekend if I was Geelong I’d be doing anything to ensure he’s not playing next year
 
Robroy22 said:
He definitely has talent and athleticism. My take is that Geelong (Scarlo & Andrew Mackie mainly) want to keep Kreuger for KPP defensive depth but the kid himself wants to play. He's loyal, but Covid has already stolen pretty much 2 years of his development and he might be open to a move. He could play FB/CHB (just as Blake Schlensog could also) straight away if need be. He's a good colt.
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Krueger looks to have all the skills and athletic ability. I didn't realise he was still so young. Do you think he could play key forward also or is that a stretch?
 

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Ugene41 said:
Just because they're young doesn't mean they're going to be any more successful. For every Jack Crisp, you have way more Tony Armstrongs, Patrick Karnezis, Henry Schade, Michael Manteits who we all recycled from other clubs whilst they were young. I'd argue our track record trading in more established experienced fringe players like Dunn, Roughead, Varcoe, Greenwood, Howe has been way more successful.

I have no problems targeting a recycled player but only if it's really targeted identification. I don't want us taking 3-4 punts on recycled players that have been in the system 3-4 years and failed to become best 22 and you're just hoping they can turn it around. It's not like they bring anymore experience in than a new draftee given they havent played much and could be just as overawed. Plus you'll be wasting >2x the salary cap space of a draftee on these types of players

Would rather take those punts late in the draft where you might still unearth a McCreery/Ginnivan who can surprise to the upside from their first year. That scattergun recycling approach is what Carlton has done for years with GWS rejects and see where that's taken them...
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When you've got as many holes as we do, then a shotgun approach might as well be a targeted approach! If you can offload a Thomas for a Lipinski on the same cash, then you've made an incremental improvement, and we need those. (I know nothing about Lipinski, just an example.)

Just like a top 4 contender can offer finals footy as a lure for top end free agents, a bottom 4 rebuilder like us can offer Gametime to overlooked talents from those top 4 teams.

Of course neither scenario guarantees value for money player output, but you still explore the options presented by your circumstance.
 
lenny&carl said:
When you've got as many holes as we do, then a shotgun approach might as well be a targeted approach! If you can offload a Thomas for a Lipinski on the same cash, then you've made an incremental improvement, and we need those. (I know nothing about Lipinski, just an example.)

Just like a top 4 contender can offer finals footy as a lure for top end free agents, a bottom 4 rebuilder like us can offer Gametime to overlooked talents from those top 4 teams.

Of course neither scenario guarantees value for money player output, but you still explore the options presented by your circumstance.
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How many holes do you think we have?

I reckon our back 6 or 7 is pretty settled with a young full back and possibly a small lockdown defender required for the future.

Rucks look sorted with Grundy and then Cameron as ruck/forward. Mids probably need another contested beast to help Adams and DeGoey but if we want to develop McInnes, Macrae, Poulter and a pair of Daicos’s we need time into them now. A Lipinski would help.

It’s the forwards where we are short I reckon and it’s the number 1 key forward spot to go with Cameron and allow Checkers to be that third tall. Support them with Elliott and Henry and then possibly McCreery and Ginnivan types or a Stengle and I think we look better with a better game plan also.

We have some gaps and our depth is tested by injury to key players but I don’t think it’s as bad as some make out.

Snag Schlensog, Stengle, Lipinski and then the missing piece is still a key forward that I can’t be certain on the solution.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
jackcass said:
I think we need to see what our current crop (Bianco, Poulter, Macrae, McInnes, Daicos x2) offer before adding others to the mix. Lipinski has had 5 years in the system but hasn't done anything to suggest he's ahead of these guys as yet.
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Oh Jackass you're conservatism reeks again.
 
well left said:
How many holes do you think we have?

I reckon our back 6 or 7 is pretty settled with a young full back and possibly a small lockdown defender required for the future.

Rucks look sorted with Grundy and then Cameron as ruck/forward. Mids probably need another contested beast to help Adams and DeGoey but if we want to develop McInnes, Macrae, Poulter and a pair of Daicos’s we need time into them now. A Lipinski would help.

It’s the forwards where we are short I reckon and it’s the number 1 key forward spot to go with Cameron and allow Checkers to be that third tall. Support them with Elliott and Henry and then possibly McCreery and Ginnivan types or a Stengle and I think we look better with a better game plan also.

We have some gaps and our depth is tested by injury to key players but I don’t think it’s as bad as some make out.

Snag Schlensog, Stengle, Lipinski and then the missing piece is still a key forward that I can’t be certain on the solution.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
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This year for key forward I think we look at who we can bring across out of Krueger, Schlensog or Riccardi.

Next year I think we need to go to the draft and use our 1st round pick. Waiting for a big trade feels like a fools game for us. I'd love a King or McDonald but what are the odds.
 
Quicky said:
This year for key forward I think we look at who we can bring across out of Krueger, Schlensog or Riccardi.

Next year I think we need to go to the draft and use our 1st round pick. Waiting for a big trade feels like a fools game for us. I'd love a King or McDonald but what are the odds.
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Yep agreed. Holding out and doing nothing now in the hope of landing King or McDonald in 12 months time doesn’t seem the best option to me.

Krueger was the one I missed on. Him and Schlensog as two young talls that could go back or forward seems a good option given what we have to work with.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Ugene41 said:
That's good to know. As I said, I don't really recall watching any of Lipinski in Bulldogs games so I'm happy to defer to the opinion of someone who's seen a lot of him and to our recruiters if they do end up identifying him as the right target.

I was more making the point that posters shouldn't get too excited jumping on every potential fringe player that might be available. Most of the time they're fringe for a good reason so the likelihood of them becoming best 22 at the Pies is only higher if it's a position that we are lacking in terms of senior players and young developing kids. For me that's clearly in the KPP department rather than midfield/wing where we have an abundance of kids that need their opportunity in the guts vs being stuck on the HFF.
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Agree. My experience is that seconds players (other than young blokes or those retuning from injury) are seconds players.
 
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