List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[magpies42]

The only real hand we hold this trade period is the second pick in the preseason draft. We could pick up somebody useful that way.

Otherwise I agree with some other posters, it’s better to wait out 12 months and go for some proper talent.

 

[unplugged]

How many holes do you think we have?

I reckon our back 6 or 7 is pretty settled with a young full back and possibly a small lockdown defender required for the future.

Rucks look sorted with Grundy and then Cameron as ruck/forward. Mids probably need another contested beast to help Adams and DeGoey but if we want to develop McInnes, Macrae, Poulter and a pair of Daicos’s we need time into them now. A Lipinski would help.

It’s the forwards where we are short I reckon and it’s the number 1 key forward spot to go with Cameron and allow Checkers to be that third tall. Support them with Elliott and Henry and then possibly McCreery and Ginnivan types or a Stengle and I think we look better with a better game plan also.

We have some gaps and our depth is tested by injury to key players but I don’t think it’s as bad as some make out.

Snag Schlensog, Stengle, Lipinski and then the missing piece is still a key forward that I can’t be certain on the solution.


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The problem with out list at the moment is that players we happily had as VFL depth quickly snuck up on us and somehow became regular starting 22 players.

Players that are capable enough (ish) on their best days, but players we should be looking to get back to the VFL ASAP.

I'm talking Noble, Cameron and Madgen in particular.

You even see it with teams like Richmond... they dominate the competition with the likes of an Aarts playing well in the VFL. Next minute they lose a player or two (Ellis, etc.) and Aarts comes into the AFL side more often than not. Fans will think that's Aarts earning his spot and "developing" - and he will have some good games - but that's why it's hard for a good side to stay up the top.

Unfortunately it has happened to us with a few players despite being down the bottom of the ladder.

As for list deficiencies we obviously immediately need someone to take Roughead's position, maybe someone experienced that has another 2-3 years minimum, probably doesn't matter as long as we get some depth in.

We're at a real risk of Kelly not coming on and McMahon is anyone's guess. Another big gap.

Stengle is the best starting point for me. You can dslist or lose Thomas to Free Agency and probably save $100k for a better player.

You could also trade Sidebottom for who-knows-what and replace him with Billings as a RFA.

Kreuger is seemingly the best option of the KPF's because I'd imagine he'd play some games whereas Kelly, Begg and McMahon are all still maybes.

I really wanted us to get Rory Laird last year but clearly the cap made that impossible. Parker would be amazing too if we had the cap space. Unfortunately there probably aren't too many inside mids on the market that we could afford. I'd just about give my left but to get someone like Hopper from GWS.

 

[lenny&carl]

How many holes do you think we have?

I reckon our back 6 or 7 is pretty settled with a young full back and possibly a small lockdown defender required for the future.

Rucks look sorted with Grundy and then Cameron as ruck/forward. Mids probably need another contested beast to help Adams and DeGoey but if we want to develop McInnes, Macrae, Poulter and a pair of Daicos’s we need time into them now. A Lipinski would help.

It’s the forwards where we are short I reckon and it’s the number 1 key forward spot to go with Cameron and allow Checkers to be that third tall. Support them with Elliott and Henry and then possibly McCreery and Ginnivan types or a Stengle and I think we look better with a better game plan also.

We have some gaps and our depth is tested by injury to key players but I don’t think it’s as bad as some make out.

Snag Schlensog, Stengle, Lipinski and then the missing piece is still a key forward that I can’t be certain on the solution.


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Holes imo ...KPF, kpb, inside mid, 21-25yos, size, pace, talent, i-50 delivery, Noble.

 

[jackcass]

Oh Jackass you're conservatism reeks again.

Not sure whether giving what you’ve already got a crack is conservatism, but if that’s what you want to call it I’m in. Much better than the money ball s**t that got us to where we were at the end of 2020.

 

[jackcass]

I reckon after the finals is a good time.
Get all the crap out of the way in here and focus on the good stuff in the new one.
Thoughts?

LOL, you’re so funny…. “The good stuff”

 

[well left]

Holes imo ...KPF, kpb, inside mid, 21-25yos, size, pace, talent, i-50 delivery, Noble.

Pace is something we sorely need. I assume Stengle brings pace along with talent and inside 50 delivery. I’m really keen for us to be proactive in that DFA space with Stengle and Schlensog.


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[Scodog10]

My comment is more a generic comment about fringe players from other clubs. The assumption that all fringe players are destined to be spuds is wrong. Many will be, but some have turned out to be real finds.

if would rather us try a fringe player from another club than stick with Thomas. Cost the same and may just get more upside. Can’t lose. Thomas is either at or near the end one way or another.

On a case by case basis I agree so my take is JT>Naish and Stephens/ Lipinski>JT.

The problem with out list at the moment is that players we happily had as VFL depth quickly snuck up on us and somehow became regular starting 22 players.

Players that are capable enough (ish) on their best days, but players we should be looking to get back to the VFL ASAP.

I'm talking Noble, Cameron and Madgen in particular.

You even see it with teams like Richmond... they dominate the competition with the likes of an Aarts playing well in the VFL. Next minute they lose a player or two (Ellis, etc.) and Aarts comes into the AFL side more often than not. Fans will think that's Aarts earning his spot and "developing" - and he will have some good games - but that's why it's hard for a good side to stay up the top.

Unfortunately it has happened to us with a few players despite being down the bottom of the ladder.

As for list deficiencies we obviously immediately need someone to take Roughead's position, maybe someone experienced that has another 2-3 years minimum, probably doesn't matter as long as we get some depth in.

We're at a real risk of Kelly not coming on and McMahon is anyone's guess. Another big gap.

Stengle is the best starting point for me. You can dslist or lose Thomas to Free Agency and probably save $100k for a better player.

You could also trade Sidebottom for who-knows-what and replace him with Billings as a RFA.

Kreuger is seemingly the best option of the KPF's because I'd imagine he'd play some games whereas Kelly, Begg and McMahon are all still maybes.

I really wanted us to get Rory Laird last year but clearly the cap made that impossible. Parker would be amazing too if we had the cap space. Unfortunately there probably aren't too many inside mids on the market that we could afford. I'd just about give my left but to get someone like Hopper from GWS.

That is the perfect analysis of why we fell off a cliff you just missed Brown x2! Next cabs off the rank are Murphy, Kelly and probably Wilson who are likely to get a lot of senior minutes in 2022, but ultimately aren’t up to it.

It’s challenging on here because a lot of the die hard fans look to the moment with a guy like Cameron saying his contested marking was elite (which it was) so he’s a player of the future, but completely ignore how he fits into a cohesive forward group and what that looks like in 3 years time. It happened with Cox and the problem with both of them is that unless they mark it they’re out of the contest. If you want to maximise Cameron’s ability, like Lynch, he needs to be a first ruck that can float forward which isn’t happening whilst Grundy remains on the list…

 

[Magnanimous]

The problem with out list at the moment is that players we happily had as VFL depth quickly snuck up on us and somehow became regular starting 22 players.

Players that are capable enough (ish) on their best days, but players we should be looking to get back to the VFL ASAP.

I'm talking Noble, Cameron and Madgen in particular.

You even see it with teams like Richmond... they dominate the competition with the likes of an Aarts playing well in the VFL. Next minute they lose a player or two (Ellis, etc.) and Aarts comes into the AFL side more often than not. Fans will think that's Aarts earning his spot and "developing" - and he will have some good games - but that's why it's hard for a good side to stay up the top.

Unfortunately it has happened to us with a few players despite being down the bottom of the ladder.

As for list deficiencies we obviously immediately need someone to take Roughead's position, maybe someone experienced that has another 2-3 years minimum, probably doesn't matter as long as we get some depth in.

We're at a real risk of Kelly not coming on and McMahon is anyone's guess. Another big gap.

Stengle is the best starting point for me. You can dslist or lose Thomas to Free Agency and probably save $100k for a better player.

You could also trade Sidebottom for who-knows-what and replace him with Billings as a RFA.

Kreuger is seemingly the best option of the KPF's because I'd imagine he'd play some games whereas Kelly, Begg and McMahon are all still maybes.

I really wanted us to get Rory Laird last year but clearly the cap made that impossible. Parker would be amazing too if we had the cap space. Unfortunately there probably aren't too many inside mids on the market that we could afford. I'd just about give my left but to get someone like Hopper from GWS.

But still have to pay out Sidebums contract which is supposedly backended…


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[Billys Back]

I thought the idea is that VFL ‘depth’ was supposed to develop into senior AFL players.
I doubt we recruit players on the senior list to just be solid VFL contributors and only come in during emergencies.

 

[whiskeytown]

Agree. My experience is that seconds players (other than young blokes or those retuning from injury) are seconds players.

Dunn and Roughead were reserves players. Mihocek a VFL player.

Given how young and speculative our KPP socks are... I think there is some value out there.

And as for Lipinski not being regular best 22. Johansen isn’t at the moment at the Dogs either. But he’d walk straight into our line up

 

[Trickster]

Dunn and Roughead were reserves players. Mihocek a VFL player.

Given how young and speculative our KPP socks are... I think there is some value out there.

And as for Lipinski not being regular best 22. Johansen isn’t at the moment at the Dogs either. But he’d walk straight into our line up

Agree, we don't have many options at the moment so I think we need to look at all options incl VFL / SANFL etc. Wouldn't mind a Nick Hind for nothing.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

I reckon Talia will be chased hard by some clubs. Essendon and St Kilda for example.

Apparently Richmond right into him

 

[well left]

It’s challenging on here because a lot of the die hard fans look to the moment with a guy like Cameron saying his contested marking was elite (which it was) so he’s a player of the future, but completely ignore how he fits into a cohesive forward group and what that looks like in 3 years time. It happened with Cox and the problem with both of them is that unless they mark it they’re out of the contest. If you want to maximise Cameron’s ability, like Lynch, he needs to be a first ruck that can float forward which isn’t happening whilst Grundy remains on the list…

Yeah I agree. I had Cameron as a best 22 as the second ruck.

I’d like to see what he could do with another key forward and a game plan that promotes quicker ball movement.

All that said, it won’t improve his ground ball ability. He’s one that might attract the interest of someone like the doggies to go with English and I’d entertain the thought if we had someone coming in that could ruck and was better when the ball hit the deck.

At this stage he does look like one of our better forwards though so the thought of trading him also seems harsh.


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[Scodog10]

Dunn and Roughead were reserves players. Mihocek a VFL player.

Given how young and speculative our KPP socks are... I think there is some value out there.

And as for Lipinski not being regular best 22. Johansen isn’t at the moment at the Dogs either. But he’d walk straight into our line up

I doubt it. Our back 7 is rock solid so no chance he gets a gig there and he’s a poor forward so I’m sticking with Ginnivan/ Johnson/ McReery/ Henry. Also does anyone else find it amusing that people quote the three speculative talls that have worked to support chasing that type as opposed to the vast majority that don’t? Over the past decade we’ve had Richmond, McNamara, Tohill, McCarthy, White, Frost, Keeffe, Wyatt, Marsh, Hartley and Gault come and go yet it’s the hits that get mentioned…

 

[TakingThePies]

Agree. My experience is that seconds players (other than young blokes or those retuning from injury) are seconds players.

Horrible outlook.

 

[thommo_legend]

Apparently Lipinski will request a trade to either us or Carlton, has no interest in re signing with the dogs

 

[MooreTreloar]

Apparently Lipinski will request a trade to either us or Carlton, has no interest in re signing with the dogs

That's great if true. Surely that puts us in the box seat given Carlton will be focusing on Cerra.

Hopefully we get him.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

That's great if true. Surely that puts us in the box seat given Carlton will be focusing on Cerra.

Hopefully we get him.

As long as we don't overpay.

 

[Masked Magician]

Apparently Lipinski will request a trade to either us or Carlton, has no interest in re signing with the dogs

I don't rate him personally

 

[Crazy Tails]

Apparently Lipinski will request a trade to either us or Carlton, has no interest in re signing with the dogs

Interesting; hopefully we can drive a hard bargain and walk him to the PSD if we have to.

What would get a trade done? I would think they might have an interest in a Lynch or Cox type. Not sure they need another mid like Sier.

 

[TakingThePies]

I don't rate him personally

He's 190cm goal kicking midfielder.. Theres a reason the dogs don't want him to go and a reason they offered him 3 years. This kid makes our midfield that much better. We don't have much of that type.

Will be a future pick.

 

[Crazy Tails]

He's 190cm goal kicking midfielder.. Theres a reason the dogs don't want him to go and a reason they offered him 3 years. This kid makes our midfield that much better. We don't have much of that type.

Will be a future pick.

Yeah if a player isn't involved I would offer a future 2nd at most. If they want more the PSD is the back up. We would just need to make sure that North have their eye on someone else.

 

[TradeDraft]

 

[TradeDraft]

Interesting; hopefully we can drive a hard bargain and walk him to the PSD if we have to.

What would get a trade done? I would think they might have an interest in a Lynch or Cox type. Not sure they need another mid like Sier.

I trade Cox for him

 

[unplugged]

Carlton are now at that stage where they're being linked to completely everyone. In the last couple of years it has been North and St Kilda as the two clubs that the media pinpointed as having the most cash to splash.

It's interesting to see our name actually linked with Lipinski. Almost like a "he's possibly heading to the Pies but the Pies will have to outbid not only the Bulldogs but also Carlton" type manoeuvre by Lipinski's manager.