Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

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Pannalstaroz

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Just a thought guys, when discussing delisted KPD's, the thing that made a player unsuccessful in one system may make them successful in another (ours). Talia didn't suit our system because he's wants to play one on one. Hamling is clearly more suited to our team defence than Geelong's more structured one on one defence (lack of opportunity in a great defensive 6 no doubt didn't help); his one on one strength doesn't get as highlighted as it might elsewhere.

My point is, look for the players whose athleticism and play reading ability which may have been a deficiency at another club, could suit our system. Does Cameron Giles have athleticism? Speed? Anticipation? Could the things that made him unsuccessful at Carlton, help him with us?
 

BRWB

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Just a thought guys, when discussing delisted KPD's, the thing that made a player unsuccessful in one system may make them successful in another (ours). Talia didn't suit our system because he's wants to play one on one. Hamling is clearly more suited to our team defence than Geelong's more structured one on one defence (lack of opportunity in a great defensive 6 no doubt didn't help); his one on one strength doesn't get as highlighted as it might elsewhere.

My point is, look for the players whose athleticism and play reading ability which may have been a deficiency at another club, could suit our system. Does Cameron Giles have athleticism? Speed? Anticipation? Could the things that made him unsuccessful at Carlton, help him with us?
C Giles seems to be Long John Silver. Rookie punt perhaps, couldn't be worse than our rookie effort last year
 

Aldo

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Just a thought guys, when discussing delisted KPD's, the thing that made a player unsuccessful in one system may make them successful in another (ours). Talia didn't suit our system because he's wants to play one on one. Hamling is clearly more suited to our team defence than Geelong's more structured one on one defence (lack of opportunity in a great defensive 6 no doubt didn't help); his one on one strength doesn't get as highlighted as it might elsewhere.

My point is, look for the players whose athleticism and play reading ability which may have been a deficiency at another club, could suit our system. Does Cameron Giles have athleticism? Speed? Anticipation? Could the things that made him unsuccessful at Carlton, help him with us?
Yeah, Giles would fit that profile almost to a tee. Not great one on one but was a great interceptor and rebounder for a guy of his height at u18 level. Plays off his man a lot, has agility and great footskills. Got found out often as a shutdown defender in the VFL level though.

Reckon he'd be a great fit for our playing style. The persistent navicular problems the main concern though.
 

Barking Mad

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Ok problem solved for our KPB. Granty out of retirement....hell he's only 3 years older than Fletch.

On a serious note, a shame J Grant looks like he's gone. Yes his foot skills were a bit ordinary but his quick hands really assisted at times last year. A tough one to match up also given his height, speed and sticky ET hands. As our team improves I'd see him improving and being a handful. A pity it so long for him to really give us a glimpse.
 

TheHoneyBadger

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What's the bet we get at least one more bloke under 175cm short??

Just coz he is best available and adds some cr@p that apparently the other dwarfs we have don't.

I don't want to hear "best available" this year, use every pick we choose to on young or rehashed KPS.

If they fail they fail we do not need anymore smalls unless we are building a bloody army of Ewoks to fight the Empire!!
Just for what it's worth, I'd be okay with this.
 

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go you pups

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Just a thought guys, when discussing delisted KPD's, the thing that made a player unsuccessful in one system may make them successful in another (ours). Talia didn't suit our system because he's wants to play one on one. Hamling is clearly more suited to our team defence than Geelong's more structured one on one defence (lack of opportunity in a great defensive 6 no doubt didn't help); his one on one strength doesn't get as highlighted as it might elsewhere.

My point is, look for the players whose athleticism and play reading ability which may have been a deficiency at another club, could suit our system. Does Cameron Giles have athleticism? Speed? Anticipation? Could the things that made him unsuccessful at Carlton, help him with us?
I'm thinking one of those Port Adelaide forward/ruck types in Harvey, Shaw or Redden may be handy for etc or anyone else who fits that type of player. Looking at the draft, Weideman and a few other top key forward prospects will probably be gone by our picks in the 20s, but there should be a heap of key defenders and raw project rucks still on the board, even if they're a 2nd round reach like Coughlan/Brown etc.

I reckon find a ruck or forward as a DFA and pick the best KPDs when our 2nd rounders come around in the draft. Hopefully DMac falls to a rookie pick, but 51 may be needed for him I guess.

Giles's foot is stuffed, he'd be baggage imo, best look elsewhere.
 

dergert

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Look guys. Jmac tried, sure he put some offers around for the betterment of our list and draft position. Other clubs can say no and as we've seen today there is nothing we can do about it.

I wonder who we will sign as a dfa?
 
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I'm thinking one of those Port Adelaide forward/ruck types in Harvey, Shaw or Redden may be handy for etc or anyone else who fits that type of player. Looking at the draft, Weideman and a few other top key forward prospects will probably be gone by our picks in the 20s, but there should be a heap of key defenders and raw project rucks still on the board, even if they're a 2nd round reach like Coughlan/Brown etc.

I reckon find a ruck or forward as a DFA and pick the best KPDs when our 2nd rounders come around in the draft. Hopefully DMac falls to a rookie pick, but 51 may be needed for him I guess.

Giles's foot is stuffed, he'd be baggage imo, best look elsewhere.
Agree with all of this. Mature forward/ruck as a DFA (Redden/Harvey) for coverage and target key defenders at two of our selections in the draft. Track our stocks over the course of the year, re-assess what we need, and target whatever we're lacking through trades next year. The benefit of not being overly active in trades this year is that we're now in a good position: provided we do bring in at least one key defender through the draft, we've likely got young, promising prospects in every position on the ground and thus are well placed to trade out some picks to fill needs next year. Draft all mids again though and the strategy doesn't look so great.
 

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http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2015-10-22/list-manager-reviews-bulldogs-trade-period

JMac says we really tried to upgrade that pick 11. Clubs were reluctant.
Pick 51 sounds like it'll be used.
We wanna move that 4th round pick next year around, as well as the Carlton one. Planning ahead with the points system by the sounds of it.

All explained well.
Yeah I thought having 3 4th rounders next year may be handy for teams looking for picks for points.

We may need picks ourselves if we have a F/S on the board.
 
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Did you miss the "experience profile " part of the post and did you also miss the experience ladder from other threads?
Here's a hint, the less experience you have the more inconsistent you are. I didn't make the rules I'm just stating the statistical trend.
Of course there are outliers, and I hope we can continue to be one, but you can't outrun history. Be prepared and try not to lose your shit if it happens and we miss the 8.
Are the statistics you place so much faith in taken from now or the end of next season? I reckon we might have three or four players better than 08 hawks at comparable age....a lot better (19,20,21 yr olds)
 

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Agree with all of this. Mature forward/ruck as a DFA (Redden/Harvey) for coverage and target key defenders at two of our selections in the draft. Track our stocks over the course of the year, re-assess what we need, and target whatever we're lacking through trades next year. The benefit of not being overly active in trades this year is that we're now in a good position: provided we do bring in at least one key defender through the draft, we've likely got young, promising prospects in every position on the ground and thus are well placed to trade out some picks to fill needs next year. Draft all mids again though and the strategy doesn't look so great.
Only thing is IIRC, we have 36 on the senior list as we had 40 last season minus Cordy, Grant, Talia, Fuller and Darley (no one else left yeah?), in comes Suckling. So yeah 36.

We have 4 picks 20, 21, 30 and 51. If we take a DFA on before the draft, then 51 becomes redundant, if we use 51 it's probably on DMac.

If 51 is used on DMac then we would have to look at mature aged KPPs in the rookie draft probably and they may be hot property there and we could miss out on someone we may be interested in rookieing. I am in the DMac as a rookie camp, but who knows where he sits on the draft board currenly.

Anyways, see how it pans out over the next couple of weeks and who gets invited to preseason training etc.
 

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One other comment. With a lot of clubs trading picks and future picks, there might be less competition next year for certain identified targets that we have...
Correct

And with the draft being stronger and teams like Geelong and Collingwood trading themselves out of next years first round, draft picks may be valued more next year and we could hit the jackpot on a need, with their club looking to top up.
 

Pugz89

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Fourth round picks worth bugger all though. That's the issue. Already have carlton's and swans'.
The three fourth rounders we have likely end up being valued at around 400 points altogether, so a pick in the late 30s-early 40s to a side just looking for points. Now if you add this to other assets it allows some nice upgrades to occur - for example, if our second rounder next year ends up around 32, it would be beneficial for a team looking for points to give us a pick around 19-20 for these four picks. All of a sudden we've got a really nice pick without giving up much. It's a hypothetical example, but it's entirely feasible assuming the right strings are pulled and the right calls made.

Gone are the days where stockpiling fourth rounders is useless. These can be significant assets for teams with academy selections now given the DVI.
 

immortalmike

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Are the statistics you place so much faith in taken from now or the end of next season? I reckon we might have three or four players better than 08 hawks at comparable age....a lot better (19,20,21 yr olds)
We need almost all our best 22 at or past 100 games to be anywhere near that side. They had 17 players with over 150 games experience, with a further 4 with 100 or more. The 2010 Collingwood side was another that was also relatively young and inexperienced and they had 15 with over 150 and 6 with 100 or more.

Currently our list has 6 players with more than 100 games experience, Boyd, Murphy, Morris, Minson, Picken and Suckling, with only Dahlhaus, Crameri, Grant (if he stays), Wood, Roughead, Wallis, and Libba a chance to reach 100 by the end of next year (the latter two only if we play finals and they play every game). That's 13 players (some who may not be best 22) as a best case scenario with 100ish games experience by the end of next year. That still leaves us nowhere near two of the least experienced flag winners of the modern era. They are already statistical outliers, we would be statistical improbabilities at absolute best case scenario, in reality winning the flag next year is nigh impossible.
2017 however, is a very different kettle of fish. Our window starts then.
 

Pugz89

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The three fourth rounders we have likely end up being valued at around 400 points altogether, so a pick in the late 30s-early 40s to a side just looking for points. Now if you add this to other assets it allows some nice upgrades to occur - for example, if our second rounder next year ends up around 32, it would be beneficial for a team looking for points to give us a pick around 19-20 for these four picks. All of a sudden we've got a really nice pick without giving up much. It's a hypothetical example, but it's entirely feasible assuming the right strings are pulled and the right calls made.

Gone are the days where stockpiling fourth rounders is useless. These can be significant assets for teams with academy selections now given the DVI.
I see the logic, I just thought anything passed pick 50ish was worth like 40pts or so. Cheers for clearing it up.
 
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