List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[loki04]

And geel in 3 years:

B:
Hb:
M:
Hf:
F:
R:

Some are actually advocating following their footsteps on here to avoid bottoming out and going the draft route...can you believe it.

 

[doppleganger]

You are if you think an advantage like that wouldn’t help a club like us rise quicker in 2 years time. Given your mind immediately went to tanking I think it might be a bit high level for you.

Of course if you give clubs the ability to spend $2m more on players they will have a greater likelihood of improved performance.

The question is where you set the triggers, and why you would want to?

You say like us...what is the lack of performance trigger? Is it wins ie 6 or less? Is % a factor, ie a % above 85% warrant the trigger.

North might have a case as they have gone 4 win, 3 win both with % near 70....they actually haven't been competitive.

Ie a trigger for additional $2m is two consecutive seasons where you win 4 or less games.

I have no idea who those clubs are nor why they’re relevant to Collingwood in 2022 and our circumstances? I don’t even think % is a good indicator of where a team is at it was you that brought it in to the discussion and used it incorrectly. Perhaps you could address why you think we’ll rise taking into consideration the factors I presented?

% is used as an additional indicator of competitiveness, than just your straight W/L.

A team can win 3-4 games but actually be competitive, compared to another who gets a couple of upsets but generally is belted every week.

It depends on what you mean by rise? Ie ladder position....pretty rare that a team who goes 6W and %of 85 finishes 2nd last.

Next year we could have a poorer season in terms of W/L and % but still may rise on the ladder and finish 16th.

I also think it pretty easy to mount a case that our current top liners could all be better in 2022

DeGoey...no lawsuit hanging over him
Moore...barely played
Adams/Elliott/Howe...missed plenty of games
Grundy/Sidey/Maynard, well below best

 

[loki04]

Who has? St Kilda went for high profile signings like Crouch, Hill, Jones and Ryder. They spend big on signings.

Most posts I've seen have sooked at the idea were not doing the same by going after the highest profile players. Lipinski, Weid, Ricciardi etc is nothing like St Kilda did.

Not about the high profile my point was trying to trade in a bunch of players to try rebound up next season before getting enough talent to make it viable long term strategy.

 

[loki04]

Of course if you give clubs the ability to spend $2m more on players they will have a greater likelihood of improved performance.

The question is where you set the triggers, and why you would want to?

You say like us...what is the lack of performance trigger? Is it wins ie 6 or less? Is % a factor, ie a % above 85% warrant the trigger.

North might have a case as they have gone 4 win, 3 win both with % near 70....they actually haven't been competitive.

Ie a trigger for additional $2m is two consecutive seasons where you win 4 or less games.


% is used as an additional indicator of competitiveness, than just your straight W/L.

A team can win 3-4 games but actually be competitive, compared to another who gets a couple of upsets but generally is belted every week.

It depends on what you mean by rise? Ie ladder position....pretty rare that a team who goes 6W and %of 85 finishes 2nd last.

Next year we could have a poorer season in terms of W/L and % but still may rise on the ladder and finish 16th.

I also think it pretty easy to mount a case that our current top liners could all be better in 2022

DeGoey...no lawsuit hanging over him
Moore...barely played
Adams/Elliott/Howe...missed plenty of games
Grundy/Sidey/Maynard, well below best

You can be competitive by flooding your back half every game its not an indicator of future performance if your only objective is to make the opposition score less without the ability for you to return fire.

 

[JoinDate]

A 'walk him to the PSD' already?

I knew one was coming, like every other year, but I didn't expect one this early!

 

[loki04]

Based on past form we'll agree to Stephens and pick 32 in exchange our future first and pick 39.

Dekka will then pop up in the post-trade period media release on the CFC website saying this deal is a positive outcome as it will give us more points to help match a bid on Nick Daicos, who we are very comfortable giving up a first round pick for given how highly rated he is.

Haha spot on and the sheep will fall for it.

 

[loki04]

A 'walk him to the PSD' already?

I knew one was coming, like every other year, but I didn't expect one this early!

