Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Posts
33,816
Likes
43,533
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
T'Wolves, Renault F1, Footscray
Moderator #40,277
Hunter's ceiling may be considered to be pretty high by some though. I wouldn't be surprised if a Hunter trade yielded a pick somewhere around where Norf originally bid for him - so mid 30's.
Fair point. He's a hard one to assess.
 

Mutt

Moderator
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Posts
7,715
Likes
14,230
Location
Mildura
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Footscray; Lakers
Moderator #40,278
Fair point. He's a hard one to assess.
Agreed.

The other thing I think worth noting when assessing the theoretical or potential value of players in a trade is the circumstances of clubs involved. For example, if Hunter is part of a Carlisle trade where we are very, very keen to get Carlisle, then we may let Hunter go for the equivalent of a fourth or fifth round pick - he'd end up being valued as steak knives. If however, the Carlisle trade doesn't materialise and Essendon or Richmond just want a straight swap of Hunter for a pick, we may get a mid to late second round pick for him. Context is important.
 

SeaWind

Team Captain
Suspended
Joined
May 5, 2015
Posts
533
Likes
412
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I hope we consider raiding Sydney.

Kieren Jack, Lewis Jetta, Heath Grundy and Daniel Robinson all out of contract in a completely botched salary cap. 2016 is even more mouthwatering with Hannebery and Parker.

We should at least make offers for these guys.
 

Dogsman16

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Posts
8,150
Likes
7,449
Location
Minas Morgul
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Having thought overnight about Hutchinson's proposed idea on FC last night on Rance, if we weren't to get Carlisle or Henderson (or if a ban scared us away from Carlisle), I could get around to doing a similar sort of F/A deal that Hutchy proposed last night, it really isn't as farfetched as it sounds.

Ok lets establish I'm not for giving him 1m dollar next season to take a paid holiday at all in fact its quite simply absolutely ludicrous but lets offer him the opportunity to take say a 6 - 9 month holiday from October 2015 (with financial incentives) so lets say like Tippett did in 2013 he misses the first half of the season. This gives us the opportunity...
  • to find out who are the other young 2 defenders who can and will partner Rance as our defensive spine (Talia/Roberts/Hamling/Z.Cordy).
  • It would also allow us in the meantime to offer Morris one last contract for the 2016 season as defensive cover in either the seniors (preferably) or the 2's if his spot is overtaken by Hamling/Z.Cordy
  • Obviously extra defensive depth keeps Roughead in the prefered ruck position.
  • Let's us keep our first rounder for outside speed/KPF depth whatever you want.
Halfway/3 quarters of the way through season we could then inject Rance into the senior side in the hope that we are competing for finals (we are in contention this year so their is no reason that we couldn't next season even without him).

We need to continue to be bold to strengthen our list. The greatest risk we can take is by taking no risks and whilst an undoubted risk that Rance with 6 months off may never reach the heights of yesteryear, its certainly an option we should definitely consider if all other options fail. Lets face it their is no point trading in KPD depth (we already have that) we need someone with potential A grade ability for seasons 2016 - 2020 and in my eyes that is either of Carlisle, Rance or Henderson (preference in that order).

Tom Boyd was the greatest risk our club has ever taken and yet the way Griffen is performing and how Tom Boyd has made our side look so much better we have the opportunity to take another risk that could help us win a premiership.

It's certainly an option we should consider if Carlisle negotiations fail as it gives our young defenders more opportunity as well as helps us keep our first rounder.
 

Yojimbo

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Posts
7,263
Likes
5,906
Location
AFLW athlete and man about town.
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Were any of the Yeo, Docherty etc trades similar?
Or Karnezis?
Sam Docherty- drafted pick 12, traded for pick 33. (bargain)
Jared Polec- drafted pick 5, traded out in complex three club deal, Port,
Bris and GWS. (complex Bargain).
Elliot Yeo- drafted pick 30, traded for pick 28 after pick swap with Coll,
pick 6 for 11 and 31.(massive bargain).
Patrick Karnezis- drafted pick 25, straight swap Jackson Paine. (cue vomit).
Billy Longer- drafted pick 8, traded Longer/48 for picks 25 and 41.(meh).

When players want to leave, clubs are like sharks and can smell blood in
the water as far away as Brisbane.
 

Mofra

Moderator
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Posts
40,122
Likes
99,459
Location
Footscray
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Footscray, The Exers
Moderator #40,282
Jack Watts has had 6 years of a career to find out his worth. Tom Boyd has somewhat proven (only glimpes at this stage) that he is worth pick 1. His value hasn't dropped.
Tom Boyd is getting the no 1 defender every week. He's 19 years old.

Our other 19 year old star, the Bont, is getting first tag.

I can't remember a time like this in our history. We flogged the supposed "best young list in the competition" (they were older than us on average) with arguably our best forward out (Strings) and our best player overall out (Libba).
 

Dogsman16

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Posts
8,150
Likes
7,449
Location
Minas Morgul
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Tom Boyd is getting the no 1 defender every week. He's 19 years old.

Our other 19 year old star, the Bont, is getting first tag.

I can't remember a time like this in our history. We flogged the supposed "best young list in the competition" (they were older than us on average) with arguably our best forward out (Strings) and our best player overall out (Libba).
Hugely exciting isn't it. Now is the time to launch at some experienced guns to help us win a premiership.
 

yebiga

Anglo Guilt - suck it up
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Posts
10,468
Likes
10,874
Location
Mens Gallery
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
There is a bit of under rating of hunter here
Nor am I sure we need Carlisle
But if push came to shove
Carlisle nominates us
We offer our likely pick 9/10 and hunter - dodoro will bitch and moan but come the dead line he will sign the paperwork

Hunter is a very good pick up for essendon
What we have is an abundance of his type and he has sufficient leg speed - more than hrovat

With all due respect his draft position is now entirely irrelevant
 

SeaWind

Team Captain
Suspended
Joined
May 5, 2015
Posts
533
Likes
412
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Having thought overnight about Hutchinson's proposed idea on FC last night on Rance, if we weren't to get Carlisle or Henderson (or if a ban scared us away from Carlisle), I could get around to doing a similar sort of F/A deal that Hutchy proposed last night, it really isn't as farfetched as it sounds.

Ok lets establish I'm not for giving him 1m dollar next season to take a paid holiday at all in fact its quite simply absolutely ludicrous but lets offer him the opportunity to take say a 6 - 9 month holiday from October 2015 (with financial incentives) so lets say like Tippett did in 2013 he misses the first half of the season. This gives us the opportunity...
  • to find out who are the other young 2 defenders who can and will partner Rance as our defensive spine (Talia/Roberts/Hamling/Z.Cordy).
  • It would also allow us in the meantime to offer Morris one last contract for the 2016 season as defensive cover in either the seniors (preferably) or the 2's if his spot is overtaken by Hamling/Z.Cordy
  • Obviously extra defensive depth keeps Roughead in the prefered ruck position.
  • Let's us keep our first rounder for outside speed/KPF depth whatever you want.
Halfway/3 quarters of the way through season we could then inject Rance into the senior side in the hope that we are competing for finals (we are in contention this year so their is no reason that we couldn't next season even without him).

We need to continue to be bold to strengthen our list. The greatest risk we can take is by taking no risks and whilst an undoubted risk that Rance with 6 months off may never reach the heights of yesteryear, its certainly an option we should definitely consider if all other options fail. Lets face it their is no point trading in KPD depth (we already have that) we need someone with potential A grade ability for seasons 2016 - 2020 and in my eyes that is either of Carlisle, Rance or Henderson (preference in that order).

Tom Boyd was the greatest risk our club has ever taken and yet the way Griffen is performing and how Tom Boyd has made our side look so much better we have the opportunity to take another risk that could help us win a premiership.

It's certainly an option we should consider if Carlisle negotiations fail as it gives our young defenders more opportunity as well as helps us keep our first rounder.
The Richmond Board ITKs are 100% certain Rance isn't joining another club. Make of that what you will.
 

Butane

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Posts
13,334
Likes
3,942
Location
.
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
The Richmond Board ITKs are 100% certain Rance isn't joining another club. Make of that what you will.
As I understand it, it's not really about money so even if another club did come in and offer him X amount Richmond wouldn't be more than 10%-20% off anyway and that won't change his position. It's a tricky one and I'm sure there is more to the story
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Mutt

Moderator
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Posts
7,715
Likes
14,230
Location
Mildura
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Footscray; Lakers
Moderator #40,288
As I understand it, it's not really about money so even if another club did come in and offer him X amount Richmond wouldn't be more than 10%-20% off anyway and that won't change his position. It's a tricky one and I'm sure there is more to the story
I think you are right Butane - isn't this more about whether he wants to play footy at all, rather than whether he wants to stay at Richmond or how much he is being paid? He's a reasonably recent convert to one of the fundamentalist Christian faiths iirc.
 

Norm De Guerre

Left of the dial.
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Posts
7,273
Likes
19,625
Location
Sharpening Occums Razor
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Australian Farnarkling XI
The Richmond Board ITKs are 100% certain Rance isn't joining another club. Make of that what you will.
If he leaves at all it'll be to spend time on the road proselytizing as part of his faith. Faith is a massive part of his families life.
 

threenewpadlocks

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Posts
10,623
Likes
13,258
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
It isn't the end of the world if we don't get a key forward at the end of this season. We're hardly going to be a flag threat next year.
In 2017, however, we should be a flag threat so don't be surprised if we can get a key defender like a James Frawley scenario in free agency at the end of 2016.
 

immortalmike

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Posts
14,191
Likes
23,580
Location
West Footscray
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
It isn't the end of the world if we don't get a key forward at the end of this season. We're hardly going to be a flag threat next year.
In 2017, however, we should be a flag threat so don't be surprised if we can get a key defender like a James Frawley scenario in free agency at the end of 2016.
Oh ye of little faith.
 

TBOW

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Posts
2,305
Likes
2,271
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Just out of interest would people consider hunter and Hrovat for Carlisle ie no picks??
I'm not opposed to offering up players in order to try to keep our first rounder.

I actually think Fronk or someone mentioned that Essendon are more interested in players than picks, which makes sense considering the draft sanctions and where their list is at.
So it might be achievable.

But it will not be a matter of us picking 2 guys to palm off & we would probably have to give up someone we would rather keep.

Hunter & JJ plus a second might be closer to the mark.
 

Dogsman16

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Posts
8,150
Likes
7,449
Location
Minas Morgul
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I'm not opposed to offering up players in order to try to keep our first rounder.

I actually think Fronk or someone mentioned that Essendon are more interested in players than picks, which makes sense considering the draft sanctions and where their list is at.
So it might be achievable.

But it will not be a matter of us picking 2 guys to palm off & we would probably have to give up someone we would rather keep.

Hunter & JJ plus a second might be closer to the mark.
JJ is untouchable now!!
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Posts
2,073
Likes
2,331
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I wouldn't go near Carlisle with our first rounder. I'm not risking our rebuild on two asada boys. Anything less than the first pick though and I'd look at it. But conflicted. High risk high reward.
Agree with most of this, but even if it was less then a 1st rounder, I'd still pass. We've already risked a lot of money on Boyd, which I've always thought was a very necessary risk even before he was traded in. I don't feel even close to the same way about Carlisle at all. I worry we could be placing salary cap pressure in the future for somebody that may not play for two years. I'd rather go with the safer option in Henderson (or even go to the draft) despite the fact Carlisle is younger and will probably end up being a better footballer.
 

Dogsman16

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Posts
8,150
Likes
7,449
Location
Minas Morgul
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Agree with most of this, but even if it was less then a 1st rounder, I'd still pass. We've already risked a lot of money on Boyd, which I've always thought was a very necessary risk even before he was traded in. I don't feel even close to the same way about Carlisle at all. I worry we could be placing salary cap pressure in the future for somebody that may not play for two years. I'd rather go with the safer option in Henderson (or even go to the draft) despite the fact Carlisle is younger and will probably end up being a better footballer.
Disagree need another A grade player to go to the next level and to make sure we are a successful as possible so that our guns players stick around in the hope of finals/premierships. Also we allocate money to our stars and if our 15 - 30 group (so not A graders or even B Graders players) (we then get pretty good picks for those players who want out) leave then we can trade in players or use draft picks to cover their losses.
 

BRWB

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Posts
14,792
Likes
21,549
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Agree with most of this, but even if it was less then a 1st rounder, I'd still pass. We've already risked a lot of money on Boyd, which I've always thought was a very necessary risk even before he was traded in. I don't feel even close to the same way about Carlisle at all. I worry we could be placing salary cap pressure in the future for somebody that may not play for two years. I'd rather go with the safer option in Henderson (or even go to the draft) despite the fact Carlisle is younger and will probably end up being a better footballer.
If Carlisle is rubbed out he doesn't get paid so cap pressure is a non issue. His absence would be though hence why I would not pay a 1st rd pick.
 

Dogsman16

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Posts
8,150
Likes
7,449
Location
Minas Morgul
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
If Carlisle is rubbed out he doesn't get paid so cap pressure is a non issue. His absence would be though hence why I would not pay a 1st rd pick.
Essendon surely wouldn't keep that first rounder they got if the player they traded gets a ban. AFL would find some compensation for clubs who had former essendon players.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom