Strategy Trade and List management (Add your rumour to the simmering stew that is the post season. Edition.)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 13, 2017
Posts
1,701
Likes
3,382
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I think we’ll have a year similar to Hawthorn last year, get our injured players back and finish 12th or so.

I’d by going hard at the Crows Tom Lynch along with these moves.

Lose:
Picken (ret)
Morris (ret)
Campbell (del)
Roberts (trade/del)
Suckling (NFL)
R.Smith (del)

Gain:
Lynch
West
Kamis
Top 10 draft pick

And then the rest on the draft, hopefully some mature talent that can make an immediate impact.

Naughton - Adams - Wood
Williams - Cordy - Crozier/Biggs
Hunter - Macrae - Johannisen
Daniel - Lynch - Dale
Dickson/Lip - Boyd - Dunkley
English - Liber - Bontempelli

McLean, Dahlhaus, Wallis, Richards

With the depth of Jong, Trengrove, Roughead, Redpath etc and the new kids

Desperately need a small forward who is creative. In a perfect worth it would be Rankine but who knows what happens between now and then.

I don’t think we’re anywhere near as bad as some are acting. It’s just been the perfect storm this year. Hopefully we can use it to fast track the kids like the Hawks. Pump games into Naughton, English, Lipinski, Richards... it’ll be alright.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

TedDougChris

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Posts
19,170
Likes
21,619
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Charlton Athletic, Roys FFC
I’m suggesting we keep both though. Let’s hope that Trengove locks down a key defensive post, then we would only have one backup ruck in Roughead. People keep suggesting we have too tall a list and I agree with that, but it’s not because our ruck or KPF stocks are overloaded but rather our defensive end, especially considering we have often selected a smaller more mobile defense in the past. A couple of key defenders need to be traded/delisted and Moz probably retires. I’d also consider moving Adams or Young in the forward line.

FWIW I thought the Trengove acquisition was the wrong move at the time and still do but in the clubs defense I’m not sure we were counting on Schache and Naughton falling into our laps. I’d like to give Collins one more season and instead look to move on Roberts and Moz retires.

So in terms of talls I would.

English - keep (future star)
Boyd - keep (hopefully can string together a good season)
Redpath - keep (in contract and a big reason why our forward line has looked better in our 2 good games we played)
Roughead - keep (depth)
Campbell - keep (depth)
Roberts - trade/delist
Moz - retire
Young - keep (him or Adams move forward)
Adams - keep (see above)
Naughton - future star keep
Cordy - keep
Collins - retain for one more year
Trengove - keep
NHM - delist
Understand your point, just personally see far more value in say - retaining Morris than BTC.
 

Dogsman16

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Posts
8,150
Likes
7,449
Location
Minas Morgul
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Understand your point, just personally see far more value in say - retaining Morris than BTC.
Moz is 36 next year coming off two injury prone seasons and now we know has ACL issues. In a position we now have huge depth. I’d love Moz to stick around as much as anyone but even I can see that the end is near for Moz.

In any case I’d rather Webb/Honey be delisted before Campbell or Moz retires.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Posts
547
Likes
441
Location
North Bondi
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I think we’ll have a year similar to Hawthorn last year, get our injured players back and finish 12th or so.

I’d by going hard at the Crows Tom Lynch along with these moves.

Lose:
Picken (ret)
Morris (ret)
Campbell (del)
Roberts (trade/del)
Suckling (NFL)
R.Smith (del)

Gain:
Lynch
West
Kamis
Top 10 draft pick

And then the rest on the draft, hopefully some mature talent that can make an immediate impact.

Naughton - Adams - Wood
Williams - Cordy - Crozier/Biggs
Hunter - Macrae - Johannisen
Daniel - Lynch - Dale
Dickson/Lip - Boyd - Dunkley
English - Liber - Bontempelli

McLean, Dahlhaus, Wallis, Richards

With the depth of Jong, Trengrove, Roughead, Redpath etc and the new kids

Desperately need a small forward who is creative. In a perfect worth it would be Rankine but who knows what happens between now and then.

I don’t think we’re anywhere near as bad as some are acting. It’s just been the perfect storm this year. Hopefully we can use it to fast track the kids like the Hawks. Pump games into Naughton, English, Lipinski, Richards... it’ll be alright.
Brad Lynch and NMM might also struggle to stay on list also. Always hope they work out but expect we will have 1-2 trades or free agents plus 4 draft.

A question for those who know the draft better than me - if someone selects West and forces us to use our first pick (let’s just say in the 5-10) range then our next pick would be the earlier of a third round or if someone selects Khamis we would then be able to select him effectively in what is expected to be the second round range - and we would be required to use the points related to the position we would then need to move forward to select him. A result of this is that we would use up more points.

Is this correct?

Do we get more points if we delist more people?
 

Pugz89

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jun 29, 2015
Posts
8,471
Likes
8,538
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Brad Lynch and NMM might also struggle to stay on list also. Always hope they work out but expect we will have 1-2 trades or free agents plus 4 draft.

A question for those who know the draft better than me - if someone selects West and forces us to use our first pick (let’s just say in the 5-10) range then our next pick would be the earlier of a third round or if someone selects Khamis we would then be able to select him effectively in what is expected to be the second round range - and we would be required to use the points related to the position we would then need to move forward to select him. A result of this is that we would use up more points.

Is this correct?

Do we get more points if we delist more people?
Picks only down to 73 have points attached, so depending on where said picks are positioned to offset the delistings if that makes sense.
 

TedDougChris

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Posts
19,170
Likes
21,619
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Charlton Athletic, Roys FFC
Moz is 36 next year coming off two injury prone seasons and now we know has ACL issues. In a position we now have huge depth. I’d love Moz to stick around as much as anyone but even I can see that the end is near for Moz.

In any case I’d rather Webb/Honey be delisted before Campbell or Moz retires.
I know and I have huge doubts on Morris' ability to recover from injury this time.

But I'd bet we get more value from 6 to 8 games from Dale than we would from a guy who can only do 'I am tall' - and that's it... BTC has the best part of a decade to build a tank and has failed miserably...

I think we agree in part on the way we need to go forward, we are just arguing over details. Who and when...

I think Webb is gone too...

Good discussion, have enjoyed it !!
 

ScragCity

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
Posts
7,801
Likes
13,860
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I think we’ll have a year similar to Hawthorn last year, get our injured players back and finish 12th or so.

I’d by going hard at the Crows Tom Lynch along with these moves.

Lose:
Picken (ret)
Morris (ret)
Campbell (del)
Roberts (trade/del)
Suckling (NFL)
R.Smith (del)

Gain:
Lynch
West
Kamis
Top 10 draft pick

And then the rest on the draft, hopefully some mature talent that can make an immediate impact.

Naughton - Adams - Wood
Williams - Cordy - Crozier/Biggs
Hunter - Macrae - Johannisen
Daniel - Lynch - Dale
Dickson/Lip - Boyd - Dunkley
English - Liber - Bontempelli

McLean, Dahlhaus, Wallis, Richards

With the depth of Jong, Trengrove, Roughead, Redpath etc and the new kids

Desperately need a small forward who is creative. In a perfect worth it would be Rankine but who knows what happens between now and then.

I don’t think we’re anywhere near as bad as some are acting. It’s just been the perfect storm this year. Hopefully we can use it to fast track the kids like the Hawks. Pump games into Naughton, English, Lipinski, Richards... it’ll be alright.
I think that 22 next year could do serious damage. Back in the top 8 depending on injuries.
 

BRWB

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Posts
14,792
Likes
21,550
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I’m suggesting we keep both though. Let’s hope that Trengove locks down a key defensive post, then we would only have one backup ruck in Roughead. People keep suggesting we have too tall a list and I agree with that, but it’s not because our ruck or KPF stocks are overloaded but rather our defensive end, especially considering we have often selected a smaller more mobile defense in the past. A couple of key defenders need to be traded/delisted and Moz probably retires. I’d also consider moving Adams or Young in the forward line.

FWIW I thought the Trengove acquisition was the wrong move at the time and still do but in the clubs defense I’m not sure we were counting on Schache and Naughton falling into our laps. I’d like to give Collins one more season and instead look to move on Roberts and Moz retires.

So in terms of talls I would.

English - keep (future star)
Boyd - keep (hopefully can string together a good season)
Redpath - keep (in contract and a big reason why our forward line has looked better in our 2 good games we played)
Roughead - keep (depth)
Campbell - keep (depth)
Roberts - trade/delist
Moz - retire
Young - keep (him or Adams move forward)
Adams - keep (see above)
Naughton - future star keep
Cordy - keep
Collins - retain for one more year
Trengove - keep
NHM - delist
In your analysis of Campbell IMO you arent really looking at two key factors.

1 - campbell is actually quite shit. Plus completely lacks the necessary mobility for the modern game and Bev doesnt seem to rate him either.

2 - when we have needed Campbell to step up he is often injured. just lacks durability

I actually think there is no bigger certainty than Campbell being delisted.
 

Dogsman16

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Posts
8,150
Likes
7,449
Location
Minas Morgul
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Time to move Dunkley to mid
Had Dunkley kicked straight this year, I think this line of thinking would be different.

Had he kicked 3 of those shots he should have hit (not to mention the sofa drop) he’d be our leading goal kicker and everyone would be begging to keep him forward.

I don’t really want him delivering into our forward line. His best assets are his contested marking and his defensive pressure. Perfect 3rd tall size but needs to improve his goal kicking!
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Pannalstaroz

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
May 4, 2014
Posts
8,129
Likes
17,240
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
98% of Dunkley’s game is fantastic. He’s brave, he’s extremely good overhead, he tackles well, he’s strong and he’s the ultimate professional. His kicking is poor but, a bit like Clay, he’s always managed to get the ball where he wanted to get it. He’s functional.

I don’t know why people want to get rid of Clay, he’s as hard as a cat’s head, a proven performer under pressure and a premiership hero. He’s also loved by his teammates and club.
 

StringyDog

Party Pieman
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Posts
7,455
Likes
4,841
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Van Canucks, Cin Bengals
98% of Dunkley’s game is fantastic. He’s brave, he’s extremely good overhead, he tackles well, he’s strong and he’s the ultimate professional. His kicking is poor but, a bit like Clay, he’s always managed to get the ball where he wanted to get it. He’s functional.

I don’t know why people want to get rid of Clay, he’s as hard as a cat’s head, a proven performer under pressure and a premiership hero. He’s also loved by his teammates and club.
What position does he play considering he has lost further pace, agility and the ability to tackle, he was great in september 2 years ago but he is cooked
 

BRWB

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Posts
14,792
Likes
21,550
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
98% of Dunkley’s game is fantastic. He’s brave, he’s extremely good overhead, he tackles well, he’s strong and he’s the ultimate professional. His kicking is poor but, a bit like Clay, he’s always managed to get the ball where he wanted to get it. He’s functional.

I don’t know why people want to get rid of Clay, he’s as hard as a cat’s head, a proven performer under pressure and a premiership hero. He’s also loved by his teammates and club.

Clay one of my faves but at what point do we look at moving some of these injury prone players on?

Cant just hope they will miraculously get better can we?

Year after year we are going around with a qtr of our list out injured and topping the injury ladder.

Surely something has to give?
 

TedDougChris

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Posts
19,170
Likes
21,619
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Charlton Athletic, Roys FFC
I don’t know why people want to get rid of Clay, he’s as hard as a cat’s head, a proven performer under pressure and a premiership hero. He’s also loved by his teammates and club.
I dont think that people want to get rid of Clay, but I think most people are very concerned about his ability to get back on the park at anything like his best.

Given half our list (on an annual basis) appears to be made of biscuits, he's a (sadly) obvious target. I'm having similar concerns about Red, despite the obvious difference he made to our structure in Rounds 3 and 4. Two matches and he's out for a few to manage knee issues. Not a good sign.

I think the lack of information from the club contributes to this, as they provide nothing by the way of useful, actual information.....
 

Anja_Nees

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 14, 2001
Posts
4,278
Likes
4,610
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I know and I have huge doubts on Morris' ability to recover from injury this time.

But I'd bet we get more value from 6 to 8 games from Dale than we would from a guy who can only do 'I am tall' - and that's it... BTC has the best part of a decade to build a tank and has failed miserably...

I think we agree in part on the way we need to go forward, we are just arguing over details. Who and when...

I think Webb is gone too...

Good discussion, have enjoyed it !!
Webb and Roberts are contracted next season (Roberts has played about two games since being re-signed). Perhaps we would delist then rookie but doubt we would pay out.

Both look miles off the 22 at present.
 

Anja_Nees

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 14, 2001
Posts
4,278
Likes
4,610
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
We should definitely be targeting mature state league players. It’s an untapped source and a great way of bringing in new untried talent and not having to wait years for them to develop. Guys like Smith and Puopolo slotted straight into Hawthorns team as staples for years.
This I definitely agree with.

Dickson, Biggs, Picken and M Boyd were all drafted from state leagues and played a part in the flag. We had Redpath, Campbell and Crameri in reserve as well.

The record of mature age state league selections versus recycled non-best 22 AFL players is telling. No recycled hacks.
 

TedDougChris

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Posts
19,170
Likes
21,619
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Charlton Athletic, Roys FFC
This I definitely agree with.

Dickson, Biggs, Picken and M Boyd were all drafted from state leagues and played a part in the flag. We had Redpath, Campbell and Crameri in reserve as well.

The record of mature age state league selections versus recycled non-best 22 AFL players is telling. No recycled hacks.
I think there is a sub-conscious bias at play. Player X was a more talented junior, so must still be - despite not making the grade. Player Y who has trained his arse off, overcome deficiencies in their skill set etc - not considered...
 

Anja_Nees

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 14, 2001
Posts
4,278
Likes
4,610
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I think there is a sub-conscious bias at play. Player X was a more talented junior, so must still be - despite not making the grade. Player Y who has trained his arse off, overcome deficiencies in their skill set etc - not considered...
Am told we had a few of our own Chris Mayne type scenarios where the coach was happy to have a player but the details of the deal were left to list management.

Trengove is one of those - happy to have him but not on the terms we got him. Stuck with it now.
 

TedDougChris

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Posts
19,170
Likes
21,619
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Charlton Athletic, Roys FFC
Am told we had a few of our own Chris Mayne type scenarios where the coach was happy to have a player but the details of the deal were left to list management.

Trengove is one of those - happy to have him but not on the terms we got him. Stuck with it now.
Communication - we should try it now and again....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom