Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

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Butane

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Bonty looks significantly taller than Crameri - Darley already looks a good size too.
I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL 'YOUSE' - BONTEMPELLI IS GROWING EVERY DAY.


(My theory is he was always taller than quoted. Don't know if there was any funny buggers going on or he's just grown a shit load in the past a couple of months)
 

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The problem with Jones is that Morris has better forward's instincts.
I suppose it's easy to write throwaway lines without supporting facts.

In 2011, Jones had 43 contested marks in 20 games, when we won only 9 games.
Yes, we had Hall, but in the 6 games that year that Hall didn't play, Jones took 14 cms, on par with his average for the year.
Here's a breakdown from that year, as an example:
Player/club/contested marks/games played/games won by club
Tippett/Adel/41/18/7
Cloke/Coll/95/25/20
Fyfe/Frem/43/21/9
Taylor/Geel/38/24/19
Pods/Geel/57/23/19
Hawkins/Geel/42/18/19
Franklin/Hawt/39/22/18
Hale/Hawt/35/20/18
Petrie/North/49/21/10
Riewoldt/Rich/41/22/8.5
McEvoy/StK/51/22/12.5
Riewoldt/StK/28/22/12/5
Goodes/Syd/44/24/12.5
Reid/45/23/12.5
Cox/WCE/42/25/17
Lynch/WCE/40/24/17
Darling/WCE/51/23/17
Hall/WB/19/15/9
Jones/WB/43/20/9
Gia/WB/19/20/9
Hall, Gia and N.Riewoldt were well down the list, but I've added them for context.

Gee, Jones got really lucky that year, 43 times, in spite of his supposed lack of forward instincts.
And seeing he outperformed Hawkins, Franklin and Lynch, when they all had Pods, Roughead and Darling alongisde them in virtually every game, and were in top 4 sides, they mustn't have much forward instincts either.

This year, he took 35 in 19 games, when we won only 7, and of those 31 were in games where Campbell did not play and he had no other genuine key forward as support.

For comparison, Roughead at fullback this year was next best with 33, then Addison was third with 16 (Minson had 15).

For further comparison, when Chris Grant started out in his first 4-5 seasons, he had Glenn Coleman, Danny Delre, occasionally Adrian Campbell and Jon Ballantyne, and later Ilija Grgic as fellow talls.

But yeah, I'm sure if Morris was moved to the forward line he'd get better figures than those, because he's not, you know, Liam Jones.
 

_M_16_

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I suppose it's easy to write throwaway lines without supporting facts.

In 2011, Jones had 43 contested marks in 20 games, when we won only 9 games.
Yes, we had Hall, but in the 6 games that year that Hall didn't play, Jones took 14 cms, on par with his average for the year.
Here's a breakdown from that year, as an example:
Player/club/contested marks/games played/games won by club
Tippett/Adel/41/18/7
Cloke/Coll/95/25/20
Fyfe/Frem/43/21/9
Taylor/Geel/38/24/19
Pods/Geel/57/23/19
Hawkins/Geel/42/18/19
Franklin/Hawt/39/22/18
Hale/Hawt/35/20/18
Petrie/North/49/21/10
Riewoldt/Rich/41/22/8.5
McEvoy/StK/51/22/12.5
Riewoldt/StK/28/22/12/5
Goodes/Syd/44/24/12.5
Reid/45/23/12.5
Cox/WCE/42/25/17
Lynch/WCE/40/24/17
Darling/WCE/51/23/17
Hall/WB/19/15/9
Jones/WB/43/20/9
Gia/WB/19/20/9
Hall, Gia and N.Riewoldt were well down the list, but I've added them for context.

Gee, Jones got really lucky that year, 43 times, in spite of his supposed lack of forward instincts.
And seeing he outperformed Hawkins, Franklin and Lynch, when they all had Pods, Roughead and Darling alongisde them in virtually every game, and were in top 4 sides, they mustn't have much forward instincts either.

This year, he took 35 in 19 games, when we won only 7, and of those 31 were in games where Campbell did not play and he had no other genuine key forward as support.

For comparison, Roughead at fullback this year was next best with 33, then Addison was third with 16 (Minson had 15).

For further comparison, when Chris Grant started out in his first 4-5 seasons, he had Glenn Coleman, Danny Delre, occasionally Adrian Campbell and Jon Ballantyne, and later Ilija Grgic as fellow talls.

But yeah, I'm sure if Morris was moved to the forward line he'd get better figures than those, because he's not, you know, Liam Jones.
Interesting statistics. I don't think many are doubting Jones marking abilities. Comparing a defender to a forward is also absurd. The only issue with those stats, is that it doesn't tell you where they were taken. Jones seems to get most of them up the ground. I still feel the closer to goal he is, the less contested marks he seems to get / win. If he got more closer to goal where it counts most, surely he could be a 40-50 goal a year forward. Would be curious to see how he went in another team will a fully functional forward line, where the pressure is spread between all the players.

Plus marks alone is no measure of a players instincts. Isn't it based on ability to read the play, getting in the right position, finding space, knowing what your team mate is doing or will do, reading off your direct opponent and knowing how to beat him, etc?
 

immortalmike

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Every player will play wherever they are needed. Jones has had brief stints down back and playing behind the ball. If we think there are better forward prospects, or better match-ups, or better forward structures at any time that don't include Jones, then Liam had better be able to play down back or he'll be racking up a lot of VFL games.

As for panicking and turning forwards into backs, I don't advocate turning Jones into a defender, but the post I was responding to suggested we have forward options but a distinct lack of key defenders and no-one who could be sent to a key defensive post. Jones is certainly someone who could play CHB, or maybe even full-back if needed.

I'd like to see us persevere with Jones as a forward but if we need a key back and Liam is not very effective as a forward at the time, I don't see why he shouldn't play down back for as long as needed.

The coach has faith that Redpath can play AFL football. That's good enough for me at present.
I've only seen Jones play behind the ball once under McCartney and he was subbed off shortly thereafter. If he is to make it he needs to be played forward first and foremost but I suspect we are in furious agreement on that.

I think in a pinch he may be okay as a CHB but honestly I'd be incredibly worried about him being worked over by a much fitter opponent. He'd be a decent loose man, much like Chris (obviously not as good).

The coaches faith doesn't quite sway me when it comes to Redpath, good luck to the guy but honestly at this stage of his career he makes Mulligan look like Carey.
 
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Interesting statistics. I don't think many are doubting Jones marking abilities. Comparing a defender to a forward is also absurd. The only issue with those stats, is that it doesn't tell you where they were taken. Jones seems to get most of them up the ground. I still feel the closer to goal he is, the less contested marks he seems to get / win. If he got more closer to goal where it counts most, surely he could be a 40-50 goal a year forward. Would be curious to see how he went in another team will a fully functional forward line, where the pressure is spread between all the players.

Plus marks alone is no measure of a players instincts. Isn't it based on ability to read the play, getting in the right position, finding space, knowing what your team mate is doing or will do, reading off your direct opponent and knowing how to beat him, etc?
Yep, they're all valid points, I just couldn't be bothered collating other stats as well.

It was mainly a response to a glib oneliner.

Also, I didn't make the comparison to Morris, I was replying to that comparison.

Jones had some breakout games early this season, and personally I think with Crameri into the side and Grant hopefully gaining consistency, the three of them should be able to work off each other next year. Plus Campbell and Stringer as other forward options, I would hope Jones can benefit from that.

As far as I'm concerned, he's a forward, and has shown that he knows what to do, just not consistently enough. Whether he works up the ground or closer to goal, I'm confident his career will pan out just fine when he has some consistent support. It's easy to pot a kid in his 2nd or 3rd full season when he's the sole KPF focus, and struggles. Let's see how he goes with genuine support.
 

Dry Rot

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Plus marks alone is no measure of a players instincts. Isn't it based on ability to read the play, getting in the right position, finding space, knowing what your team mate is doing or will do, reading off your direct opponent and knowing how to beat him, etc?
Quite.

Watch how say Stringer plays and Jones.

One has forward's instincts, the other is just tall who can take a contested mark.
 
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