Other teams have done it to us in the past Nick Stevens.
its an avenue to take so why not use it? if the other team won't play ball. Stop being a push over at the trade table teams happily and gleefully gave it to us last trade period with no lube...good will gets you nothing when it boils down to it.

Dogs and Norf made us the laughing stock of the country and Sydney previously have also had their way with us. All it gets you is them snickering about us after its done.

 

[sr36]

Funnily enough those Facebook posts are essentially just BigFooty posts. If someone posted on here saying "Stephens requested a trade to Collingwood" most people wouldn't believe it unless it was a credible poster with a history of sources (of which there are practically none).

Youre missing the point - facebook posts come with a headline and a picture. They're definitely more legit.

 

[Anzacday]

Youre missing the point - facebook posts come with a headline and a picture. They're definitely more legit.

I've got a picture for you...

 

[sr36]

I've got a picture for you...
View attachment 1221547

Joking, not fishing.

 

[whiskeytown]

Are there any straight-kicking forwards on the market? I had a quick look at the accuracy for each club's top 3 goalkickers for 2021, and it doesn't look great for us.

View attachment 1221470


Overall we weren't the most inaccurate team, but it would be nice for the guys taking the most shots to do a bit better than the above.

FWIW our three were Mihocek (34.34), Elliot (25.8, so definitely not part of the problem) and DeGoey (23.23).

Good data. Mihocek has had a poor kicking year. Normally converts much better

 

[partypie]

No that's completely wrong. Cam McCarthy was contracted for one more year. That's why he had that year off until his deal with GWS ran out.

Edit: Looks like other posters have already covered this.

Yep I stand corrected on this one. My apologies for getting it wrong.

 

[Trickster]

Other teams have done it to us in the past Nick Stevens.
its an avenue to take so why not use it? if the other team won't play ball. Stop being a push over at the trade table teams happily and gleefully gave it to us last trade period with no lube...good will gets you nothing when it boils down to it.

Dogs and Norf made us the laughing stock of the country and Sydney previously have also had their way with us. All it gets you is them snickering about us after its done.

Carlton also got Jack Martin that way when Suns didn't accept a 2nd and 3rd rounder iirc

 

[sr36]

Good data. Mihocek has had a poor kicking year. Normally converts much better

Mihocek needs a bit of remedial work with old and new footage with his longer shots. The arc he runs to get extra distance changed this year and became ridiculously sharp, particularly just before contact, with him pivoting massively. Perhaps he was carrying something or just fell into a bad habit? His kicking from 40+ was a strength, but this year it was awful

 

[TakingThePies]

Mihocek needs a bit of remedial work with old and new footage with his longer shots. The arc he runs to get extra distance changed this year and became ridiculously sharp, particularly just before contact, with him pivoting massively. Perhaps he was carrying something or just fell into a bad habit? His kicking from 40+ was a strength, but this year it was awful

He carried a quad injury throughout the year. Wasn't 100% from about Round 4-5

 

[Ugene41]

Other teams have done it to us in the past Nick Stevens.
its an avenue to take so why not use it? if the other team won't play ball. Stop being a push over at the trade table teams happily and gleefully gave it to us last trade period with no lube...good will gets you nothing when it boils down to it.

Dogs and Norf made us the laughing stock of the country and Sydney previously have also had their way with us. All it gets you is them snickering about us after its done.

Yep these days it's less about goodwill between list managers and more about goodwill with player agents. They hold all the power. If you can get a deal agreed to with the player and they nominate you as the club they want to be traded to, it doesn't matter whether you offer a lot less than what another club is willing to offer trade wise.

We should 100% be leveraging the threat of our high PSD position in every trade negotiation.

 

[nahnah]

Other teams have done it to us in the past Nick Stevens.
its an avenue to take so why not use it? if the other team won't play ball. Stop being a push over at the trade table teams happily and gleefully gave it to us last trade period with no lube...good will gets you nothing when it boils down to it.

Dogs and Norf made us the laughing stock of the country and Sydney previously have also had their way with us. All it gets you is them snickering about us after its done.

Completely agree. Why are we not allowed to bend over a team when we so regularly get bent over. If Stephens wants to come to us tell them its a future third or we will roll the preseason draft dice and if North pick him up so be it

 

[Jafo]

Of course if you give clubs the ability to spend $2m more on players they will have a greater likelihood of improved performance.

The question is where you set the triggers, and why you would want to?

You say like us...what is the lack of performance trigger? Is it wins ie 6 or less? Is % a factor, ie a % above 85% warrant the trigger.

North might have a case as they have gone 4 win, 3 win both with % near 70....they actually haven't been competitive.

Ie a trigger for additional $2m is two consecutive seasons where you win 4 or less games.


% is used as an additional indicator of competitiveness, than just your straight W/L.

A team can win 3-4 games but actually be competitive, compared to another who gets a couple of upsets but generally is belted every week.

It depends on what you mean by rise? Ie ladder position....pretty rare that a team who goes 6W and %of 85 finishes 2nd last.

Next year we could have a poorer season in terms of W/L and % but still may rise on the ladder and finish 16th.

I also think it pretty easy to mount a case that our current top liners could all be better in 2022

DeGoey...no lawsuit hanging over him
Moore...barely played
Adams/Elliott/Howe...missed plenty of games
Grundy/Sidey/Maynard, well below best

Follow your last part all but Sidey coming back from the form slip he’s sliding backwards into at a rate of knots. His body no longer does what his mind wants it to do. Like it or not.

 

[jackcass]

Good data. Mihocek has had a poor kicking year. Normally converts much better

As does Goo.

 

[jackcass]

Other teams have done it to us in the past Nick Stevens.
its an avenue to take so why not use it? if the other team won't play ball. Stop being a push over at the trade table teams happily and gleefully gave it to us last trade period with no lube...good will gets you nothing when it boils down to it.

Dogs and Norf made us the laughing stock of the country and Sydney previously have also had their way with us. All it gets you is them snickering about us after its done.

I don't think he was questioning the legitimacy of the PSD, just noting that it's very early for a suggestion that we do that to emerge.

 

[Rusty Beam]

Bulging (burst) salary cap + Realisation in 2020 that the current side can't win a flag = Purge

My guess is the current top 8 bar maybe Essendon have no room at all in their salary caps. I suspect that Richmond, St Kilda and West Coast are in the position we were in last year, in that their lists aren't up to it and they can no longer expect players to take cuts on the promise of future success.

Jack Riewoldt made the comment on AFL360 that pretty much all clubs are at bursting point Salary Cap wise.

It was in the context of a serious conversation and I don’t think it was a throw away line. As a one of the most senior players in his club and within the game, I’d reckon he probably has his finger on the pulse.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Jack Riewoldt made the comment on AFL360 that pretty much all clubs are at bursting point Salary Cap wise.

It was in the context of a serious conversation and I don’t think it was a throw away line. As a one of the most senior players in his club and within the game, I’d reckon he probably has his finger on the pulse.

I'd imagine that would be SOP at any time for all clubs - it's their duty to have the absolute best list that the cap will allow them at all times.

 

[Big Bryza]

Mason Cox for Lipinski, maybe? Or at least some of the currency required.

Dogs could use a ruck, and Bruce will miss most of next year.

Obviously they have JUH, but there's nothing to say he'll be ready next year either

I like the look of Lipiniski.

We need to pick off 3-4 players from clubs in that age bracket and playing ability.

Guys who have potential but cant quite crack their clubs best 22.

Lipiniski and Weid would be 2 to start with.

 

[JoinDate]

Other teams have done it to us in the past Nick Stevens.
its an avenue to take so why not use it? if the other team won't play ball. Stop being a push over at the trade table teams happily and gleefully gave it to us last trade period with no lube...good will gets you nothing when it boils down to it.

Dogs and Norf made us the laughing stock of the country and Sydney previously have also had their way with us. All it gets you is them snickering about us after its done.

I'm not suggesting not utilising every avenue necessary.

It was just a harmless poke at seeing the same thing written every year, just that it came earlier than expected.

 

[loki04]

I don't think he was questioning the legitimacy of the PSD, just noting that it's very early for a suggestion that we do that to emerge.

Well its not like we as in BF crew have any sway on proceedings anyway so might as well discuss the possibilities.